Having a bit of an argument regarding when Korr Sella actually triggers.

"After you fully execute a blue maneuver..."

FFG Definition of "Fully execute a maneuver" (Overlap, Pg 14):

A ship fully executes a maneuver if it does not overlap a ship. If a ship executes a maneuver and overlaps a ship, it must partially execute that maneuver by performing the following steps....

Now look at the Execute a Maneuver chain.

To move the ship, the player follows these steps:
1. Take the template that matches the maneuver from the supply.
2. Set the template between the ship’s front guides so that it is flush against the base.
3. Pick up and place the ship at the opposite end of the template, sliding the rear guides of the ship into the template.
4. Return the template to the supply.

After moving the ship, the player checks the difficulty (color) of the maneuver.

Apply FFG's ruling of "Fully Execute a Maneuver" and it looks like this:

To move the ship, the player follows these steps:
1. Take the template that matches the maneuver from the supply.
2. Set the template between the ship’s front guides so that it is flush against the base.
3. Pick up and place the ship at the opposite end of the template, sliding the rear guides of the ship into the template.

***3.1. Check whether the ship Partially or Fully executed its maneuver. The reason why I have inserted it here is because Fully execute is if you dont overlap, if you do overlap (same timing window) you slide back until you fit. The template has to be present.

so fully executing according to ffg happens before the template is removed.

4. Return the template to the supply.

After moving the ship, the player checks the difficulty (color) of the maneuver. (Which is when Stress is applied from Debris Cloud.)

Using this same argument with FFG definitions means that Kanan's ability should not work when going over a debris cloud as well.

The following comment would clear up the entire argument.

Most 'fully execute' abilities should probably be 'after you complete a maneuver, if you fully executed it'

Or, FFG can errata a line into the rules that says when to determine whether the move was fully or partially executed.

You are missing a step

Quote

A ship can execute a maneuver by resolving the following steps in order:

1. Maneuver Ship: During this step, the ship moves using the matching template.
a. Take the template that matches the maneuver from the supply.
b. Set the template between the ship’s front guides (so that it is flush against the base).
c. Pick up and place the ship at the opposite end of the template and slide the rear guides of the ship into the template.
d. Return the template to the supply.

2. Check Difficulty: During this step, if the maneuver is red, the ship gains one stress token; if the maneuver is blue, the ship removes one stress token and one strain token.

For starters, Korr doesnt trigger until after the Check Difficulty.

18 hours ago, kthomasr said:

Fully execute is if you dont overlap,

Fully execute is if you don't overlap a SHIP specifically.

Quote

Even if a ship partially executes a maneuver, it is still treated as having executed a maneuver of the indicated speed, bearing, and difficulty.

So yes. If you fly Korr over a debris with a blue maneuver, she will remove that stress token from the debris.

I did include the check difficulty in the first part, i just didnt label it as step 2, but it was included.

There are 2 discrepancies with this though.

If the "fully execute a maneuver" trigger occurs AFTER check difficulty, for advanced maneuvers that means you are removing the movement templates from the map, checking difficulty, THEN placing the templates down again and rotating the ship?

Secondly, when in the movement chain do you determine whether or not the maneuver is fully or partially executed? Where in the movement chain do the rules of overlap (and the only definition of "Fully execute a maneuver") take place?

I'd view this as working. Kanan Jarrus crew flying over debris works, and he has the same timing as Korr Sella.

Where are you rotating the ship? Can you give an example?

Kturn. When does the actual ship rotation occur?

Tallon roll. If the "fully execute" check is done after check difficulty as everyone is saying, then the ship HAS to fit on a regular turn, before it can be rotated and adjusted forward or back.

Sloop, pretty much same as kturn.

In the rulebook under advanced maneuvers, the following statement implies the fully execute check is done in the middle of the maneuver chain.

Kturn and sloop : ◊ If the ship fully executes the maneuver, the player slides the ship’s front guides into the end of the template instead of the rear guides.

Tallon roll : If the ship fully executes the maneuver, before the player places the ship at the opposite end of the template, the ship is rotated 90º to the left for a 󲁢, or 90º to the right for a 󲁦. Then the player places the ship with the hashmark on the side of the base aligned to the left, middle, or right of the end of the template, (similar to a barrel roll).

My question is does the fully execute a maneuver trigger before or after check difficulty.

According to everyone, its after.

Yet, according to the rules as written, its while templates are still on the table. Overlap has the only definition of "fully execute a maneuver" and it doesn't say that it is after the check difficulty step.

Tallon rolls require the template to still be on the table to fully execute.

17 minutes ago, kthomasr said:

My question is does the fully execute a maneuver trigger before or after check difficulty.

According to everyone, its after.

Yet, according to the rules as written, its while templates are still on the table. Overlap has the only definition of "fully execute a maneuver" and it doesn't say that it is after the check difficulty step.

Tallon rolls require the template to still be on the table to fully execute.

Anything that triggers after executing a maneuver or fully executing a maneuver, is triggered after the Check Difficulty step.

Tallon Rolls use that langauage because the ship will not rotate if it cannot complete the maneuver, but you still rotate the ship, " before the player places the ship at the opposite end of the template ". It's a poorly written section in the rules that has come up once before. You do not execute a 3-turn, place the ship, then remove the ship and place it again after rotating.

2 minutes ago, joeshmoe554 said:

Anything that triggers after executing a maneuver or fully executing a maneuver, is triggered after the Check Difficulty step.

Can you show me in the RR where that is specified?

