Has anyone ever used Brilliant Evasion to any effect? Am I right to think it's overpriced?

Quite good on Luke, but it's rare to see it on anything else.

I've had good luck using it on CLT Deltas.

3 hours ago, Pa Weasley said:

I've had good luck using it on CLT Deltas.

I don't seem to be able to use it at all

I like it on CLT Obi-Wan. It doesn't go off very often but it is really nice when it does. 3 doesn't feel too expensive on a CLT jedi, although 2 wouldn't feel too cheap (1 point certainly would feel too cheap).

I've put it on CLT Aethersprites, and thought it was OK, but that was mostly because there wasn't really anything else to put on them that made sense. I'd probably go with Foresight or nothing, moving forward.

I'd say it'd be good on Vader or Kylo Ren or maybe even TIE/v1s, but Hate is just probably better. They're both "force efficiency" talents, but Hate is the same price and will almost always trigger during a game (and if it doesn't, eh, who cares?).

Brilliant evasion is a trap. At least on current force pilots. How many times with a force pilot are you in the situation where you meet all of the following criteria:

-you're being shot at in the first place.

-you roll more then one eyeball.

-converting one eyeball isnt enough to stop all damage.

-you have a force spare regardless.

-you don't have a focus.

Would b mediocre at 0 points

3 hours ago, player2072913 said:

Brilliant evasion is a trap. At least on current force pilots. How many times with a force pilot are you in the situation where you meet all of the following criteria:

-you're being shot at in the first place.

-you roll more then one eyeball.

-converting one eyeball isnt enough to stop all damage.

-you have a force spare regardless.

-you don't have a focus.

That's not inherently a trap. That's ~Heroic levels of consistency, and should be costed accordingly

I have this metal Brilliant Evasion card that perfectly captures its essense.

10 minutes ago, Squark said:

That's not inherently a trap. That's ~Heroic levels of consistency, and should be costed accordingly

Its better than heroic on defense by 0.02 damage, requires a force, and doesn't work on offense.

Costed accordingly is 0

6 hours ago, player2072913 said:

Brilliant evasion is a trap. At least on current force pilots. How many times with a force pilot are you in the situation where you meet all of the following criteria:

-you're being shot at in the first place.

-you roll more then one eyeball.

-converting one eyeball isnt enough to stop all damage.

-you have a force spare regardless.

-you don't have a focus.

Good point, but there are times when you have something like: Vader is low on Force and disengaging, but is still maybe in somebody's arc after barrel-rolling. So you reluctantly spend a Force to get a Focus (delaying your Force recovery a turn), or risk that your green dice roll nothing but eyeballs and you take damage needlessly. Brilliant Evasion solves that dilemma because you can choose not to have the Focus and still have the fallback of the Force doing double duty on defence if you need it.

I haven't tried this myself to see how often it works out in practice, but being able to use a Force as an almost-Focus on defence, with no condition except not being in opponent's bullseye (which should usually be the case anyway with an ace pilot), feels like a good thing to have.

I like brilliant evasion on kylo with advanced optics

In this way kylo can spend his focus in attack beeing shure to have 2 "focus like" force tokens in defence if he doesn't dodge all the arcs but he still want to modify his attack dices

7 hours ago, player2072913 said:

Brilliant evasion is a trap. At least on current force pilots. How many times with a force pilot are you in the situation where you meet all of the following criteria:

-you're being shot at in the first place.

-you roll more then one eyeball.

-converting one eyeball isnt enough to stop all damage.

-you have a force spare regardless.

-you don't have a focus.

The only pilot that is not affected by this is Luke.

The comparison to Heroic is apt. 1 point would be fine, 3 is not.

6 hours ago, prauxim said:

Would b mediocre at 0 points

This all over. It's so unlikely to actually do anything useful and even when it does the likelihood is it just saves you a single force.

It's aggressively mediocre at 0 and hilariously bad at anything over 1.

I believe that 0-point Brilliant Evasion would be bad, but that's more philosophical than anything. I don't like 0-point "might as well include it as not" upgrades. It's fine for configurations (where the cost is built into the ship), but I consider the ideal for a 0-point upgrade as R5-TK. How bad does it have to be to cost 0-points? It lets you kill your own ships faster, and nothing else. Brilliant Evasion, while not really worth 3 points, it does mathematically provide a benefit. Sure, it's somewhat Heroic-like (better than Heroic would be on a 3-green ship, worse on a 2-green ship), but there's a bunch of folks out there who think Heroic is underpriced, because even 1 point is too much of an auto-include.

