14 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:That’s super neato, but he will in fact get an action in the form of taking a tractor and have the ability to take a rotate turret action. He may not get to do a Focus or Evade despite shifting himself off of a bump, but for 42pts you can get a “Glorious Squad Leader” Hive Guard that will let him do it beforehand.
I mean, 23pts can give him a calculate
27 minutes ago, DarkArk said:Sun Fac with Ensnare and Juke with that Squad Leader is 127 points. That does almost nothing if it can't get to range 1 and is a grand total of 8 HP. Also I really wouldn't count the turret rotate as some sort of amazing free action. It's a necessary component to the ship considering otherwise all it has is a bullseye.
You could also just take some medium or large ships if he's that much of a threat. God forbid high-I small bases actually have a bad matchup. Soontir is 55 usually, he should get beaten in a 1v1 by a 78 point ship.
126 for * Outmaneuver , actually. Juke wasn’t actually serious. And ****, you could probably even do better with Predator, for 122 total. Point is that it’s a perfect storm event where no amount of good flying stops a Sum Facker from kamikaze bumping into you (or just ending up near enough to reposition into Range 1), throwing you on a rock, reducing your agility, and then tossing possibly 5 dice into your face-hole if he bulls-eyes. 4 if he doesn’t line that up.
*Edit: Outmaneuver doesn’t work for Sun Face’s normal primary attacks. DERP.
Edited by It’s One Of Ours6 hours ago, theBitterFig said:I've been contemplating 4 Nantex -- three Init 3 generics with Ensnare, and Sun Fac without (like, GravDef and Predator or Trick Shot). Or non-Ensnare Sun Fac, with Ensnare Berwer Kret, and a pair of Belbullabs.
All theoretical, I've been busy since Friday, so won't be able to get into Wave 5 stuff until Tuesday at the earliest.
I've played one Vassal game using quad Nantex: two IN3 generics with Ensnare, Gorgol with Ensnare, and Fac with Treacherous and Gravitic Deflection. Comes in at 195 points, and was very, very annoying.
The chassis is basically the Separatist version of the TIE Phantom. It rewards those who are able to plan their moves several rounds ahead, and will have a very, very high skill ceiling that can be ruined by some bad green dice variance.
4 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:126 for Outmaneuver, actually. Juke wasn’t actually serious. And ****, you could probably even do better with Predator, for 122 total. Point is that it’s a perfect storm event where no amount of good flying stops a Sum Facker from kamikaze bumping into you (or just ending up near enough to reposition into Range 1), throwing you on a rock, reducing your agility, and then tossing possibly 5 dice into your face-hole if he bulls-eyes. 4 if he doesn’t line that up.
Sun Fac can't benefit from Outmaneuver, as he has no attacks which use the standard forward firing arc.
1 minute ago, PhantomFO said:Sun Fac can't benefit from Outmaneuver, as he has no attacks which use the standard forward firing arc.
You benefit from it with snap shot lol
1 minute ago, PhantomFO said:Sun Fac can't benefit from Outmaneuver, as he has no attacks which use the standard forward firing arc.
Oh snap! Good catch, I completely forgot that Outmaneuver was specific to a front (full) arc attack.
Predator it is, then.
I wish the base plates actually had the whole forward arc printed. Only having the corner piece makes it difficult to assess if something is in the arc.
5 hours ago, Naerytar said:Wedges ability is unavoidable.
Locks via Jendon are unavoidable.
Finn shenanigans is unavoidable.
The game is full of unavoidable effects.But in this case the opponent does something with YOUR ships, which somehow "isn't allowed". It's an irrational psychological reflex, nothing more. Reminds me of blue being hated in Magic the Gathering.
I doubt it's even strong enough to see top tier tournament play.Besides that: It's not even that unavoidable. You can try to stay out of R1.
And?
There's "this wins too much" and "this feels really ****** to play against." Both matter. So it's irrational? Guess what? Human beings are irrational.
Tractors are one of those mechanics where it's really worthwhile for FFG to be cautious. I think they have been with Ensnare prices.
Hot take after a few games. Sun Fac is dumb, even at 78 base. If I do a repaint, I'll probably do kill markings on him...not for kills, but for who he's one shotted. He's already done it 3 times 4 games in. Chertek is also very dumb, in fact possibly dumber because of his lower price point. Brewer Kett is pretty bad unless you just really need the I to be 5 or don't want to pay the extra to go Sun Fac, Chertek and Fac both getting a form of passive against a tractored target, does really set them apart and let them do a lot of work in a furball that Kett just doesn't.
