4 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

....I was going to say that if taking Ensnare on a unique, take it on Chertek, because he benefits so much more than Berwer Kret.

However, if those Bubblebath-22s are Feethan Ottraw Autopilots, Berwer Kret potentially uses his ability on them - if he hits, he gives them a target locked, calculating 3-dice primary attack on a tractored target. It's hard to overstate how much that could hurt, and if the Bulbasaur's draw fire of the Nantex...so much the better.

Specifically I want to try is this:

• Feethan Ottraw Autopilot - 36
• Feethan Ottraw Autopilot - 36
• Berwer Kret (GravDef, Ensnare) 61
• Sun Fac (GravDef, Trick Shot) 63

Trick Shot is going to have pluses and minuses, but I want to give it a go, see how it feels. Predator is what I'd switch to if TS doesn't feel right to me, but I figure I know bullseye somewhat, so I don't really need to test it. Turret-aces are entirely new to me.

I figure Berwer and a pair of Autopilots present a pretty scary threat. Locks aren't impossibly hard for low-init ships to get, if they don't mind crashing in fast. Heck, they can even Block/Lock, and have the target tractored away, maybe. Double-mod shots on reduced agility targets is just such a tasty temptation.

Flew sunfac, berwer (both with ensnare and pred) with 3 I1 vultures.

TB shenanigans are great fun, for me at least. My opponents didnt enjoy me throwing their ships out of arc or onto rocks though...

I really dont think sunfac is worth 80 points. I do want to try a bunch of I4 nantex, I only have 2, and Im very tempted to pick up a 3rd

5 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Locks aren't impossibly hard for low-init ships to get, if they don't mind crashing in fast. Heck, they can even Block/Lock, and have the target tractored away, maybe.

Definitely. They're a pain in the neck if you're also trying to cope with a range 2-3 range limit, but that's less of an issue with primary weapons. Pairing Kret with autopilot Bellboy-22s is a great idea.

Rather than Sun Fac, you could also take two with Grievous/Soulless One/Treacherous/Impervium Plating/Kraken

37 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

New ship + people caught by surprise = cries of npe

Call me when it does unavoidable, guaranteed damage post movement of your ships before it even uses its TLT

Should I call you when I block Soontir with Sun Fac, the tractor him into my bullseye at R1 and shoot him with s focus + Predator for 5 hits to his 2 green dice for an auto kill?....asking for a friend

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

New ship + people caught by surprise = cries of npe

Call me when it does unavoidable, guaranteed damage post movement of your ships before it even uses its TLT

Tractors seem really easy to slip into NPE, though. Mass Quadjumpers were annoying pre-nerf. Ketsu is a top-5 ship in Scum, and I'd call her really frustrating to play against. While not unavoidable damage , they are frequently unavoidable effects . I mean, Ketsu and Sun Fac both can tractor folks when they get blocked.

If people are complaining about the Nantex so much, I wonder how much they’d hate 6 Scyks led by an Predatious Serrisu with Afterburners, all equipped with Tractor Cannons... Maybe modify it so there’s an even split of Quadjumpers and Tractor Scyks.

I might name the list “John Deere Skwadrun”.

There's a huge difference between a single Nantex with Ensnare, and 3-4 of them with Ensnare.

With 3-4, it's much easier to get up killzones and put larger ships into the Tractored state. You can shuffle ships all over the board at the end of activation.

It also slows the game down a bit, as the Nantex player is constantly having to consider both their repositioning options (including whether to reposition at all), and their firing arcs if they do decide to reposition.

5 hours ago, Ablazoned said:

Yeah I so wish that ensnare were double the price and every nantex was a little cheaper. Bullseye primary with a cool pilot ability that also has a high risk/reward? Yes please!

I can confirm that ensnare is the venom that makes the Nantex bite so powerful. Without it, it's a quirky little fire-support ship that can't even block properly due to the lowest initiative being I3.

There is a very high skill floor for people who want to bring several Nantex ships into combat due to the large amount of pre-planning necessary to get the arcs pointed to where they need to be AFTER you have repositioned your ship with an ability that will leave you more vulnerable. Ensnare erases that vulnerability AND shifts it to your opponent (making it a powerhouse at ANY initiative level), but the burden of execution really is in the hands of the Nantex player.

