Hello! RCadeGaming here.

I'm currently waiting on my new core books to start a solo campaign me and a friend want to do. My player let me know that he wants to be a Jedi during the clone wars, but wants to fall to the dark side during the Dawn of Rebellion era. I was wondering how one might have a darksider in the greater Rebel Alliance? During the days of individual cells, it'd be easy, but after that? I have no clue.

It's your call.

Mechanically it'll work just fine, as there's no solid rules issue preventing it, and TBH your player is actually really set to make use of the Morality system, as it works best with player buy-in and intent.

As for a Darksider in the "good guy" Rebel Alliance... It's be a little different, but you can probably do it.

Just off the top of my head:

1) The Alliance is exactly that, an Alliance. It's not a solid, complete, unified organization. While there is a single high command that everyone ultimately answers to, as we see in the films that command isn't especially unified, and internal squabbling happens. So that gives your specific piece of the Alliance some leeway on how the do things and what they consider acceptable.

2) While outright atrocities and war crimes will probably not go unnoticed, there's plenty of situations where Rebels will have to do some unpleasantness because the mission or situation calls for it. Cassian demonstrates this at the beginning of Rogue One, and talks of it some more later in the film. So having a Darksider on board isn't a showstopper, though for thematic reasons you'll probably want your play group to be the not-so-nice arm of the Rebellion, handling things like dirty intelligence, wet-work, and other "not what we want to do, but what must be done" type assignments.

And of course there's always the option to have them go Saw and break off or be thrown out of the Alliance...

1 hour ago, RCadeGaming said:

I was wondering how one might have a darksider in the greater Rebel Alliance? During the days of individual cells, it'd be easy, but after that? I have no clue.

So, for any Force User who isn't a Sith (which there are only two of, of course, Vader and Palpatine), all they know is that"the Jedi" (which is who the vast majority of Galactic citizens will lump anyone they see using the Force or a Lightsaber in with) are declared Enemy #1 by the Supreme Chancellor/Empire/new Galactic governing body. Right?

That should be enough reason for any Force User - even if they are, or turn Darkside, or don't consider themselves to be a Jedi - to work with the Rebellion. Right? To try to get these guys who want to eradicate you out of power.

Especially if/when they learn of the Inquisitors, who is of course tasked with killing ALL Force Users who aren't Vader or Palpatine.

From there, it's just a matter of your PC not playing their character to be "Chaotic Stupid". Right?

The only other options for a Darkside Force User is to just try to disappear and... what? Hide all their life? Ride out the storm? Try to become Vader or Palatine's apprentice? Anyone with half a brain wouldn't want to become an Inquisitor, because of the obvious implications of what will happen once you finish your job...

It's therefore on you as GM to present the Rebellion as their best option, and let them choose.

You should be prepared though for them to not choose the Rebellion though, unless you've both agreed that this is what the campaign will be about.

11 minutes ago, emsquared said:

So, for any Force User who isn't a Sith (which there are only two of, of course, Vader and Palpatine), all they know is that"the Jedi" (which is who the vast majority of Galactic citizens will lump anyone they see using the Force or a Lightsaber in with) are declared Enemy #1 by the Supreme Chancellor/Empire/new Galactic governing body. Right?

That should be enough reason for any Force User - even if they are, or turn Darkside, or don't consider themselves to be a Jedi - to work with the Rebellion. Right? To try to get these guys who want to eradicate you out of power.

Especially if/when they learn of the Inquisitors, who is of course tasked with killing ALL Force Users who aren't Vader or Palpatine.

From there, it's just a matter of your PC not playing their character to be "Chaotic Stupid". Right?

The only other options for a Darkside Force User is to just try to disappear and... what? Hide all their life? Ride out the storm? Try to become Vader or Palatine's apprentice? Anyone with half a brain wouldn't want to become an Inquisitor, because of the obvious implications of what will happen once you finish your job...

It's therefore on you as GM to present the Rebellion as their best option, and let them choose.

You should be prepared though for them to not choose the Rebellion though, unless you've both agreed that this is what the campaign will be about.

Thank you! I'll certainly keep this in mind as I write the adventures.

1 hour ago, Ghostofman said:

It's your call.

Mechanically it'll work just fine, as there's no solid rules issue preventing it, and TBH your player is actually really set to make use of the Morality system, as it works best with player buy-in and intent.