Overall, the ship is pretty dumb, Chertek is probably undercosted...maybe Fac too even at 78.
7 hours ago, Tvboy said:Played against it at a Hyperspace Trial with Rebel B-Wing beef in the last round of swiss for the win-and-in to top 8, the thing that saved him was being able to double reposition off of being blocked. Instead of taking 2 range 1 B-Wing shots, he just had to deal with 1 range 2 obstructed shot and also got to reduce the agility of one of my ships and roll it into his kill box. The word “fully execute” needs to be errata’d onto that ship asap.
See, this is why the ship is a bundle of NPE filth. It's not because it's "new" or "different", but because it's literally playing by a different ruleset to its opponents.
It's no different from Handbrake Han and Supernatural. All of them will watch as you call their maneuver and thoroughly outplay them, only to laugh at you in Jedi/Corellian/Geonosian as they explain why it doesn't matter because the normal rules don't apply to them.
2 minutes ago, DR4CO said:See, this is why the ship is a bundle of NPE filth. It's not because it's "new" or "different", but because it's literally playing by a different ruleset to its opponents.
It's no different from Handbrake Han and Supernatural. All of them will watch as you call their maneuver and thoroughly outplay them, only to laugh at you in Jedi/Corellian/Geonosian as they explain why it doesn't matter because the normal rules don't apply to them.
To be fair, droids with grappling struts also kind of played a different game. That seems to just be the CIS thing "X-Wing is stupid, we're going to make our own game with Sabaac and hookers!"
48 minutes ago, Chudley said:I wish the base plates actually had the whole forward arc printed. Only having the corner piece makes it difficult to assess if something is in the arc.
I said the same thing the first time I played with them. You have to pop the turret arc off to even see the arc lines around the peg. No great design but I still had a blast with them. My opponent sadly did not.
2 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:
To be fair, droids with grappling struts also kind of played a different game. That seems to just be the CIS thing "X-Wing is stupid, we're going to make our own game with Sabaac and hookers!"
Pretty much every pilot with an ability ignores some of the rules and the Nantex is no different. People dislike it because it feels bad but so does Juke, Regen etc
1 minute ago, Caduceus01 said:Pretty much every pilot with an ability ignores some of the rules and the Nantex is no different. People dislike it because it feels bad but so does Juke, Regen etc
People dislike it because it can bump, turn it's turret, repo itself with a tractor, repo you with that same tractor, reduce your agility with that tractor and 2 of the pilots will have another buff on top of that. But sure, pretend everyone who thinks a ship with 5 effective actions on a bump is just people spasing out for no reason.
8 minutes ago, Caduceus01 said:Pretty much every pilot with an ability ignores some of the rules and the Nantex is no different. People dislike it because it feels bad but so does Juke, Regen etc
Juke is negated by a Focus (or at the very least a Calculate or Force). Regen was COLOSSALLY nerfed from 1st edition. And everyone hates that etc guy.
Edited by It’s One Of OursThe ability to bypass blocking is a truly bizarre design choice, and probably the biggest culprit. Once people get some more practice and we see more medium and large bases, most of the issues should be manageable, but anti-bumping mechanics should be very specific and carry drawbacks. Pinpoint Tractor Array is versatile and has a minor drawback you can turn into a bonus with certain investments.
9 minutes ago, Squark said:The ability to bypass blocking is a truly bizarre design choice, and probably the biggest culprit. Once people get some more practice and we see more medium and large bases, most of the issues should be manageable, but anti-bumping mechanics should be very specific and carry drawbacks. Pinpoint Tractor Array is versatile and has a minor drawback you can turn into a bonus with certain investments.
It makes it hard to create an effective killbox for the Nantex. I had an opponent try to create a killbox for Chertek with 4 ships. Chertek slammed on the gas and rammed 1, got barely out of the arc of another, then tossed a tractor on another and pushed it to where it couldn't shoot, so a 4 ship killbox with a block became a 1ship killbox and Chertek still got an offensive mod off the tractor and his pilot ability.
13 hours ago, heychadwick said:I think this is it, really. People love their high Init aces and hate it when something messes with them.
