Scum has various outstanding ships.

The problem is, it has NO good escorts or synergy. Think about it.

Republic? Always depend on V-19s.
Rebellion? Always a middling health filler around the corner that can do owie.
Empire? Must I say it?
First Order? Not ONE bad chassis.
Resistance? Baby you know its smalls are out of this world.
Separatists? Great options. Vultures and Hyenas are literally never, ever unreasonable choices.

But what about Scum?

Z-95s are butt. Awful dial, missile slot tax it can BARELY use.
Mining Guild TIE? Cool, less agile TIE fighter in a gas cloud meta, ok awesome. Except not.
Kihraxz? Okay, not a bad choice, but very susceptible to crits and burn-down. Good ace tho.

But for real. What good flankers and escorts does this faction have? Half of its ships are straight up medium or large base and they don't fly well together. They just don't. The Fang ain't no escort don't even try.

1 hour ago, heychadwick said:

My best list is 3 K's, Scyk with Tractor, and Misthunter.

😥 Poor Tractor Beam Scyk… Can't reliably set up larger targets anymore for the others to pound...

30 minutes ago, Matanui3 said:

Did someone say something happened to Cikatro Vizago? What rule did they change there?

He has to take an upgrade's restrictions/requirements box into account now. No more cloaking large bases or Rigged dropping smalls.

22 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

He has to take an upgrade's restrictions/requirements box into account now. No more cloaking large bases or Rigged dropping smalls.

Wow, and it's not like anybody was using him to do that after the novelty wore off in the first place. Now he really has no use.

56 minutes ago, Matanui3 said:

Did someone say something happened to Cikatro Vizago? What rule did they change there?

Latest Rules Reference 1.05 from 18th sept

Quote

SPECIFIC CARD QUESTIONS Q: Can Cikatro Vizago [󲁒] exchange an 󲁘 upgrade card onto a ship that could not normally equip it (such as equipping a Stealth Device to a Z-95 Headhunter and then exchanging it with a Rigged Cargo Chute on a YV-666)? A: No. Cikatro Vizago cannot move the Rigged Cargo Chute to the Z-95 due to the Z-95 not meeting the “Medium or large ship” restriction on Rigged Cargo Chute, as described in Upgrade Cards.

no more scummy shenanigans

Means also Cikatro can no longer move small ship upgrades onto Huge ships.

Scum has so many ships but so many of them just are not up to putting in a 'competitive' squad.

the worst of them are jumpmaster5k, Z-95, M3-A intercepter and the IG-88 Aggressor (has not yet found a home in 2.0)

Then we have... 'ok' ships that have a standout pilot such as mining guid tie (Captain Seevor), G1-S Starfighter (4-LOM), HWK-290 (previously Palob but now Torkil Mux), Firespray (Boba Fett), Quadrajet (Previously Jack Gunrunner now Unkar Plutt, Customised YT-1300 (Han).

Next we have the 'solid ship' with a few playable good pilots ... Escape Craft (Lando), Khiraxz Fighter (previously Talonbane now generic Cartel Marauder), YV-666 (Latts or Bossk), Scurrg Bomber (Sol or Nym but previously Lok).

Finally at the top end we have the ' best' ships and pilots ... Fang Fighter (Fenn and Old Teroch), Starviper (BSA's with cracksot or Guri with advanced sensors), Y-Wing (Kavil), Kimogila (all are pretty decent), Shadowcaster (best scum ship right now imo... followed closely by the star vipers)

Of course you CAN build a winning squad with any of the playable scum ships. It just isn't easy to without the synergy and/or passive dice mods to help with dive variance. Try and build a scum squad without star vipers, fang fighters or generic Khiraxz Fighters. It's not easy.

In extended Scum gets Maul crew for Ketsu and Shadowcaster title... add fearless and you have a tanky bully that does impressive work. Add two ships to taste... Kavil and Old Teroch or two Black Sun Assassin StarVipers with Crackshot are great. You can go with a 4 ship list jank style if you downgrade Ketsu to Sabine or use 4 small ships (one probably Capt Seevor or Unkar Putt as one of the 4) but you will need a decent amount of luck to fight thru the numerous passive mods the top tier squads have.

In Hyperspace you have less options but between Fang Fighters, Starvipers and Captaincies Seevor you should be ok... just get really good at flying it and cross your fingers those evade dice are hot

If u r a casual player then carry on as you were. Scum is fun its just not as consistent as you would like. Scum can win against anything if flown well. Its not easy tho. Be ready to put in the work to get really good flying your scum jank and revel in the surprised looks of players you beat.

