So, dumb scenario:

I have three Nantex with Ensnare, one in back and two in front of it. I'm trying to catch Soontir. The back Nantex has tractored itself and is pointing it's arc at the front two who are not tractored. At the end of the activation phase, the back Nantex passes it's tractor to one of the Nantex up front that then boosts or barrels to get Soontir in their turret at R1. Can that Nantex then give it's tractor to Soontir? As far as I'm aware, this works because, by the time the ship recieving the tractor token checks for Ensare, it sees that it has a token and that it can proc the ability.

Ensnare for Reference:

" At the end of the Activation Phase, if you are tractored, you may choose 1 ship in your arc at range 0-1. Transfer 1 tractor token to it."

This is the current understanding, yes. Each one can be tractored, move, then pass on the tractor to the next who can throw it off to the enemy.

In your example it can go even further, simply because you mentioned you have 3.

Nantex 1 passes its tractor to Nan 2, who then passes it to Nan 3, who then passes it to Soontir.

Tractor-Jitsu galore.

Just keep in mind (as we discussed in other threads, can't find the exact one now) that you HAVE to rotate your arc when passing along the tractor token. Edit* NVM. Confusing my abilities here.

2 minutes ago, Bort said:

In your example it can go even further, simply because you mentioned you have 3.

Nantex 1 passes its tractor to Nan 2, who then passes it to Nan 3, who then passes it to Soontir.

Tractor-Jitsu galore.

Just keep in mind (as we discussed in other threads, can't find the exact one now) that you HAVE to rotate your arc when passing along the tractor token.

Nope. Only when you gain it the first time from the ship ability. Still relevant but different trigger.

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

Nope. Only when you gain it the first time from the ship ability. Still relevant but different trigger.

Oh ofc. Misremembering the previous thread.

Ignore me.

More fun:

two with tractor tokens and one without. A gives to B, who boosts. B gives to Soontir. C gives to B to reposition a second time.

43 minutes ago, skotothalamos said:

More fun:

two with tractor tokens and one without. A gives to B, who boosts. B gives to Soontir. C gives to B to reposition a second time.

And, notably, the reposition from being tractored is NOT an action, so there's no restriction on double-boosting or double-barrel-rolling. You could use those tractor effects to chain barrel rolls together into a ridiculous amount of lateral movement.

I'm not so sure this works, isnt "At the end of the Activation Phase" a single trigger point?

So at that point you have 1 tractor token so you get one instance of moving a tractor token (from Nan 1 to Nan 2) but you can't then retrigger the "At the end of the Activation Phase" to then pass to another ship?

33 minutes ago, Mace Windu said:

I'm not so sure this works, isnt "At the end of the Activation Phase" a single trigger point?

So at that point you have 1 tractor token so you get one instance of moving a tractor token (from Nan 1 to Nan 2) but you can't then retrigger the "At the end of the Activation Phase" to then pass to another ship?

The key is that each ship gets their own trigger. You just have to trigger them in sequential order, such that when one ship finishes its Ensnare procedure, the next one is all primed and ready for to begin its own triggered effect.

But that is a point that's worth noting, you couldn't pass the token from ship 1 to ship to to ship 3 and back to ship 1, without it getting stuck at ship 1 and not being able to be passed on again, because once per opportunity would apply.

34 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

The key is that each ship gets their own trigger. You just have to trigger them in sequential order, such that when one ship finishes its Ensnare procedure, the next one is all primed and ready for to begin its own triggered effect.

Well we agree that they would all trigger at the same time but do you still get to trigger the effect even if Nan 2 and Nan 3 are not actually tractored at the trigger point though?

I wouldn't have though so in the way that the card is worded as it specifically states "At the end of the Activation Phase, if you are tractored" , you may choose 1 ship in your arc at range 0-1. Transfer 1 tractor token to it. so a condition of the effect triggering at that one point is that the ship needs to be tractored already.

s o at the trigger point neither ship 2 or 3 are tractored so they don't get to trigger the effect? happy to be proven wrong but it feels like your not meeting the trigger condition for ships 2 and 3 so they wouldn't trigger in the first place, no tractor, no trigger.

I agree with Mace Windu, it shouldn’t work. Reasoning is that all “at the end of” abilities get added to the queue at the same time before you start resolving the queue. You can’t add one to the queue, resolve it, then add another to the queue.

Maybe the highlighted section applies?

"Ability Queue

The ABILITY QUEUE is used to resolve the timing of multiple abilities that trigger during the same timing window. Abilities are resolved from the front of the queue to the back of the queue. These abilities are added to the back of the ability queue using the following rules:

If both players have abilities that triggered from the same event, the abilities are added to the ability queue in player order.

If a player has multiple abilities that triggered from the same event, that player chooses the order that those abilities are added to the ability queue.

If resolving an effect from the ability queue triggers additional effects, they are added to the front of the ability queue using the above rules.

See Appendix for 2 examples of the ability queue.

If there are game effects that share the same timing window as a player's ability, the game effect is resolved first.

For example, if a ship performs a red barrel roll and the ship has an ability that triggers after it performs a barrel roll, the ship gains a stress token before the other ability is resolved."

Thanks for providing the relevant rules section!

