Suppose a ship with afterburners completes speed 3 maneuver and ends just outside range 2 of a ship with Snap Shot. It triggers afterburners and boosts into range 2. Can the ship with Snap Shot shoot it?
Essentially I am asking is the “after an enemy ship executes a maneuver” window still open even though they have boosted? The boost happened during the “after executing a maneuver” window. Is the window to trigger abilities off the original triggerstill open after the boost is resolved?
No, per the RR:
• After : The effect resolves immediately following the timing specified.
So if the ship is not in arc/range immediately after doing their maneuver, then Snap Shot does not trigger.
Keep in mind that if they do a maneuver and the ship has afterburners AND they have initiative, they could potentially boost out of range/arc... negating Snap Shot, so always make sure to take initiative if you have Snap Shot equipped.
Edited by shaunmerritt
2 hours ago, shaunmerritt said:No, per the RR:
• After : The effect resolves immediately following the timing specified.
So if the ship is not in arc/range immediately after doing their maneuver, then Snap Shot does not trigger.
Keep in mind that if they do a maneuver and the ship has afterburners AND they have initiative, they could potentially boost out of range/arc... negating Snap Shot, so always make sure to take initiative if you have Snap Shot equipped.
I disagree with that. Snap Shot triggers after executing a maneuver, regardless of if the ship is in range/arc or not. You won't even measure range or arc until you perform the bonus attack. If the ship with afterburners is controlled by the First Player, then afterburners would trigger before Snap Shot and if they boost into arc at range 2, then when Snap Shot triggers they are a valid target for the attack.
It all depends on who is First Player.
So... do I measure range for snap shot before I add it to the queue? Or do I add it to the queue and measure range when I begin resolving it?
19 minutes ago, Rettere said:So... do I measure range for snap shot before I add it to the queue? Or do I add it to the queue and measure range when I begin resolving it?
Your guess is as good as anyone's.
That ruling is super messy, because it implies that all measured things are measured by both players before either starts activating things, which is... awkward.
38 minutes ago, Rettere said:So... do I measure range for snap shot before I add it to the queue? Or do I add it to the queue and measure range when I begin resolving it?
I'm going to say no. The only requirement to trigger Snap Shot is "After an enemy ship executes a maneuver"
During Engagement each ship "may" perform an attack, and it is only *while* performing an attack do you measure arc and range.
Quote1. Declare Target: During this step, the attacking player identifies and names the defender of the attack.
a. Measure Range: The attacking player measures range from the attacker to any number of enemy ships and determines which enemy ships are in which of its arcs.
b. Choose Weapon: The attacking player chooses one of the attacker’s primary or special weapons.
c. Declare Defender: The attacking player chooses an enemy ship to be the defender. The defender must meet the requirements defined by the weapon.
d. Pay Costs: The attacker must pay any costs for performing the attack.
a. Attack begins, you measure range and arc here. Steps B & C are already taken care of by the weapon itself (snap shot), and there are no cost associated with this weapon.
So, my judgement, based on all of this is, after an enemy ship executes a maneuver, the owner of snap shot has the option to add it to the ability queue. When it comes up to be resolved, that is when you go though the attack process and measure to see if the ship is in snap shots attack arc and range limit.
If they wanted to limit it, they could have just as easily worded it like this.
"After an enemy ship executes a maneuver, if it is in your [front] arc, you may perform this attack against it as a bonus attack."
Keeping in mind, this is ignoring the 1E ruling on it...
Snap shot triggers at the end of an opponent's maneuver, if they land in your arc.
This was faq'ed and never written on the card itself. And its not always been the case that 1E rulings have remained in place for 2E.
Anyway, that's my opinion.
38 minutes ago, Lyianx said:So, my judgement, based on all of this is, after an enemy ship executes a maneuver, the owner of snap shot has the option to add it to the ability queue. When it comes up to be resolved, that is when you go though the attack process and measure to see if the ship is in snap shots attack arc and range limit.
