3 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:I personally found the autoblaster combo more degenerate (dealt 4 auto damage because your ship simply exists at a range 1 turret bubble ), but I agree.
That was the other one. I knew there wasn't just the TLT thing with 1E Ghost. Thanks.
15 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:In a whole year of play there’s some combo we just haven’t noticed yet?
Like not one person? For a whole ship? When has this happened even in 1.0?
Not exactly what I’m saying. There are lots of crew options that are a tad expensive and likely to come down. I think the ship does need to come down a couple points (2-4 depending on pilot).
But once you do both of those things, you quickly cross some useful thresholds: you have more room for wingmen, which makes your support abilities more useful, you have more room to explore options like advanced sensors, which is normally shut out by what fits.
Sometimes a small nudge will do a lot of good, especially combined with a few other small nudges.
Oops. Double post.
Edited by ClassicalMoserTriple Post.
Edited by ClassicalMoserQuadruple post. This is embarrassing.
Edited by ClassicalMoser... Quintuple post...
Edited by ClassicalMoser... Is this a new record? ...
Edited by ClassicalMoser2 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:I personally found the autoblaster combo more degenerate (dealt 4 auto damage because your ship simply exists at a range 1 turret bubble ), but I agree.
I think autoblaster was okay. But with the title and accuracy corrector it was not okay at all.
7 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:I think autoblaster was okay. But with the title and accuracy corrector it was not okay at all.
Agreed. With the VCX it was more a perfect storm of card combination, than anything else. Whereas with TLT Y-Wing spam, it was really just a bad design.
Edited by It’s One Of Ours59 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:I think autoblaster was okay. But with the title and accuracy corrector it was not okay at all.
Accuracy Corrector was probably about the worst thing to come out of 1st edition. Such a sad piece of design...
12 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:Accuracy Corrector was probably about the worst thing to come out of 1st edition. Such a sad piece of design...
The funny thing was it wasn’t all that good to begin with. As a Sensor slot upgrade, it competed with the free-TL Fire Control System, and Advanced Sensors. Indeed it even came with the Starviper, and it was supposed to represent the Virago’s advanced targeting systems. The picture on the card was even Guri in the Virago!
It wasn’t until something successfully blended Accuracy Corrector with Autoblasters, in such a way that wasn’t a B-wing struggling to get into Range 1. Cue the Ghost and some mad genius realizing he could take the Ghost, the Phantom, Zeb as crew, Autoblaster Turret, Accuracy Corrector, and aim for 4 automatic damage a turn on anyone within a range 1 death bubble.
9 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:It wasn’t until something successfully blended Accuracy Corrector with Autoblasters, in such a way that wasn’t a B-wing struggling to get into Range 1. Cue the Ghost and some mad genius realizing he could take the Ghost, the Phantom, Zeb as crew, Autoblaster Turret, Accuracy Corrector, and aim for 4 automatic damage a turn on anyone within a range 1 death bubble.
I fully confess I tried it once, not realizing how entirely degenerate it was. Combined with Anti-Pursuit lasers on Hera, I annihilated my father-in-law's Talonbane Cobra in one turn. It was just sad. I never flew a docked Attack Shuttle after that, and I never had before that. I also don't think I ever used TLT on a Ghost. 1st edition made a lot of un-fun games.
That said, I kinda did the same thing yesterday with a pair of Feedback Array/Static Discharge Vanes YV-666s. That combo is pretty broken, especially clocking in at 66 points. If you manage to bump any small ship head-on, it auto-dies and there's pretty much nothing anyone can do about it. Still left room in my list for a Lancer with Zuckuss and the title.
Seriouslly, why isn't Scum Beef a thing? The large-base generics are stupid kinds of cheap, and the YV's arc-coverage is totally next-level. 4 feedback array jumpmasters leave 8 points to tinker with. 4 CYT1300s with feedback array even fit! Talk about trading health 1-1! It's seriously punishing.
Edited by ClassicalMoser17 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:I fully confess I tried it once, not realizing how entirely degenerate it was. Combined with Anti-Pursuit lasers on Hera, I annihilated my father-in-law's Talonbane Cobra in one turn. It was just sad. I never flew a docked Attack Shuttle after that, and I never had before that. I also don't think I ever used TLT on a Ghost. 1st edition made a lot of un-fun games.
