1 minute ago, syrath said:

Agreed, I'll often not play any more than that.

Is it because multiple pathfinders are bad?

3 minutes ago, ResoluteHusky said:

Is it because multiple pathfinders are bad?

Think of it this way. 18 points over a basic Rebel Trooper squad for a range 1-4 attack, red dice at range 1-2, better defense, and the ability to deploy on an objective.

That’s just good. If a player can’t figure out how to play that, it’s user error, not the core dynamics being a problem.

1 minute ago, Derrault said:

Think of it this way. 18 points over a basic Rebel Trooper squad for a range 1-4 attack, red dice at range 1-2, better defense, and the ability to deploy on an objective.

That’s just good. If a player can’t figure out how to play that, it’s user error, not the core dynamics being a problem.

So would 3 pathfinders be good? I always wanted to try it but people on the forums seemed to think it was a bad idea

3 minutes ago, ResoluteHusky said:

So would 3 pathfinders be good? I always wanted to try it but people on the forums seemed to think it was a bad idea

I mean, it depends entirely on the objective and the use right? I’d happily run 3, especially on something like Recover the Supplies (getting to start in good positions at/around several of the objectives vs having to run your butts over to them is equivalent to several free actions) or Breakthrough, getting to start near an enemy deployment zone.

Three end up being nearly 300 pts and the third unit doesn't have a heavy option. I'd not recommend three to begin with. If you find you like the playy style with it you might find it worthwhile

1 hour ago, Derrault said:

Think of it this way. 18 points over a basic Rebel Trooper squad for a range 1-4 attack, red dice at range 1-2, better defense, and the ability to deploy on an objective.

That’s just good. If a player can’t figure out how to play that, it’s user error, not the core dynamics being a problem.

preach!

21 hours ago, Tirion said:

she is a defensive tank as far as rebels are concerned. she is one of the most survivable pieces in the game versus Pierce, she prevents your entire any from being supressed or panicking for a turn (also while helping stack up your danger sense), tied for highest courage of any Commander not Vader, has a great weapon. what's not to love. just don't over infiltrate

I guess you and I don't really agree on how functionally good she is. She doesn't have terrible defense, she has terribly average defense. She isn't immune to Pierce unlike Luke. Unlike Sabine who not only get red dice but also roll extra dice for pierce attacks, she has to once again wait to be hit to get any extra defense here. In melee she doesn't get the suppression at all in fact which means in melee she is really no different than say Han. If she has 3 suppression it effectively equates to around 1 extra block. She just has too many "ifs" to her defensive equation.

I don't find her ability to keep an army from being suppressed to be functionally useful. I rarely have to worry about an entire army being suppressed, I usually have to worry about 1 or 2 units in key situations during a turn. Her suppression removers require a command card which requires more skill to know when to use. Leia or a generic commander can let you remove suppression on the fly and have arguably more versatile command cards.

All of this ignores her true weakness causing damage to the enemy. That being said just because I don't like her doesn't mean she doesn't have strengths, I just think for her price she is still an overall subpar unit.

9 hours ago, oaicart said:

do you think that Jyn and one unit of Pathfinders with Pao es enough to learn how to play them?

I’d say yes. I only have Jyn and one Pathfinder unit. I’ve stopped adding Pao or Bistan to save the points for more important units. The more points you add to the Pathfinders, the more crucial they are to your game plan and I don’t think that’s wise.

I have not used multiple Pathfinders yet and I’m not sure it would even be good. Once you have one unit of them and Jyn down, it may be hard to find a good place to Infiltrate. If I’m only effectively getting Scout-1, I’d rather have Rebel Troopers with a Z-6.

8 hours ago, buckero0 said:

I've always had her die to stormtroopers' fire. I have sent her into melee for protection only to have the stormtrooper out-hit me and jyn die

I’m not sure I’ve had her die to Stormtrooper fire, but I’ve definitely had her wiped out in one turn and it doesn’t feel good. But at 114pts (with D&C), it stings less when that happens. I find she becomes much more effective with pretty much any other commander/operative on the board too. She tends not to be a high priority target and to me her and her command cards get stronger as the game progresses.