Played against it at a Hyperspace Trial with Rebel B-Wing beef in the last round of swiss for the win-and-in to top 8, the thing that saved him was being able to double reposition off of being blocked. Instead of taking 2 range 1 B-Wing shots, he just had to deal with 1 range 2 obstructed shot and also got to reduce the agility of one of my ships and roll it into his kill box. The word “fully execute” needs to be errata’d onto that ship asap.

IMO, if there really is a problem with the Nantex, I would have to agree with others in saying that it’s Ensnare, and being able to tractor themselves to rotate their arc after having been blocked. I think they need to errata/faqing the Nantex PTA to be fully complete a maneuver. As for Ensnare... I don’t necessarily think it needs to be errata-ed or changed, but pumped up to Supernatural Reflexes’ cost on the high end would be a good idea. And make kick the lower end of Ensnare’s cost up a bit. Something more like 16 until you hit I 5, and then it becomes 24 and then 32 for I 6. They could also make it require two talent slots to take.

2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

New ship + people caught by surprise = cries of npe

Reminds me of the bull fury over the Jakku...

3 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

New ship + people caught by surprise = cries of npe

Yep. Even more general:

Econ creep: People complain
Dice creep: People complain
Control creep: People complain
Positioning creep: People complain
No creep: People complain

53 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

The word “fully execute” needs to be errata’d onto that ship asap.

I 100% agree with this statement, even if errata'ing the ship this way would mean a significant decrease in squad points.

2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Tractors seem really easy to slip into NPE, though. Mass Quadjumpers were annoying pre-nerf. Ketsu is a top-5 ship in Scum, and I'd call her really frustrating to play against. While not unavoidable damage , they are frequently unavoidable effects . I mean, Ketsu and Sun Fac both can tractor folks when they get blocked.

Wedges ability is unavoidable.
Locks via Jendon are unavoidable.
Finn shenanigans is unavoidable.
The game is full of unavoidable effects.

But in this case the opponent does something with YOUR ships, which somehow "isn't allowed". It's an irrational psychological reflex, nothing more. Reminds me of blue being hated in Magic the Gathering.
I doubt it's even strong enough to see top tier tournament play.

Besides that: It's not even that unavoidable. You can try to stay out of R1.

3 minutes ago, Naerytar said:

Wedges ability is unavoidable.
Locks via Jendon are unavoidable.
Finn shenanigans is unavoidable.
The game is full of unavoidable effects.

But in this case the opponent does something with YOUR ships, which somehow "isn't allowed". It's an irrational psychological reflex, nothing more. Reminds me of blue being hated in Magic the Gathering.
I doubt it's even strong enough to see top tier tournament play.

Besides that: It's not even that unavoidable. You can try to stay out of R1.

I've heard Sun Fac and 6 vultures already won a regional. Not sure of its size though.

3 minutes ago, Naerytar said:

Wedges ability is unavoidable.
Locks via Jendon are unavoidable.
Finn shenanigans is unavoidable.
The game is full of unavoidable effects.

But in this case the opponent does something with YOUR ships, which somehow "isn't allowed". It's an irrational psychological reflex, nothing more. Reminds me of blue being hated in Magic the Gathering.
I doubt it's even strong enough to see top tier tournament play.

Besides that: It's not even that unavoidable. You can try to stay out of R1.

It’s very difficult to stay out of R1 of an Initiative 6 pilot who you can’t effectively block, and will get to move your ship and reduce your agility by 1, at no penalty to itself. Sun Fac can be very good. About the best thing you can do is have a ship that is so unpredictable that he has no idea where you could possibly end up... e.g. Super Dalan Osborne.

25 minutes ago, Naerytar said:

Wedges ability is unavoidable.
Locks via Jendon are unavoidable.
Finn shenanigans is unavoidable.
The game is full of unavoidable effects.

But in this case the opponent does something with YOUR ships, which somehow "isn't allowed". It's an irrational psychological reflex, nothing more. Reminds me of blue being hated in Magic the Gathering.
I doubt it's even strong enough to see top tier tournament play.

Besides that: It's not even that unavoidable. You can try to stay out of R1.

Yeah even more so, Attack/Agility/Shield/Hull stats are "unavoidable". Instead of 4 ships with good econ you can fly 5 ships or 4 beefier ships (with a proper 3die front arc)

It's funny how people partition some forms of value and decide they should be shut down by XYZ while others shouldn't.