As for a Darksider in the "good guy" Rebel Alliance... It's be a little different, but you can probably do it.

Just off the top of my head:

1) The Alliance is exactly that, an Alliance. It's not a solid, complete, unified organization. While there is a single high command that everyone ultimately answers to, as we see in the films that command isn't especially unified, and internal squabbling happens. So that gives your specific piece of the Alliance some leeway on how the do things and what they consider acceptable.

2) While outright atrocities and war crimes will probably not go unnoticed, there's plenty of situations where Rebels will have to do some unpleasantness because the mission or situation calls for it. Cassian demonstrates this at the beginning of Rogue One, and talks of it some more later in the film. So having a Darksider on board isn't a showstopper, though for thematic reasons you'll probably want your play group to be the not-so-nice arm of the Rebellion, handling things like dirty intelligence, wet-work, and other "not what we want to do, but what must be done" type assignments.

And of course there's always the option to have them go Saw and break off or be thrown out of the Alliance...

And I'll keep in mind too, so thank you!

I recall various sources commenting about how the Alliance, during the really bad period of the Empire, sided with whomever they could get on board. Which meant they had some unsavory bed fellows to get the job done. So if the Dark Sider in question is more....open about their somewhat evil nature, the Rebels might just be like "well, he's a jerk, but he has something very valuable that we need desperately for our war, so we'll just have to deal with it."

Or, just have the Dark Sider be subtle with their behavior. They are working to topple the Empire, not for any altruistic reasons, but because THEY want to take over later! The Emperor is WEAK! He's a FOOL who clearly doesn't know how to properly run an Empire! But I DO!! So I will help these pathetic rebels, quietly, secretly, to topple the Emperor, and then it will be MY TIME!!! MMMUAHAHAHA!! *but all inside his head*

That would be the 2 ways I would try and do a Dark Sider Rebel, at least in the broad strokes.

2 hours ago, emsquared said:

Anyone with half a brain wouldn't want to become an Inquisitor, because of the obvious implications of what will happen once you finish your job...

Since there'll always be Force Users in the galaxy, an inquisitor's job will never finish. Perhaps anyone with half-brain wouldn't take the job, but someone with a full brain might think it's better to be the hunter than the hunted. That's a darkside way of thinking.

3 hours ago, KungFuFerret said:

Or, just have the Dark Sider be subtle with their behavior. They are working to topple the Empire, not for any altruistic reasons, but because THEY want to take over later! The Emperor is WEAK! He's a FOOL who clearly doesn't know how to properly run an Empire! But I DO!! So I will help these pathetic rebels, quietly, secretly, to topple the Emperor, and then it will be MY TIME!!! MMMUAHAHAHA!! *but all inside his head*

*Says out loud* turns around, sees Crix Madine standing in his doorway holding a datapad and with a shocked expression on his face.

1 hour ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

*Says out loud* turns around, sees Crix Madine standing in his doorway holding a datapad and with a shocked expression on his face.

I dare say Crix's days are numbered.

5 hours ago, KungFuFerret said:

I recall various sources commenting about how the Alliance, during the really bad period of the Empire, sided with whomever they could get on board. Which meant they had some unsavory bed fellows to get the job done. So if the Dark Sider in question is more....open about their somewhat evil nature, the Rebels might just be like "well, he's a jerk, but he has something very valuable that we need desperately for our war, so we'll just have to deal with it."

Or, just have the Dark Sider be subtle with their behavior. They are working to topple the Empire, not for any altruistic reasons, but because THEY want to take over later! The Emperor is WEAK! He's a FOOL who clearly doesn't know how to properly run an Empire! But I DO!! So I will help these pathetic rebels, quietly, secretly, to topple the Emperor, and then it will be MY TIME!!! MMMUAHAHAHA!! *but all inside his head*

That would be the 2 ways I would try and do a Dark Sider Rebel, at least in the broad strokes.

I believe my player wouldn't try to usurp the Empire. At least, not until after RotJ.

3 hours ago, WolfRider said:

Since there'll always be Force Users in the galaxy, an inquisitor's job will never finish. Perhaps anyone with half-brain wouldn't take the job, but someone with a full brain might think it's better to be the hunter than the hunted. That's a darkside way of thinking.

But that's only until they upset Vader.

