So, flying a Delta with R4-P17.

I fully execute a red maneuver and decide to use the ship ability to boost. After doing so, I realize that I miscalculated and am dead to rites in enemy arc at R1. Is it too late to use R4 to barrel roll out now? Is (should?) the terminology be “directly” after performing a red maneuver?

All of your abilities that have the same timing can be executed in whatever order you choose.

How, if I may ask, are you using the ship ability (Fine Tuned Controls) to perform a boost, after performing a red maneuver, which would give you stress? There are other methods which could grant you that boost, such as Afterburners (may boost when stressed) or Ahsoka Tano 's pilot ability (spend a force to perform an action even while stressed)... but since the Check Maneuver Difficulty step is part of executing a maneuver, you would have stress before you could Fine Tuned, and stress (normally) stops you from performing actions, regardless of the source.

Basically, you can't use Fine-Tuned Controls and R4-P17 in the same turn, unless you're Anakin, and like spending your force charges:

1. Execute Red Maneuver
2. SHENANIGANS (perform in any order)
   1. R4-P17 to reposition
   2. Anakin pilot ability to clear stress, then Fine-Tuned to reposition
3. Regular action step

I'm curious as well towards what @emeraldbeacon is asking. What effect are you using to get past the stress gain in the Check Difficulty step of Executing a maneuver (pertains to Fine-Tuned Controls, R4-P17 would still function)?

A ship can EXECUTE a maneuver by resolving the following steps in order:

1. Maneuver Ship: During this step, the ship moves using the matching template.
   1. Take the template that matches the maneuver from the supply .
   2. Set the template between the ship's front guides (so that it is flush against the base).
   3. Pick up and place the ship at the opposite end of the template and slide the rear guides of the ship into the template.
   4. Return the template to the supply.
2. Check Difficulty: During this step, if the maneuver is red, the ship gains one stress token ; if the maneuver is blue, the ship removes one stress token and one strain token .

You can do it by removing the stress with anakin.

1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

You can do it by removing the stress with anakin.

True... as I edited above (while you were typing this), Anakin is the only one who could pull this off.

I think the question is, do both abilities have to be added to the queue before resolving any abilities that trigger off of completing a maneuver, or can he do one of them (FTC) first and then decide the add the droid to the queue after seeing where FTC land and him.

I have been having a similar argument recently.

Technically, there are a few references to "Fully Executing a Maneuver" in the rulebook. Overlap Pg. 14 defines it as:

"A ship fully executes a maneuver if it does not overlap a ship."

Here is the argument. When does this happen?

A ship can execute a maneuver by resolving the following steps in order:

1. Maneuver Ship: During this step, the ship moves using the matching template.

a. Take the template that matches the maneuver from the supply.

b. Set the template between the ship’s front guides (so that it is flush against the base).

c. Pick up and place the ship at the opposite end of the template and slide the rear guides of the ship into the template.

d. Return the template to the supply.

2. Check Difficulty: During this step, if the maneuver is red, the ship gains one stress token; if the maneuver is blue, the ship removes one stress token and one strain token.

Overlap occurs in between c and d, therefore FFG's *ONLY* definition of "Fully executes a maneuver" triggers between c and d.

Defenders w/ damaged engine SHOULD be able to use full throttle. Even over a debris field.

Delta's SHOULD be able to FTC after a red move, even over a debris field.

Korr Sella and Kanan should NOT be able to remove stress from debris fields, as debris stress happens after the Check Difficulty.

I do realize this goes against what almost every judge and TO are ruling, however it is following the exact definitions as given by FFG.

The following comment from Veral is accurate and would eliminate my entire argument.

Veral: Most 'fully execute' abilities should probably be 'after you complete a maneuver, if you fully executed it'

3 minutes ago, Rettere said:

I think the question is, do both abilities have to be added to the queue before resolving any abilities that trigger off of completing a maneuver, or can he do one of them (FTC) first and then decide the add the droid to the queue after seeing where FTC land and him.

All abilities are added to the queue when they are triggered (in this case "After fully executing a maneuver"), "may" abilities are optional when they come up in the queue to be resolved, all others are mandatory.