It's a pity because cloaking YTs was silly fun. Not good, but fun.

Anyway, for those interested in my points model, would this make scum playable?

Bonus round: Illicit Upgrades:

30 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

😥 Poor Tractor Beam Scyk… Can't reliably set up larger targets anymore for the others to pound...

Mine might be doing alright...

IT’S RAILGUN TIME!

Tansarii Point Veteran (32)
Predator (2)
Tractor Beam (2)

Ship total: 36 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 2

Tansarii Point Veteran (32)
Predator (2)
Tractor Beam (2)

Ship total: 36 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 2

Zuckuss (45)
Trick Shot (4)
Passive Sensors (3)
0-0-0 (5)
Mist Hunter (2)
Jamming Beam (0)

Ship total: 59 Half Points: 30 Threshold: 5

Captain Seevor (30)
Elusive (3)

Ship total: 33 Half Points: 17 Threshold: 2

Foreman Proach (32)
Elusive (3)

Ship total: 35 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 2


Total: 199

22 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

Latest Rules Reference 1.05 from 18th sept

no more scummy shenanigans

Means also Cikatro can no longer move small ship upgrades onto Huge ships.

Though you can still use him to put a 2nd Deadman's Switch on a Kihraxz and shoot it with R5-TK. It's a stupid combo which I'm still dedicated to trying soon. >:)

Illicits

I think what Scum's illicits need is faction-specific pricing. Illicits should simply be more expensive for other factions, and cheap for Scum. That's a decent boost to one of their faction-defining features. Handbreak Han broke Inertial Dampeners for ships like Dalan's Kimogila, but it doesn't have to be deal-breakingly expensive for scum, just for Rebel. Deadman's Switch and Cybernetics should be a point cheaper for scummy users. Etc.

Add that to an across-the-board points reassessment (particularly taking the new nerfs into account), and you've got a restored faction. Scum's problem is that Sauron's eye is pretty narrowly focused elsewhere always.

The Real Problem

Right now FFG has an understandably, but offensively, large stiffy for its clone wars factions. If it ever gets over the thrill of walking around in spandex and scaring children with its new factions, hopefully Scum will start getting attention again (as well as a few rebel & empire ships IMO). New ships aren't going to come out for the core three as often as for the mini-factions, but they can still keep those factions in mind when balancing points. Shiny new toys shouldn't detract from the game as a whole.

I think it would be a mistake for FFG to forget its core players from first edition. If they keep pandering this single-mindedly to the new factions, their old core will have a choice: convert to just the new factions, or leave the game. That's not a game of chicken I want them to play.

37 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

Means also Cikatro can no longer move small ship upgrades onto Huge ships.

I think me asking them about it on the Huge ship live stream is what triggered the ruling.

2 minutes ago, Wazat said:

Right now FFG has an understandably, but offensively, large stiffy for its clone wars factions.

Resistance and FO too...

😠

@ClassicalMoser May I ask why Boba, Fenn, and Old T are going up? From what I’ve seen, it doesn’t seem warranted.

For a while FO was the "sickman of x-wing", but they're doing much better now. Looks like it's Scum's turn, except it's been Scum's turn for a while now. FO just looked worse off so Scum didn't seem to be at the bottom of the pile.

10 minutes ago, Wazat said:

For a while FO was the "sickman of x-wing", but they're doing much better now. Looks like it's Scum's turn, except it's been Scum's turn for a while now. FO just looked worse off so Scum didn't seem to be at the bottom of the pile.

FO was hurting from a small ship pool, not capability. The entire faction is almost nothing but power pieces that (other than Null and Hyperspace Tracking NPE) haven't been hit negatively since they were released...

49 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Resistance and FO too...

😠

I am betting that we’ll see a mod for large (and possibly medium) ships that gives a SLAM action, possibly with a charge or 2. And if that’s the case, then any Scum large with a mod and illicit would be able to take the Coaxium.

But yes, as it stands now, that card is a giant, steaming “****-you!” to the Scum. Both as an illicit, and in the artwork.

2 hours ago, SabineKey said:

@ClassicalMoser May I ask why Boba, Fenn, and Old T are going up? From what I’ve seen, it doesn’t seem warranted.