As far as Force Talents go, enough Jedi and Lukes and Vaders leave the slot empty, so the "oh, but the cost is giving up the slot" argument really falls flat. 1 point gives the player a choice between BE and something else, and there should almost always be choice. 0-point, non-useless stuff shouldn't exist.

//

As to the benefit, I think the right way to investigate it is this case on the Gate of Storms damage calculator: 3 certain hits vs 3 green dice, with 1 force and 1 focus.

http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/multi/?d=kwAAAAAAAAAC&a1=MQAAAAACAAAA

84.4% of the time, green dice will roll in such a way that you'll keep a focus token. So you'll spend it 15.6% of the time; that is, 1`5.6% of the time a single Force is insufficient. So in about 1 out of 6 attacks, Brilliant Evasion can either prevent a damage, or save a force charge. Again, not amazing, but certainly lot R5-TK price levels.

The cost of BE is usually that you're not bidding with the points.

Any point cost is probably not worth the loss of a point of bid, since in any given game, the chances of a point of bid saving you a point of damage by letting you arc dodge/choose how you use your tokens with more information, if higher than that of BE saving you a point of damage.

BE is so bad, y'all.

19 hours ago, Skitch_ said:

I like it on CLT Obi-Wan. It doesn't go off very often but it is really nice when it does. 3 doesn't feel too expensive on a CLT jedi, although 2 wouldn't feel too cheap (1 point certainly would feel too cheap).

wouldn't just.... taking a focus and spending a force get you the exact same effect, but without spending 6 points on a useless upgrade? I feel like CLT obi is the LAST place i'd put brilliant evasion lol.

13 hours ago, prauxim said:

Its better than heroic on defense by 0.02 damage, requires a force, and doesn't work on offense.

Costed accordingly is 0

I think it's worth it at 1 for the sake of juke still existing in the game. But it's still a bad 1 pt like most builds with munitions failsafe, not a good 1 pt like Crackshot. The only card that should be free is jamming beam. It's acknowledging that you have the cannon slot when it's left empty. Useful against Vynder.

21 hours ago, Skitch_ said:

I like it on CLT Obi-Wan. It doesn't go off very often but it is really nice when it does. 3 doesn't feel too expensive on a CLT jedi, although 2 wouldn't feel too cheap (1 point certainly would feel too cheap).

One would feel useable in my eyes.

Its worse then heroic which is one.

Its not worth 3pts. I have used it in 4 games with CLT anakin and it triggered once in those 4 games. Anakin is more dodgier than others though, so maybe it triggers twice in 4 games for other ships. 3pts is lot, and would rather have those spent someplace else. Two more pts gets you sense, 1 more pt for foresight, or more 1 measly pt you could have predictive shot that can be used about as much as brilliant evasion when you take a range 3 shot through a rock at soontir or something.

3 hours ago, DarthSempai said:

wouldn't just.... taking a focus and spending a force get you the exact same effect, but without spending 6 points on a useless upgrade? I feel like CLT obi is the LAST place i'd put brilliant evasion lol.

I understand why BE seems especially like a waste on Obi, but my thinking is that I can always intend to use my focus on offense and not HAVE to spend another force to get another focus because I may not need it. This way I only spend another force if I have to - I end up only converting one eye most of the time, but those few times I have converted two with BE have been great. It is just a way for me to potentially save a force if I can and still be pretty well covered with what a focus on defense would do.

22 hours ago, player2072913 said:

Brilliant evasion is a trap. At least on current force pilots. How many times with a force pilot are you in the situation where you meet all of the following criteria:

-you're being shot at in the first place.

-you roll more then one eyeball.

-converting one eyeball isnt enough to stop all damage.

-you have a force spare regardless.

-you don't have a focus.

Anakin Delta 7

1 point is where it's at. 0 points and it just literally makes force more mathematically efficient and becomes 100% autoinclude, which this game doesn't need. Free cards right now are things like the Ghost title, Jamming Beam, and R5-TK. All of these are so situational that the slot is left empty about as often as the upgrade is taken, just because the potential use is comparable to the effort of remembering/transporting the extra card.

• A good new candidate for 0 points: Ruthless - it's fairly hard to proc, you're already paying for the talent slot, and it hurts you more than your enemy on average (not to mention it just makes sense for Empire to have a passive damage-your-subordinate ability). It's literally never taken at 1. At 0, it becomes a reasonable choice.

• A bad candidate for 0 points - Brilliant Evasion. It makes your dice/force mathematically better and would always be used. Heroic proves these rolls do happen and when they do they can be life-saving. The tiny investment is quite often worth it, and this probably has more usefulness than Predictive Shot, which is sometimes taken at 1 point (1.1% of lists) and has been performing above average (27th percentile, rank 108 on ListFortress).