9 hours ago, oaicart said:

do you think that Jyn and one unit of Pathfinders with Pao es enough to learn how to play them?

I’d say yes. I only have Jyn and one Pathfinder unit. I’ve stopped adding Pao or Bistan to save the points for more important units. The more points you add to the Pathfinders, the more crucial they are to your game plan and I don’t think that’s wise.

I have not used multiple Pathfinders yet and I’m not sure it would even be good. Once you have one unit of them and Jyn down, it may be hard to find a good place to Infiltrate. If I’m only effectively getting Scout-1, I’d rather have Rebel Troopers with a Z-6.

8 hours ago, buckero0 said:

I've always had her die to stormtroopers' fire. I have sent her into melee for protection only to have the stormtrooper out-hit me and jyn die

I’m not sure I’ve had her die to Stormtrooper fire, but I’ve definitely had her wiped out in one turn and it doesn’t feel good. But at 114pts (with D&C), it stings less when that happens. I find she becomes much more effective with pretty much any other commander/operative on the board too. She tends not to be a high priority target and to me her and her command cards get stronger as the game progresses.

9 hours ago, oaicart said:

do you think that Jyn and one unit of Pathfinders with Pao es enough to learn how to play them?

I’d say yes. I only have Jyn and one Pathfinder unit. I’ve stopped adding Pao or Bistan to save the points for more important units. The more points you add to the Pathfinders, the more crucial they are to your game plan and I don’t think that’s wise.

I have not used multiple Pathfinders yet and I’m not sure it would even be good. Once you have one unit of them and Jyn down, it may be hard to find a good place to Infiltrate. If I’m only effectively getting Scout-1, I’d rather have Rebel Troopers with a Z-6.

8 hours ago, buckero0 said:

I've always had her die to stormtroopers' fire. I have sent her into melee for protection only to have the stormtrooper out-hit me and jyn die

I’m not sure I’ve had her die to Stormtrooper fire, but I’ve definitely had her wiped out in one turn and it doesn’t feel good. But at 114pts (with D&C), it stings less when that happens. I find she becomes much more effective with pretty much any other commander/operative on the board too. She tends not to be a high priority target and to me her and her command cards get stronger as the game progresses.

1 hour ago, Uetur said:

I guess you and I don't really agree on how functionally good she is. She doesn't have terrible defense, she has terribly average defense. She isn't immune to Pierce unlike Luke. Unlike Sabine who not only get red dice but also roll extra dice for pierce attacks, she has to once again wait to be hit to get any extra defense here. In melee she doesn't get the suppression at all in fact which means in melee she is really no different than say Han. If she has 3 suppression it effectively equates to around 1 extra block. She just has too many "ifs" to her defensive equation.

I don't find her ability to keep an army from being suppressed to be functionally useful. I rarely have to worry about an entire army being suppressed, I usually have to worry about 1 or 2 units in key situations during a turn. Her suppression removers require a command card which requires more skill to know when to use. Leia or a generic commander can let you remove suppression on the fly and have arguably more versatile command cards.

All of this ignores her true weakness causing damage to the enemy. That being said just because I don't like her doesn't mean she doesn't have strengths, I just think for her price she is still an overall subpar unit.

average how? her defense is literally better than every single rebel trooper unit in the game outside of some corner cases with han (this assumes duck and cover).

never said she was better against Pierce than Luke or Sabine, though at times she is, just said she was one of the best.