That said, I kinda did the same thing yesterday with a pair of Feedback Array/Static Discharge Vanes YV-666s. That combo is pretty broken, especially clocking in at 66 points. If you manage to bump any small ship head-on, it auto-dies and there's pretty much nothing anyone can do about it. Still left room in my list for a Lancer with Zuckuss and the title.
Seriouslly, why isn't Scum Beef a thing? The large-base generics are stupid kinds of cheap, and the YV's arc-coverage is totally next-level. 4 feedback array jumpmasters leave 8 points to tinker with. 4 CYT1300s with feedback array even fit! Talk about trading health 1-1! It's seriously punishing.
Scum beef tends to be short on shielding. And in the case of the bulldozer YV-666 (party bus), it tends to be a one trick pony that telegraphs its intent the minute it hits a table. Plus there’s the bit about Feedback Array having to be at Range 0 (bump), and if you whiff or if your opponent out-flies you, then they’re just a nice sitting duck that will have severe problems turning around.
But probably the biggest reason you don’t see Static Discharge Feedback Arrays a whole lot, is because Feedback Array, and the YV-666, are not currently Hyperspace legal.
22 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:Scum beef tends to be short on shielding. And in the case of the bulldozer YV-666 (party bus), it tends to be a one trick pony that telegraphs its intent the minute it hits a table. Plus there’s the bit about Feedback Array having to be at Range 0 (bump), and if you whiff or if your opponent out-flies you, then they’re just a nice sitting duck that will have severe problems turning around.
But probably the biggest reason you don’t see Static Discharge Feedback Arrays a whole lot, is because Feedback Array, and the YV-666, are not currently Hyperspace legal.
While it's definitely true that the intent is clearly telegraphed, I found that there isn't that much you can do to avoid it.
You can do what he did and try to K-turn past them, but if I pull a 0 stop you weren't expecting or a slide my Lancer right up behind, that doesn't work out too well for you, and you've just lost your entire ship. Three large-base ships can take up a lot of space. If you're not actively running away, that space can cover your entire range of maneuver options (barring something like Supernatural or AS Guri).
The only alternative is trying to run around the sides to flank them, but that's a large-base 180° arc you're trying to dodge, and this thing can make stress-free hard turns, so the area coverage is real, especially when there are two of them. And that's not to mention that if you're running away from them, you're not shooting at them and they are shooting at you, which is a pretty pleasant situation for the bus drivers to find themselves in; they can just focus and shoot without bothering about the pesky and volatile reinforce.
And while you're trying to run around them, the Shadow Caster is Zucking all your evades away and Blue-3-turning after you, with free tractors any time they hit (that might put you back in the path of the YVs).
Edited by ClassicalMoserI think there’s quite a lot that can be done to at least minimize it. A good proton torp volley can shut down a YV-666 within the first engagement without having to get too close. And the Ion Tarpit of Death effect really only deletes a ship if the ship’s ion maneuver hits the base. A sacrificial Initiative 1 tie (or Vulture, or Z) can take a bump after pulling a turn maneuver, and set themselves up to drift out of the quagmire (if it lives). I would say that as a list goes, Feedback Static Arrays are probably most dangerous to low ship count ace lists. An expendable brick of swarm ships however could sacrifice one to take the bump, while the rest all bump into him and chew away at the big ship. At that point the YV has to decide if it’s going to release the hostage and shoot the other ships, or die to papercuts.
Edited by It’s One Of Ours29 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:While it's definitely true that the intent is clearly telegraphed, I found that there isn't that much you can do to avoid it.
You can do what he did and try to K-turn past them, but if I pull a 0 stop you weren't expecting or a slide my Lancer right up behind, that doesn't work out too well for you, and you've just lost your entire ship. Three large-base ships can take up a lot of space. If you're not actively running away, that space can cover your entire range of maneuver options (barring something like Supernatural or AS Guri).
The only alternative is trying to run around the sides to flank them, but that's a large-base 180° arc you're trying to dodge, and this thing can make stress-free hard turns, so the area coverage is real, especially when there are two of them. And that's not to mention that if you're running away from them, you're not shooting at them and they are shooting at you, which is a pretty pleasant situation for the bus drivers to find themselves in; they can just focus and shoot without bothering about the pesky and volatile reinforce.