So let's say Player A has initiative and is moving a ship with afterburners. Player B has snap shot.
Player A's ship lands at Range 3 of the Snap Shot ship (but we haven't measured range yet). Here's a couple scenarios:
Scenario 1
Scenario 2
Have I got all that right?
Legally, and mechanically, yeah. Looks right.
After player A says they will do After burners, then Player B needs to decide if he wants to Snap shot or not.
But here is also the thing, a ship can only perform one bonus attack per round. If the requirements are not met, then the bonus attack is not performed. So unless player B doesn't want to shoot a specific ship, there is no reason he cant always declare snap shot after a ship moves. If the ship moves out of range/arc, then its not like hes "wasted it" and cant declare it again. So there is really no reason Scenario 2 should occur unless the player deliberately doesn't want to snap shot that specific ship (in which case, he shouldn't get mad).
22 hours ago, joeshmoe554 said:I disagree with that. Snap Shot triggers after executing a maneuver, regardless of if the ship is in range/arc or not. You won't even measure range or arc until you perform the bonus attack. If the ship with afterburners is controlled by the First Player, then afterburners would trigger before Snap Shot and if they boost into arc at range 2, then when Snap Shot triggers they are a valid target for the attack.
It all depends on who is First Player.
Correct, i was noting that Snap Shot does NOT automatically trigger after afterburners because afterburners is not a maneuver.
However, first player can allow it to trigger in certain cases.
ok, after some analysis, i'm going to say you cannot trigger snap shot or foresight unless the ship you want to perform the attack on is in arc and in range when the ability triggers. my reasoning is simply the word "requirements" used in the new block of text added to the description of the ability queue.
"• If an ability’s
requirements
are not met, it cannot be added to the ability queue..."
the term is not used extensively in the RR (searching for "requirement" nets 17 results, "require" 32 results), but it is used more than a bit while describing weapons and attacks specifically. this is from Special Weapon at page 18:
"Special weapons have a combination of arc requirements, range requirements, attack value, and possibly other requirements."
therefore, it seems reasonable to assume that you have to meet the requirements of the weapon which ability you want to add to the ability queue at the timing where you want to add the ability to the queue.
i would be very grateful for your thoughts and opinions on this issue.
I think an ability requirement is a requirement to trigger that ability. Not a requirement to a fulfill the ability (you can't perform an action while stressed, and you can't attack someone who doesn't meet the weapon requirements), just a requirement on the actual triggering of the ability.
This seems like the simplest and most consistent interpretation of the rule and it does not require you to basically pre-resolve an ability to determine if you can resolve an ability so it can enter the queue and you can resolve it later.
Edited by joeshmoe55411 hours ago, joeshmoe554 said:I think an ability requirement is a requirement to trigger that ability. Not a requirement to a fulfill the ability (you can't perform an action while stressed, and you can't attack someone who doesn't meet the weapon requirements), just a requirement on the actual triggering of the ability.
- So if a ship has Ensnare and is not tractored at the end of the Actication Phase its ability would not be added to the queue since that is part of the triggering requirements. " At the end of the Activation Phase, if you are tractored, you may ... "
- If Turr Phennir (First Player) shoots Dengar from outside of his front arc then barrel rolls in, Dengar's ability would not trigger since Turr being in the front arc is part of the triggering requirements. " After you defend, if the attacker is in your
, you may ... "
- If Anakin does a red maneuver and does not have a ship in arc or range for his ability it will not trigger even if he boost or barrel rolls using R4-P17, since the arc and range are a requirement to trigger the ability. " After you fully execute a maneuver, if there is an enemy ship in your
, you may ... "
- But, if Anakin does a red maneuver he will still trigger Fine Tuned Controls, since there is no requirement that the ship not be stressed to trigger the ability, " After you fully execute a maneuver, you may ... "
- and likewise, if an enemy ship executes a manuever and may or may not be in range of Snap Shot or Foresight they will still trigger because there is no range or arc requirement to trigger that ability, " After an enemy ship executes a maneuver, you may ... "
This seems like the simplest and most consistent interpretation of the rule and it does not require you to basically pre-resolve an ability to determine if you can resolve an ability so it can enter the queue and you can resolve it later.