The section you have bolded would allow this to work if the trigger for Ensnare were “after you receive a tractor token”. But that’s not the trigger, the trigger is the end of the activation phase. And resolving the first Ensnare does not cause the activation phase to end a second time.

9 hours ago, Rettere said:

Thanks for providing the relevant rules section!

The section you have bolded would allow this to work if the trigger for Ensnare were “after you receive a tractor token”. But that’s not the trigger, the trigger is the end of the activation phase. And resolving the first Ensnare does not cause the activation phase to end a second time.

nor does it end the activation phase and make you move on to the next timing window. you are still at the same timing, at the end of the activation phase. there is nothing stopping you from adding further abilities to the queue just because you started resolving the queue. it doesn't need to end the activation phase a second time. the activation phase won't end until all of the effects that occur during the end of activation have resolved.

in essence: "at the end of the activation phase, if you are tractored," means just that. it doesn't matter when you become or became tractored. as long as you're in the right timing window and you are tractored, you can add the ability to the queue and resolve it.

image for reference:

18 hours ago, emeraldbeacon said:

And, notably, the reposition from being tractored is NOT an action, so there's no restriction on double-boosting or double-barrel-rolling. You could use those tractor effects to chain barrel rolls together into a ridiculous amount of lateral movement.

Note that you only reposition when you become tractored; not if you receive additional tokens in excess of what's required to tractor you. But yes, it works in theory: if you tractor yourself, sideslip, hand off the tractor token, then become tractored again you may sideslip again (or boost).

Also, thanks for the quote on the order of the ability queue. So whilst I can decide who triggers ensnare in what order based on ships which tractor themselves during their activation, if I create a new effect from this (i.e. ensnare a Nantex which has ensnare itself and the opportunity to use it) that effect goes to the front of the queue - so I need to be careful what order I resolve stuff in, especially as tractoring things is likely to move stuff in or out of range to trigger ensnare.

3 hours ago, meffo said:

nor does it end the activation phase and make you move on to the next timing window. you are still at the same timing, at the end of the activation phase. there is nothing stopping you from adding further abilities to the queue just because you started resolving the queue. it doesn't need to end the activation phase a second time. the activation phase won't end until all of the effects that occur during the end of activation have resolved.

in essence: "at the end of the activation phase, if you are tractored," means just that. it doesn't matter when you become or became tractored. as long as you're in the right timing window and you are tractored, you can add the ability to the queue and resolve it.

image for reference:

Good point! And this gets to the heart of a major question I have about the queue: when do timing windows for triggers close?

If the window were “during the activation phase” then I would agree with you 100%. But is the “end of the activation phase” a single point in time or a continuing window? If it is a point in time (my view) then all effects that share that trigger need to be added to the queue simultaneously. If it is a continuing window then you can keep tossing new abilities into the queue it would seem.

This touches on a similar question about resolving multiple effects with the same trigger from another thread. In that case the trigger was “after you fully execute a maneuver” and there is some discussion about whether you have to add all abilities to the queue before you start resolving them there, too. (In that case the abilities were a droid and the Jedi ship’s ability). Similar discussions happen around whether or someone using afterburners to enter their opponents Snap Shot range can be fired upon or not.

3 minutes ago, Rettere said:

Good point! And this gets to the heart of a major question I have about the queue: when do timing windows for triggers close?

If the window were “during the activation phase” then I would agree with you 100%. But is the “end of the activation phase” a single point in time or a continuing window? If it is a point in time (my view) then all effects that share that trigger need to be added to the queue simultaneously. If it is a continuing window then you can keep tossing new abilities into the queue it would seem.

This touches on a similar question about resolving multiple effects with the same trigger from another thread. In that case the trigger was “after you fully execute a maneuver” and there is some discussion about whether you have to add all abilities to the queue before you start resolving them there, too. (In that case the abilities were a droid and the Jedi ship’s ability). Similar discussions happen around whether or someone using afterburners to enter their opponents Snap Shot range can be fired upon or not.

well, new RR proves me wrong.

1 hour ago, meffo said:

well, new RR proves me wrong.

Yeah, I guess this all pointless...

Just for clarity here is the relevant section from the new RRG:

"If an ability’s requirements are not met, it cannot be added to the ability queue. For example, at the start of the Engagement Phase, if a ship has an ability that requires it to be tractored, but that ship is not tractored, that ability cannot be added to the queue. The ship cannot add the ability to the queue even if another ability also added to the queue at the start of the Engagement Phase would cause that ship to become tractored upon its resolution."

Well, they made double certain to clamp down on Tractor-jitsu.

Both the rules quoted above and the "The first time a ship becomes tractored each round" change to tractors pretty much kills the fun.

Welcome to the double-nerf club, where the scariest combos never to dominate the meta disappear.

And I was about to jump in separatist just for the Nantex too... Oh well, guess I'll just spend the money on more Y-wings instead.

5 hours ago, nitrobenz said:

Welcome to the double-nerf club, where the scariest combos never to dominate the meta disappear.

And I was about to jump in separatist just for the Nantex too... Oh well, guess I'll just spend the money on more Y-wings instead.

Friend and I was discussing just that. It was actually good of FFG (for us paying players, not for themselves) to update the RR and do the nerf BEFORE most people ran out and bought 5 of these.