Why are you using get in melee....? no where an I saying to use her in melee, though you make her seem way worse than she is.

so saving those couple units in a key turn from suppression doesn't matter? Also you say how hard it is to get supression on her but after one attack and this card she has two.I have found getting two actions on key unit or two on a scoring round or a key turn to be amazing. yeah inspire is great but you have to be in range 2 while this is global, best for tauntans or Pathfinders. also she is one of only a handful of units in the game that can attack more than once per round.

how is she weak at dealing damage?!?!? This is just factually untrue. Her pistol is the best rebel hero weapon against light cover in the game. second best in no cover, and second best in heavy cover. her rifle is the only rebel Commander gun to shoot at range 3.

fyi pao is almost equal to z6 in his damage alone, plus you get range 4 and inspire for the same cost..... not sure where all this talk of he's not worth it is coming from.

23 minutes ago, Tirion said:

fyi pao is almost equal to z6 in his damage alone, plus you get range 4 and inspire for the same cost..... not sure where all this talk of he's not worth it is coming from.

Boston could be fun in a vehicle heavy meta , you could even split fire with him, although I'd consider Hunter instead of Duck &Cover , I feel a suppression heavy meta coming especially with Imperial players.

6 minutes ago, syrath said:

Boston could be fun in a vehicle heavy meta , you could even split fire with him, although I'd consider Hunter instead of Duck &Cover , I feel a suppression heavy meta coming especially with Imperial players.

it's already here where I play

8 minutes ago, Tirion said:

it's already here where I play

Of course I meant Bistan though, one of the few recover weapons I would like to use, how about fire supporting him for 12 white 5 black pool with impact 1 and ion. Even rounds where his gun isn't recovered the whole unit hits for 10 white.

Edit for those not not maths inclined that's 8.625 average wounds and with impact 1 Ion 1 critical 2 that makes for an average vehcle hit of 5.125 hits into armor.¡ll

9 hours ago, oaicart said:

do you think that Jyn and one unit of Pathfinders with Pao es enough to learn how to play them?

I’d say yes. I only have Jyn and one Pathfinder unit. I’ve stopped adding Pao or Bistan to save the points for more important units. The more points you add to the Pathfinders, the more crucial they are to your game plan and I don’t think that’s wise.

I have not used multiple Pathfinders yet and I’m not sure it would even be good. Once you have one unit of them and Jyn down, it may be hard to find a good place to Infiltrate. If I’m only effectively getting Scout-1, I’d rather have Rebel Troopers with a Z-6.

8 hours ago, buckero0 said:

I've always had her die to stormtroopers' fire. I have sent her into melee for protection only to have the stormtrooper out-hit me and jyn die

I’m not sure I’ve had her die to Stormtrooper fire, but I’ve definitely had her wiped out in one turn and it doesn’t feel good. But at 114pts (with D&C), it stings less when that happens. I find she becomes much more effective with pretty much any other commander/operative on the board too. She tends not to be a high priority target and to me her and her command cards get stronger as the game progresses.

9 hours ago, oaicart said:

do you think that Jyn and one unit of Pathfinders with Pao es enough to learn how to play them?

I’d say yes. I only have Jyn and one Pathfinder unit. I’ve stopped adding Pao or Bistan to save the points for more important units. The more points you add to the Pathfinders, the more crucial they are to your game plan and I don’t think that’s wise.

I have not used multiple Pathfinders yet and I’m not sure it would even be good. Once you have one unit of them and Jyn down, it may be hard to find a good place to Infiltrate. If I’m only effectively getting Scout-1, I’d rather have Rebel Troopers with a Z-6.

8 hours ago, buckero0 said:

I've always had her die to stormtroopers' fire. I have sent her into melee for protection only to have the stormtrooper out-hit me and jyn die

I’m not sure I’ve had her die to Stormtrooper fire, but I’ve definitely had her wiped out in one turn and it doesn’t feel good. But at 114pts (with D&C), it stings less when that happens. I find she becomes much more effective with pretty much any other commander/operative on the board too. She tends not to be a high priority target and to me her and her command cards get stronger as the game progresses.

9 hours ago, oaicart said:

do you think that Jyn and one unit of Pathfinders with Pao es enough to learn how to play them?