From a gameplay perspective, I see no issue with it. A dark force user would fit in quite well. They'd be willing to do the dirty work, they'd have personal reasons to stop the Empire, and they'd be effective at various rebel efforts. They wouldn't fit in with everyone however, and many rebel cells wouldn't want them attached to their group. The greater rebel effort would probably disavow any connection to them.

Take the Rebels cartoon. Their cell did a lot of Robin Hood style of work. A dark force user isn't going to be down for this. They'd rather take the goods themselves, sell them for profit, then use that money to better equip themselves (while explaining that the more powerful they are, the more of a threat to the empire they are....feeding some poor starving folks doesn't hurt the Empire).

A dark force user would fit in with Cassian, or better yet Saw's group.

Eventually the character becomes a problem as the dark side would lead to the desire of more and more power to where they would be a threat to the new republic...but that's not likely something you'll deal with in the game.

The interesting part for the game itself is giving the party choices (give food to starving locals or sell the produce and fund yourself, risk innocents and children during attacks or protect the innocents and strike at more secure targets) and watch as they fight each other and attempt to undermine each other while still trying to complete the same goal.

1 minute ago, kmanweiss said:

Take the Rebels cartoon. Their cell did a lot of Robin Hood style of work. A dark force user isn't going to be down for this. They'd rather take the goods themselves, sell them for profit, then use that money to better equip themselves (while explaining that the more powerful they are, the more of a threat to the empire they are....feeding some poor starving folks doesn't hurt the Empire).

Not necessarily...

If you're going to talk Darkside play, you need to be ready to look a little deeper than that. Going with the melodramatic option is valid, but you can make the character more interesting by making him less of a mustache twirler and instead look at other options.

The Zealot for example could survive for quite a while in a small rebel group. Someone consumed by his hate for the Empire, even if he doesn't let it show. That guy would be a Darksider, and would be OK playing Robin Hood, as that's the sort of thing that he internalizes as him as the good guy and the Empire as the bad guy. Something that maintains his darkness by rationalizing that he's not dark himself, he's just doing what others may not have the guts to. He's the one "they need on that wall" to reference A Few Good Men.

It would also give the player a solid fall storyline. He starts as a Jedi. Fights for the Republic, Evades the Empire, witnesses some bad things, links up with the alliance, tangles with ISB inflitrators and spies, and so on. Over time the insidious nature of the Darkside builds. He might not go off and become a murderhobo, or argue for Base Delta Zeroing Coruscant... instead he become a witch hunter. He starts to see the Empire wherever he looks, and is driven to stop it. In the end he's not the guy that wants to take over the galaxy himself, he might still fully support the Old Republic, but there's your problem.

He's now the guy that's out to ruin everyone that ever assisted the Empire. Officer, Soldier, Bureaucrat, Cook, Janitor, all agreed to work for the Empire and didn't walk away after Alderaan went public, therefore they are all are guilty of the crime as if they themselves committed it.

Even the Alliance can be target in the long run. You see, they want to restore the Republic... but not really. They've got this "New Republic" idea where they are changing things, things that were never broken. Clearly there's something else going on here. The Republic was perfect as it was. I was there, I remember!

See? The real trick is INSIDIOUS. The outlook has to creep in slowly over the course of the campaign. He can't be going all Zealous from day one. But run like that and you can easily end up with a nice PvP final battle to close out the campaign, much like with Obi/Anakin.

Honestly, I’m surprised the whole Rebellion isn’t full up to its proverbial eyes in “dark siders.”

Not every force user during this era is a farm boy full of hope with old men and muppets to guide them. Most of them witness far more heinous acts every day than seeing the aftermath of a Stormtrooper assault on their Aunt and Uncle.

Vengeance is a pretty quick path to a dark place in the Star Wars universe as well as a serious amount of power, and the reality is that any Rebellion wanting to get its point across would use these individuals to a great extent. Real history is full of examples of this.

Also with regards to the Sith of the Rebellion Era, who is to say that someone out there hasn’t stumbled across a trove of their teachings and, having not seen any Sith around, decided to start them up again? Even if they’re sticking to the “only two” mantra. It’s not like Vader and the Emperor are known Sith lords. This is an angle I figure a lot of players/GMs would try and explore.

59 minutes ago, Flavorabledeez said:

It’s not like Vader and the Emperor are known Sith lords.