And while you're trying to run around them, the Shadow Caster is Zucking all your evades away and Blue-3-turning after you, with free tractors any time they hit (that might put you back in the path of the YVs).
When locals get this idea in their heads I just run Zeb On Intimidation Heff for a few weeks.
7 hours ago, TasteTheRainbow said:That’s a pretty decent one close to the right level, but it’s pretty boring is my point.
But my point is that a free action is a pretty massive buff for anyone.
On 9/16/2019 at 7:50 AM, TasteTheRainbow said:Everyone who wants ~85 points of bruiser has a dozen better options. And they’re not a little bit better. They are substantially better.
Man, so many good points and ideas here. As a Rebel player, and huge fan of the show, I’ve been wanting VXC to work, somehow. Hera/Niem doing fancy flying I think is the way to go, but this comment is so true. There is nothing the VCX can do that simply Nora(Ywing)+torpedos can’t do at half the price, and tanker. 🤷♂️
The Decimator is strong with the passive attack mods, plus having good support ships. I think that is what the VCX is missing, can’t bring support ships.
So do my two cents is a price reduction on the VCX and on the Phantom title.
Edited by CcwebbThe main advantage of the decimator over a VCX is that you aren’t always flying at them. You get actions without spending 10 points on advanced sensors. You get to swing those side arcs around and consistently get shots on a target.
12 hours ago, theBitterFig said:But my point is that a free action is a pretty massive buff for anyone.
Yea. It needs a massive one.
22 hours ago, It’s One Of Ours said:But then again for 84 pts you can get two Dorsel Turret Y-Wings with Veteran Tail Gunners.
^^THIS is the crux of the issue for the Ghost in particular, but more generally for all large bases.
Why would I take this big clunky Ghost that does nothing special, when I can take 2 Y-wings that gives me an extra gun (2 with VTG), 2 extra cumulative green dice, and more effective HP that I can split up to divide my opponents targeting?
Separate from that issue, looking at the successful large bases, they all have a gimmick that makes them valuable. RAC has an ability that grants a free mod on reinforce, compounded with access to Tua. He protek and atak. Han Solo has an inherent dice mod that can act as a target lock AND bolster crew abilities like Lando and R2D2, along with i6 and the only large base boost action. Ketsu has control modifiers with her neat tractor ability and high initiative coupled with a fantastic dial and 2 green dice. The Lambda is dirt cheap with enough bulk to hang around long enough for its great support abilities (be that pilot or crew or both) to make a difference. Same goes for the Upsilon for the most part.
The Ghost has none of this. All the ships above are complimented by the upgrades that are added to them and enhance their gimmicks, whereas the Ghost relies upon them to have any worthy abilities to start with. Kanan has a cool ability, but needs a turret or sheathipede to extend his arcs to really use it effectively, Hera also has a cool ability but has no repositioning, and realistically needs the likes of Nien and/or intel agent to make effective use of it. Chopper is fine, but realistically you want a BFG like the Ghost at range 1 not range 0. The ghost in its base form doesn't do anything except drop a 4 die gun on the table. It suffers from the same issue as the Starfortress in that its a sum of it parts, and has nothing of substance to offer in its base form. Even its ship ability essentially costs 34pts on top of its base cost (AP-5 plus title). Right now that sum total costs too much to be worth it.
Hopefully Kallus has a cool ability that is self sufficient and can be enhanced by upgrades rather than rely on them. Overall I think costing will help, but overall I think its just not a competitive design and costing will only help so much.
Just a thought, looking at the Huge Ships again in the new article...
Would a single recurring shield be crazy on the VCX? It would sortof negate.. a single unmodded two die attack each turn? But it certainly wouldn’t make 2-die ships worthless against it.
Edited by SpiderManaThe cova+R4 buff means Hera/Nien is dead... confirmed today
On the plus side, ion buff means vtg is happy
2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:On the plus side, ion buff means vtg is happy
Yup. Especially Hera. She can shut down passive sensors and lots of other action shenanigans that trigger at engagement.