I’d say yes. I only have Jyn and one Pathfinder unit. I’ve stopped adding Pao or Bistan to save the points for more important units. The more points you add to the Pathfinders, the more crucial they are to your game plan and I don’t think that’s wise.

I have not used multiple Pathfinders yet and I’m not sure it would even be good. Once you have one unit of them and Jyn down, it may be hard to find a good place to Infiltrate. If I’m only effectively getting Scout-1, I’d rather have Rebel Troopers with a Z-6.

8 hours ago, buckero0 said:

I've always had her die to stormtroopers' fire. I have sent her into melee for protection only to have the stormtrooper out-hit me and jyn die

I’m not sure I’ve had her die to Stormtrooper fire, but I’ve definitely had her wiped out in one turn and it doesn’t feel good. But at 114pts (with D&C), it stings less when that happens. I find she becomes much more effective with pretty much any other commander/operative on the board too. She tends not to be a high priority target and to me her and her command cards get stronger as the game progresses.

Oops, my browser was showing that I hadn’t replied.

1 hour ago, syrath said:

Of course I meant Bistan though, one of the few recover weapons I would like to use, how about fire supporting him for 12 white 5 black pool with impact 1 and ion. Even rounds where his gun isn't recovered the whole unit hits for 10 white.

Edit for those not not maths inclined that's 8.625 average wounds and with impact 1 Ion 1 critical 2 that makes for an average vehcle hit of 5.125 hits into armor.¡ll

I need to check that seems way too high

16 minutes ago, Tirion said:

I need to check that seems way too high

It is. Nothing hits that high. 12 white and 1 black without an aim into a coverless, dodgeless, armorless target does 5.125 damage.

Edit. Even with a MK 2 blaster supporting you still only get 7.625 hits against a target like the previous one. Against armor without cover or dodge you do get the damage they listed, but that's still going to be a difficult setup to pull off considering the frailty of the mk 2.

7 minutes ago, Tirion said:

I need to check that seems way too high

Okay 4 pathfinders roll double white for 8 Bistan adds 1 black 4 white , fire supporting for the 4 black for. The mk2 blaster. So 5 black 12 white. Since pathfinders surge to hit we get 3 hits out of 8 for ever white (12 dice for 36) and 5 hits on of 8 on black (5 dice for 25) totalling 61 hits out of every 8 attacks 17 of which will be criticals and 17 of which will be surges and 27 will be regular hits .

61 divide by 8= 7.625 (so you are correct my maths was out)

However of those 17/8 are crits for 2.125 crit hits and 2.125 surge hits so against Armor you get 2.125 crits 2.125 surges (2 convert to crit s by critical 2) and impact 1 converts a hit to a crit for 2.125 +2 +1 Vs armor= 5.125 hits on armor.

Sorry for the miscount but still impressive damage. It gets better with Hunter (and maybe targeting scopes here though as being able to re-roll 1-2 black and a white or two works very well , just ask stormtroopers.

2 minutes ago, thepopemobile100 said:

It is. Nothing hits that high. 12 white and 1 black without an aim into a coverless, dodgeless, armorless target does 5.125 damage.

You missed that I mentioned fire supported, which means an additional 4 black.

3 minutes ago, syrath said:

You missed that I mentioned fire supported, which means an additional 4 black.

I corrected myself. That setup is still incredibly unlikely to happen.

Just now, thepopemobile100 said:

I corrected myself. That setup is still incredibly unlikely to happen.

Is it? Rebel Veterans with an HQ uplink and recon can sit a mk2 blaster 8 inches outside your deployment zone , with advanced positions you can add another move 1 onto that. You can drop the Bistan unit just outside range 3 recon that also to range 3 then play sabotaged communications, hq uplink the veterans and get a face up order token on your Mk2 blaster and turn 1 blast your target for 7.625 (5.125 impact) average damage without the aim , park on an occupier tanks side and you can land 6.125 hits on it before they can even activate..

Don't see how that is so hard to set up.