Can you show me in an errata where that is specified?

Are you saying that the fully execute check is done at a different time for advanced maneuvers?

3 minutes ago, kthomasr said:

Can you show me in the RR where that is specified?

Under Maneuver in the Rules Reference:

A ship can EXECUTE a maneuver by resolving the following steps in order:

1. Maneuver Ship: During this step, the ship moves using the matching template.
   1. Take the template that matches the maneuver from the supply .
   2. Set the template between the ship's front guides (so that it is flush against the base).
   3. Pick up and place the ship at the opposite end of the template and slide the rear guides of the ship into the template.
   4. Return the template to the supply.
2. Check Difficulty: During this step, if the maneuver is red, the ship gains one stress token ; if the maneuver is blue, the ship removes one stress token and one strain token .

You have to perform both steps to execute a maneuver, and anything that triggers after executing a maneuver would be after both steps.

3 minutes ago, kthomasr said:

Can you show me in an errata where that is specified?

Nope, there is no errata necessary.

3 minutes ago, kthomasr said:

Are you saying that the fully execute check is done at a different time for advanced maneuvers?

Nope. I am saying that Anything that triggers after executing a maneuver or fully executing a maneuver, is triggered after the Check Difficulty step. That is the case for every type of maneuver.

Rotating your ship after a talon roll is not triggered "after executing a maneuver". You rotate your ship before placing it on the mat, if you can place it on the mat after rotating your ship.

Just now, joeshmoe554 said:

Under Maneuver in the Rules Reference:

A ship can EXECUTE a maneuver by resolving the following steps in order:

1. Maneuver Ship: During this step, the ship moves using the matching template.
   1. Take the template that matches the maneuver from the supply .
   2. Set the template between the ship's front guides (so that it is flush against the base).
   3. Pick up and place the ship at the opposite end of the template and slide the rear guides of the ship into the template.
   4. Return the template to the supply.
2. Check Difficulty: During this step, if the maneuver is red, the ship gains one stress token ; if the maneuver is blue, the ship removes one stress token and one strain token .

You have to perform both steps to execute a maneuver, and anything that triggers after executing a maneuver would be after both steps.

Nope, there is no errata necessary.

Nope. I am saying that Anything that triggers after executing a maneuver or fully executing a maneuver, is triggered after the Check Difficulty step. That is the case for every type of maneuver.

Rotating your ship after a talon roll is not triggered "after executing a maneuver". You rotate your ship before placing it on the mat, if you can place it on the mat after rotating your ship.

Please insert the overlap section of rules into the maneuver chain. By FFG's own definition, when does "fully execute" occur? A ship fully executes a maneuver if it does not overlap a ship.

If the rules said "A ship fully executes a maneuver if it does not overlap a ship and after checking difficulty " then i would accept it. But it doesn't. Everyone assumes that the fully execute is at the end of the maneuver and after check difficulty. Yet overlap puts it in the middle of the maneuver chain. Advanced maneuvers puts it in the middle of the maneuver chain. And there are no other references in the rules to base it off of.

Unless, following the rules like I said for advanced maneuvers, you place the ship in the basic move position, remove templates, check difficulty, then place templates and rotate the ship.

Quote

" While a ship executes a maneuver or otherwise moves, it overlaps an object if the ship’s final position would physically be on top of an object."

" While: This term is often used in combination with multi-stepped game effects such as an attack, an action, or a maneuver .

Most of the time, this will hit during sub-step C of the "maneuver ship" step of the Execute Maneuver timing/game effect. But, since its checking during the ENTIRE timing window of "Execute Maneuver", then "after" only triggers after the entire multi-step process is complete (ie, after check difficultly).

"After you execute a maneuver" and "after you fully execute a maneuver" are the same timing window, occurring after the check difficulty step of executing a maneuver. The former triggers after any maneuver, the latter only after a maneuver that was fully executed.

6 minutes ago, Maui. said:

"After you execute a maneuver" and "after you fully execute a maneuver" are the same timing window, occurring after the check difficulty step of executing a maneuver. The former triggers after any maneuver, the latter only after a maneuver that was fully executed.

So when do you rotate for advanced maneuvers?

When you place the ship at the end of the template.

So the fully execute check for advanced maneuvers is done.... in the middle of the maneuver chain?

Where does overlap fit into the maneuver chain?

4 minutes ago, kthomasr said:

So the fully execute check for advanced maneuvers is done.... in the middle of the maneuver chain?

Where does overlap fit into the maneuver chain?

I'm not sure what you mean.

If one is to trigger something after a maneuver is fully executed, one must first execute a maneuver. Maneuvers are not considered executed until after the check difficulty step, because the check difficulty step is part of executing a maneuver. So "after you fully execute a maneuver" doesn't mean "in the middle of executing a maneuver, once you know there isn't an overlap." It means "after you execute a maneuver that didn't overlap."

Technically, it happens before you remove the template.

Fully execute is if you dont overlap, if you do overlap (same timing window) you slide back until you fit. The template has to be present. THEN you remove the template. THEN you check difficulty.

so fully executing according to ffg happens before the template is removed.

15 minutes ago, kthomasr said:

Technically, it happens before you remove the template.

Fully execute is if you dont overlap, if you do overlap (same timing window) you slide back until you fit. The template has to be present. THEN you remove the template. THEN you check difficulty.

so fully executing according to ffg happens before the template is removed.

That's how you know whether the maneuver is fully executed or partially executed.

You have not finished executing any maneuver, fully or partially, until after the Check Difficulty step.