3 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

Should I call you when I block Soontir with Sun Fac, the tractor him into my bullseye at R1 and shoot him with s focus + Predator for 5 hits to his 2 green dice for an auto kill?....asking for a friend

You blocked Soontir? You deserve that kill 10,000%

2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

You blocked Soontir? You deserve that kill 10,000%

Not really, he only has a handful of blues especially if he wants to go in a specific direction. It's not like the Nantex that gets 3-4 actions without stressing itself.

18 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

You blocked Soontir? You deserve that kill 10,000%

I agree with you on that sentiment.

But what if Sun Fac doesn’t have initiative, and he aims for being blocked by Soontir. Not an excessively difficult task when you’ve got 4 to 7 ships and the scrum is happening. Sum Facker then eats a tractor to barrel roll off of Soontir, takes an Evade as an action, end of activation transfers the John Deere token onto Soontir to tractor him into bullseye, and proceeds to throw 5 red dice at a 2 agility Soontir with Juke active, because **** it why not give the Nantex two EPTs while we’re at it?

19 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

I agree with you on that sentiment.

But what if Sun Fac doesn’t have initiative, and he aims for being blocked by Soontir. Not an excessively difficult task when you’ve got 4 to 7 ships and the scrum is happening. Sum Facker then eats a tractor to barrel roll off of Soontir, takes an Evade as an action, end of activation transfers the John Deere token onto Soontir to tractor him into bullseye, and proceeds to throw 5 red dice at a 2 agility Soontir with Juke active, because **** it why not give the Nantex two EPTs while we’re at it?

Even in a dream scenario like that Sun Fac would statistically do less damage than Wedge firing a fully modded Proton Torp. And that's MUCH easier to do.

Edit: In fact, he would do less damage than anyone firing a fully modded PT, not just Wedge.

19 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

I agree with you on that sentiment.

But what if Sun Fac doesn’t have initiative, and he aims for being blocked by Soontir. Not an excessively difficult task when you’ve got 4 to 7 ships and the scrum is happening. Sum Facker then eats a tractor to barrel roll off of Soontir, takes an Evade as an action, end of activation transfers the John Deere token onto Soontir to tractor him into bullseye, and proceeds to throw 5 red dice at a 2 agility Soontir with Juke active, because **** it why not give the Nantex two EPTs while we’re at it?

He doesn't get an action after bumping regardless of whether he stays bumped.

5 minutes ago, Naerytar said:

Even in a dream scenario like that Sun Fac would statistically do less damage than Wedge firing a fully modded Proton Torp. And that's MUCH easier to do.

Edit: In fact, he would do less damage than anyone firing a fully modded PT, not just Wedge.

Fully modded proton torpedoes require either another ship Coordinating or providing a Target Lock (or Focus, thanks Garvin), or a previous turn to set up.

Sun Fac doesn’t get Target Locks, and the Evade-Juke is for a lark because Focus and Outmaneuver would be the better course of action; but Wedge also can’t throw Soontir onto an Asteroid with his Proton Torpedo. Throw enough spaghetti at a wall with a traktor cannon, and something’s going to eventually explode. My not-at-all Italian grandmother taught me that.

17 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

He doesn't get an action after bumping regardless of whether he stays bumped.

That’s super neato, but he will in fact get an action in the form of taking a tractor and have the ability to take a rotate turret action. He may not get to do a Focus or Evade despite shifting himself off of a bump, but for 42pts you can get a “Glorious Squad Leader” Hive Guard that will let him do it beforehand.

3 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

That’s super neato, but he will in fact get an action in the form of taking a tractor and have the ability to take a rotate turret action. He may not get to do a Focus or Evade despite shifting himself off of a bump, but for 42pts you can get a “Glorious Squad Leader” Hive Guard that will let him do it beforehand.

Sun Fac with Ensnare and Juke with that Squad Leader is 127 points. That does almost nothing if it can't get to range 1 and is a grand total of 8 HP. Also I really wouldn't count the turret rotate as some sort of amazing free action. It's a necessary component to the ship considering otherwise all it has is a bullseye.

You could also just take some medium or large ships if he's that much of a threat. God forbid high-I small bases actually have a bad matchup. Soontir is 55 usually, he should get beaten in a 1v1 by a 78 point ship.