They go up less than most I5-6 pilots (e.g. Soontir at 55, Vader and Kylo at 70). This brings them more in line with what initiative scaling should look like.

But in truth, they actually are the most consistently-performing pilots in the scum faction. This isn’t me picking and choosing what I think needs to be improved. It’s strictly algorithmic from listfortress data.

As in film, Fett’s death has been greatly exaggerated.

Also note that those are the ONLY 3 scum pilots getting an increase. The couple of points will be MORE than made up elsewhere in your list, and more importantly, you can build a list without them and not feel like you’re shooting yourself in the foot.

17 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

They go up less than most I5-6 pilots (e.g. Soontir at 55, Vader and Kylo at 70). This brings them more in line with what initiative scaling should look like.

But in truth, they actually are the most consistently-performing pilots in the scum faction. This isn’t me picking and choosing what I think needs to be improved. It’s strictly algorithmic from listfortress data.

As in film, Fett’s death has been greatly exaggerated.

Also note that those are the ONLY 3 scum pilots getting an increase. The couple of points will be MORE than made up elsewhere in your list, and more importantly, you can build a list without them and not feel like you’re shooting yourself in the foot.

Okay. Would still recommend leaving them be.

Ah right, before I forget snapshot exists

New Squadron

(30) Ahhav [Modified TIE/ln Fighter]
(7) Snap Shot
Points: 37

(30) Captain Seevor [Modified TIE/ln Fighter]
(3) Fearless???????
Points: 33

(25) Mining Guild Surveyor [Modified TIE/ln Fighter]
(7) Snap Shot
Points: 32

(25) Mining Guild Surveyor [Modified TIE/ln Fighter]
(7) Snap Shot
Points: 32

(25) Mining Guild Surveyor [Modified TIE/ln Fighter]
(7) Snap Shot
Points: 32

(25) Mining Guild Surveyor [Modified TIE/ln Fighter]
(7) Snap Shot
Points: 32

Total points: 198

4 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Resistance and FO too...

😠

Lets face it. Scum illicits are not exclusive to scum. Feels like scums unique identity has suffered since 2.0 dropped.

FFG def made some mistakes with scum.

1. Moldy crow title was only released in the rebel conversion kit. Not having it in scum conversion which has hawk pilots was sad.

2. Han gunner was simply too cheap to begin with. Then increasing his cost and marauder title and boba fett all at once was overkill and has nerfed him out of the game all together. I feel sad that I bought the scum falcon to get Han gunner.

3. Points adjustments have secured scum at the bottom of the seven factions. This is not a screw up by ffg but a result of them nerfing scums best stuff. As a scum only player this makes me sad.

Scum needs some love and soon. Contraband Cybernetics is the only illicit worth the points.

4 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Anyway, for those interested in my points model, would this make scum playable?

Your first pilot, Laetin, is a Scyk pilot, not Z-95.

36 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Your first pilot, Laetin, is a Scyk pilot, not Z-95.

Laetin would be a terrible Z-95 pilot...

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

Ah right, before I forget snapshot exists

New Squadron

(30) Ahhav [Modified TIE/ln Fighter]
(7) Snap Shot
Points: 37

(30) Captain Seevor [Modified TIE/ln Fighter]
(3) Fearless???????
Points: 33

(25) Mining Guild Surveyor [Modified TIE/ln Fighter]
(7) Snap Shot
Points: 32

(25) Mining Guild Surveyor [Modified TIE/ln Fighter]
(7) Snap Shot
Points: 32

(25) Mining Guild Surveyor [Modified TIE/ln Fighter]
(7) Snap Shot
Points: 32

(25) Mining Guild Surveyor [Modified TIE/ln Fighter]
(7) Snap Shot
Points: 32

Total points: 198

What is your reasoning behind giving Seevor Fearless? For it to proc, you are dangerously close if not in the enemy’s bullseye, turning off Seevor’s ability.

38 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

What is your reasoning behind giving Seevor Fearless? For it to proc, you are dangerously close if not in the enemy’s bullseye, turning off Seevor’s ability.

No reason

It's late and I can't think right

Hence the "???????"

3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

No reason

It's late and I can't think right

Hence the "???????"

Fair. I was curious if you had a “counter programming” idea going on that I was missing.

1 hour ago, SabineKey said:

Fair. I was curious if you had a “counter programming” idea going on that I was missing.

Elusive is always a good “what the ****” talent for me. Its saved Guri’s bacon more times than her shiny *** would like to admit.