Agreed completely. The community on these forums, especially in one specific thread, feel that high Init ace lists are the only acceptable way to play the game. This leaves players with three factions to choose from, but Resistance/Republic are also wrong because they have regen. They want faction identity, but only one faction identity is actually acceptable,and anything that faction can't do well is obviously cheap and "not playing X-wing".
I would say they are RPing this whole thing a little bit too convincingly, but I don't think that playing ever had anything to do with it for them.
10 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:It makes it hard to create an effective killbox for the Nantex. I had an opponent try to create a killbox for Chertek with 4 ships. Chertek slammed on the gas and rammed 1, got barely out of the arc of another, then tossed a tractor on another and pushed it to where it couldn't shoot, so a 4 ship killbox with a block became a 1ship killbox and Chertek still got an offensive mod off the tractor and his pilot ability.
I feel like this should be highlighted to everyone who's trying to dismiss concerns with this ship.
A Nantex can literally just Leeroy Jenkins its way into a killbox comprising four ships and basically negate it.
Four ships.
FOUR.
Also known as AN ENTIRE FREAKING LIST.
But sure, let's pretend this is all totally fine. We should totally just git gud and find a way to play around the ship that can tractor you from range 5 after you block it. 🙄
Medium and Large based ships just make it easier to get them in Bullseye arc. Also easier to put them in the turret arc you want. They tend to have fewer green dice, which makes them easier to hit when shooting. They are also a bit easier to predict where they are going to be as their dials aren't as robust.
My first game was vs. Two Brobots and Zuckuss. He didn't even get a shot on Berwer (my only Nantex).
4 minutes ago, RebelProfundity said:Agreed completely. The community on these forums, especially in one specific thread, feel that high Init ace lists are the only acceptable way to play the game. This leaves players with three factions to choose from, but Resistance/Republic are also wrong because they have regen. They want faction identity, but only one faction identity is actually acceptable,and anything that faction can't do well is obviously cheap and "not playing X-wing".
I would say they are RPing this whole thing a little bit too convincingly, but I don't think that playing ever had anything to do with it for them.
My kingdom for an angry react...
Buddy, if this were true, we'd be embracing this ship, given we can take the initiative 6 pilot FFG gave it and play our move-last-and-wreck-face ace game with it.
But we're not, because unlike the people apologising for this ship, we're not idiots blinded by the sugar-high of how invincible it makes you feel and can recognise how BS this stupid thing is.
So take your sanctimonious crap and get lost.
Edited by DR4CO31 minutes ago, DR4CO said:I feel like this should be highlighted to everyone who's trying to dismiss concerns with this ship.
A Nantex can literally just Leeroy Jenkins its way into a killbox comprising four ships and basically negate it.
Four ships.
FOUR.
Also known as AN ENTIRE FREAKING LIST.
But sure, let's pretend this is all totally fine. We should totally just git gud and find a way to play around the ship that can tractor you from range 5 after you block it. 🙄
Split your arcs to point so that the nantex will take shots, no matter where it goes. Stop complaining, it makes you look like a bad player and a sore loser
Git gud
Edited by executor21 minutes ago, executor said:Split your arcs to point so that the nantex will take shots, no matter where it goes. Stop complaining, it makes you look like a bad player and a sore loser
Git gud
You want to know the last time I heard this crap?
People trying to describe how to fight against First Edition pre-nerf Whisper.
Want a history lesson on who ended up being correct back then?
5 minutes ago, DR4CO said:You want to know the last time I heard this crap?
People trying to describe how to fight against First Edition pre-nerf Whisper.
Want a history lesson on who ended up being correct back then?
Tbf, we heard this crap with literally everything between both editions regardless of validity
For my money, 74+ point Awing seems fine. It's not anything even remotely close to prenerf whisper's pre-positioning + four agility + defensive focus
Id bet mastershake's own Drone swarm would salivate at the thought of such a target
Honestly, more annoyed that ffg once again gave the highest I the "best" (re: free dice mods) pilot ability
Edited by ficklegreendice2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:Tbf, we heard this crap with literally everything between both editions regardless of validity
For my money, 74+ point Awing seems fine. It's not anything even remotely close to prenerf whisper's pre-positioning + four agility + defensive focus
Id bet mastershake's own Drone swarm would salivate at the thought of such a target
If you can keep him from stuttering and jumping to r1, it's a game, otherwise, he one-shots a droid every turn, so you're on a finite clock.