You brought up some good points, but I can't fully agree with this one. Anyone who researches the Sith, at least enough to know of the Darth title, should absolutely know that Darth Vader is a Sith. Since Palpatine doesn't go by his Sith name, however, they should assume Vader is the master.

11 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

*Says out loud* turns around, sees Crix Madine standing in his doorway holding a datapad and with a shocked expression on his face.

Hey, the dude is responsible for the horrifying death of 10 billion people. Which is like 5 times Alderaan. But hey, he didn't blow up the planet, so I guess he's got that going for him. I'm sure a cunning enough dark sider could spin it into Crix not really having abandoned the Empire but instead been working as a deep infiltrator and double agent.

6 hours ago, RCadeGaming said:

You brought up some good points, but I can't fully agree with this one. Anyone who researches the Sith, at least enough to know of the Darth title, should absolutely know that Darth Vader is a Sith. Since Palpatine doesn't go by his Sith name, however, they should assume Vader is the master.

I can agree with this, but that’s only if they know he exists and know his name.

Modern canon seems to keep Vader as a mystery figure that even his own troops are unaware of (Charles Soule’s Vader comic) and even those who face him don’t know his name (Rebels). Plus he does tend to get mentioned only as “Vader” frequently.

It’s all things for the players/gm to work out in this case. But you are correct that upon an encounter with Darth Vader (or even discovering his name, which should happen if the players are in the Rebellion for a good amount of time) should result in a “oh, so the Sith are still around” moment.

9 hours ago, Darth Revenant said:

Hey, the dude is responsible for the horrifying death of 10 billion people. Which is like 5 times Alderaan. But hey, he didn't blow up the planet, so I guess he's got that going for him. I'm sure a cunning enough dark sider could spin it into Crix not really having abandoned the Empire but instead been working as a deep infiltrator and double agent.

Oh no no no. Crix is far worse. You see, not only was he an Imperial, but he's also a traitor! So, if he's willing to not only throw in with Palpy, but also switch sides the moment it became convenient for him, then clearly we can't trust him either!

19 hours ago, Flavorabledeez said:

I can agree with this, but that’s only if they know he exists and know his name.

Modern canon seems to keep Vader as a mystery figure that even his own troops are unaware of (Charles Soule’s Vader comic) and even those who face him don’t know his name (Rebels). Plus he does tend to get mentioned only as “Vader” frequently.

It’s all things for the players/gm to work out in this case. But you are correct that upon an encounter with Darth Vader (or even discovering his name, which should happen if the players are in the Rebellion for a good amount of time) should result in a “oh, so the Sith are still around” moment.

Followed quickly by the "Guess we'll have to kill him" moment, and then the "oh god he's killing us" moment.

I hadn't realized that he was a mystery figure to the Empire, but I haven't read much of the new canon stuff. I read Tarkin most recently, actually. Next of Lords of the Sith.

17 hours ago, RCadeGaming said:

Followed quickly by the "Guess we'll have to kill him" moment, and then the "oh god he's killing us" moment.

I hadn't realized that he was a mystery figure to the Empire, but I haven't read much of the new canon stuff. I read Tarkin most recently, actually. Next of Lords of the Sith.

Oh man, the opportunity as a GM to have the lights go off in a hallway and to have a red lightsaber ignite behind the players gives me goosebumps.

With regards to him being a mystery figure to even the Empire I’m not sure how long that lasts or to what degree it continues. I mean I get that the Empire wants to show itself as a force for good and having a seven foot tall man in a black mask and cape doesn’t really represent that, but how long can you keep that guy a secret?

Stormtrooper #612: Hey, did you see the new guy down on the flight deck?

Stormtrooper #216: Yeah, he’s got black armor. I want black armor. What do you have to do to get black armor?

Stormtrooper #612: Sounds to me like you have to be out of shape to get it. Dude was breathing all hard. You could hear him all the way down the hall. He smells kind of rough too. Like he’s always burning toast.

Victory at any costs. The Empire is the ultimate evil, and if the PC has to get their hands dirty to do it, so be it.

Then maybe a little dirtier. Then a little more. Then to the point where asymmetric warfare is no longer a valid excuse.

Or as others have said, maybe they are so committed to the Rebellion, that they begin to see spies, traitors, and cowards everywhere, regardless of the likelihood or accuracy of their views.

"Paranoia's a drug, you know. Be careful you don't get addicted."