Looks like the general format is of the form
<Timing Window>, <Ability Trigger Requirement> (Optional), you may...
If the Ability Trigger Requirement is specified and met, the ability can be added to the queue. If an Ability Trigger Requirement is not specified, the ability can be added to the queue.
I thought that if a ship lands at range 3 and then boosts into range 2 of a ship with snap shot, the snap shot would not work.
This is because the snap shot couldn't be added to the queue, as there wasn't a ship at range 2 when the 'end manoever' phase kicked in.
If you move a ship into range 2 and then boost out of arc, I'm not sure what happens.
The snap shoot enters the queue, but at the point of execution the target ship is out of arc and therefore can no longer be shot. But if an ability enters the queue, can it fail?
45 minutes ago, Andyf1702 said:I thought that if a ship lands at range 3 and then boosts into range 2 of a ship with snap shot, the snap shot would not work.
This is because the snap shot couldn't be added to the queue, as there wasn't a ship at range 2 when the 'end manoever' phase kicked in.
If you move a ship into range 2 and then boost out of arc, I'm not sure what happens.
The snap shoot enters the queue, but at the point of execution the target ship is out of arc and therefore can no longer be shot. But if an ability enters the queue, can it fail?
Fine Tuned Controls has the same timing as Snap Shot though, which means that (arguably) if player 1 FTCs into range and arc for Snap Shot, Player 2's queued Snap Shot can still work on it, because we're in the timing for 'player 2 activates abilities with the 'after executing a manoeuvre' timing.
43 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:Fine Tuned Controls has the same timing as Snap Shot though, which means that (arguably) if player 1 FTCs into range and arc for Snap Shot, Player 2's queued Snap Shot can still work on it, because we're in the timing for 'player 2 activates abilities with the 'after executing a manoeuvre' timing.
But how can the snapshot be added to the queue, when the requirements are not met. ie there are no ships at range 2 at the 'End Manoever' phase.
Just now, Andyf1702 said:But how can the snapshot be added to the queue, when the requirements are not met. ie there are no ships at range 2 at the 'End Manoever' phase.
Because (again, arguably, hence the discussion) the only requirement to add it to the queue is 'an enemy ship executes a manoeuvre'.
18 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:Because (again, arguably, hence the discussion) the only requirement to add it to the queue is 'an enemy ship executes a manoeuvre'.
OK, I see what you mean now. Thanks
2 hours ago, Andyf1702 said:But how can the snapshot be added to the queue, when the requirements are not met. ie there are no ships at range 2 at the 'End Manoever' phase.
For what it's worth you are not the only one with that interpretation. Pulling the trigger isn't the only requirement to make a gun go "BANG!" The rules reference is quite clear that all the requirements must be met. Many are just defining requirements to suit their desire or preferred understanding. What the requirements for Snap Shot are is not clear yet.
But then I was a bit surprised that FTC into bullseye would allow Delta Anakin to use his remove stress in the first place. That never seemed right to me.
34 minutes ago, Frimmel said:For what it's worth you are not the only one with that interpretation. Pulling the trigger isn't the only requirement to make a gun go "BANG!" The rules reference is quite clear that all the requirements must be met. Many are just defining requirements to suit their desire or preferred understanding. What the requirements for Snap Shot are is not clear yet.
But then I was a bit surprised that FTC into bullseye would allow Delta Anakin to use his remove stress in the first place. That never seemed right to me.
FTC never did. P17 and Afterburners did.
And maybe still do, who knows.
1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:FTC never did. P17 and Afterburners did.
And maybe still do, who knows.
It’s clear that they cannot do it now.
Just now, Rettere said:It’s clear that they cannot do it now.
True, I'm thinking of using Chopper before Anakin when unstressed, which is the unclear one.