18 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

You can do it by removing the stress with anakin.

True, but since @K-2SO has been clear elsewhere that they are quite new to the game, making sure they are aware of the process of fully executing a maneuver is a good idea.

Thank you, everyone. Yes, I was (but forgot to add it to the scenario above) taking into account the removal of the stress prior to FTC, I was just unclear as to how actions are prioritized. In general, not just the above scenario. I’m sure there must be other scenarios where two abilities can appear to contradict, yes?

2 minutes ago, K-2SO said:

Thank you, everyone. Yes, I was (but forgot to add it to the scenario above) taking into account the removal of the stress prior to FTC, I was just unclear as to how actions are prioritized. In general, not just the above scenario. I’m sure there must be other scenarios where two abilities can appear to contradict, yes?

Tonnes.

If two or more optional effects have the same timing (and occur outside an attack), they are activated and resolved in player order. If they all belong to the same player, that player determines the order.

There are edge cases which get a bit weird, but that's a solid rule of thumb.

A further question... in the above situation (Anakin performs a red maneuver, then spends a force to remove stress), and you have both R4-P17 and Fine Tuned Controls available, which of the following is most accurate?

1. You may resolve either one, then after seeing the result, you may resolve the other.
2. You must first elect to resolve either both effects, or neither, or just one of the effects...
   1. If you select to resolve both, then, after resolving one of the effects, you MUST attempt to resolve the other.
   2. If you select to resolve only one, you MAY NOT resolve the other.

4 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

A further question... in the above situation (Anakin performs a red maneuver, then spends a force to remove stress), and you have both R4-P17 and Fine Tuned Controls available, which of the following is most accurate?

1. You may resolve either one, then after seeing the result, you may resolve the other.
2. You must first elect to resolve either both effects, or neither, or just one of the effects...
   1. If you select to resolve both, then, after resolving one of the effects, you MUST attempt to resolve the other.
   2. If you select to resolve only one, you MAY NOT resolve the other.

as far as i know, while the ability queue is being resolved, there is nothing stopping you from adding further abilities to it. in other words, you can add an ability and resolve it before deciding if you want to add further abilities to the queue or not, since you are still in the same timing window.

some effects are mandatory and so will always be added to the queue. you are still free to add other abilities before and/or after mandatory abilities in the queue, at any point while the queue is being resolved. you still have to resolve game effects that are not abilities before resolving game effects that are abilities, though.

In casual play, I'd always play it as "1. You may resolve either one, then after seeing the result, you may resolve the other." as the timing window for "after you fully execute a maneuver" doesn't end until you move on to your perform action step.

In tournament play, I'd still argue for 1, but I'd want to talk it over with a judge first.

6 hours ago, Nspace said:

In casual play, I'd always play it as "1. You may resolve either one, then after seeing the result, you may resolve the other." as the timing window for "after you fully execute a maneuver" doesn't end until you move on to your perform action step.

In tournament play, I'd still argue for 1, but I'd want to talk it over with a judge first.

I generally agree with this.

I do think there is some merit to the counter argument, that you have to choose which abilities are in or out, based on the precise timing of the trigger (after executing a maneuver) but before resolving any of them. There's no indication of what the DURATION of the trigger "after executing a [whatever] maneuver" is, whether it's super restrictive, like, "make all your decisions now, then resolve them one by one," or very liberal, such as, "you can activate and resolve abilities with this trigger at will, until you choose to move on to your Perform Action Step." It's pretty rare that it would even come up, to be honest, so the discussion is more academic than practical... but it's something to think about, at least.

I consider deciding whether or not to take an action with R4-P17 and which action to take as part of resolving R4-P17. It's the same with Fine Tuned Controls. Since they are both triggered by the same event you resolve them in order one at a time and you shouldn't start resolving the second ability until after you have finished resolving the first ability.

A small bit of supporting rules for "You may resolve either one, then after seeing the result, you may resolve the other.":

Rules Reference, Linked Actions, page 12 - "After a ship performs an action with an attached linked action, if the player wants to resolve the linked action, it is added to the ability queue."

So there is precedent for not having to decide if you are taking a second action until after the first action is completed.