16 hours ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

Straight points reduction would let you run three in a list and I’m not sure that’s a great idea as we saw with triple upsilons.

I'm pretty sure Hera and Kanan are fine. Generic maybe a little overpriced. But I do want to point out that triple Upsilons was a problem due to the setup shenanigans, nobody's really mad at three Upsilons in general that have to actually plan out and set up their engage.

That being said triple ghost might well be unhealthy for the game, but I really don't think it would pose the same NPE potential.

Is there any nice way of telling the large-ship, high-point value, MTG-combo-wombo turreted players that their style really is a pain in the butt for everyone to play with?

10 hours ago, Ccwebb said:

I’m a little slow, what Hera/Nien nerf?

Well, this one is kinda "pending" nerf we might see with some upcoming FAQ post.

In short, if Cova (Resistance Transport) + R4 interaction will be explained as valid (so far has been allowed on European Championship but invalidated at GenCon) it would invalidate Hera + Nien interaction as they need two opposing rulings on how persistent manouvre difficulty modificators interact with the content of the ship's dial.

10 hours ago, Ccwebb said:

[Whoops, double-post]

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

Is there any nice way of telling the large-ship, high-point value, MTG-combo-wombo turreted players that their style really is a pain in the butt for everyone to play with?

Yet it is a stellar archetype of the Star Wars Saga, in all movies and several other content. Having it absent is bad; it breaks a promise of the game.

Hopefully FFG will find a way to make it moderately competitive and fun to play and play against.

6 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

To be clear, I never ever want to go back to BS TLT Hera 1.0. That was some straight up BS right there.

.

Same. I flew dual VCX lists. Never with tlt. I used them off-meta and they were kind of okay. That is not their current situation at all.

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

Is there any nice way of telling the large-ship, high-point value, MTG-combo-wombo turreted players that their style really is a pain in the butt for everyone to play with?

That’s not the kind of VCX I ever flew. I’m not looking for that. I’m looking for options that aren’t 30% less efficient than the average meta list.

3 hours ago, Kieransi said:

I'm pretty sure Hera and Kanan are fine. Generic maybe a little overpriced.

Look at the last two months of extended for those pilots. Or the last year. They are very far from fine.

10 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

The only big ships I can think of that see lots of play is the Lambda and Batwing.

Rebel Han is around a fair amount. Lambda is very common. And people are making Whisper-RAC a thing again. Don't forget Tavson or Ketsu, either.

5 hours ago, Ryfterek said:

Well, this one is kinda "pending" nerf we might see with some upcoming FAQ post.

In short, if Cova (Resistance Transport) + R4 interaction will be explained as valid (so far has been allowed on European Championship but invalidated at GenCon) it would invalidate Hera + Nien interaction as they need two opposing rulings on how persistent manouvre difficulty modificators interact with the content of the ship's dial.

Yeap, that's what I meant. it seems that in Europe, Hera + Nien doesn't work anymore, as when you reveal hera's dial, banks are still white

16 hours ago, Ccwebb said:

I’m a little slow, what Hera/Nien nerf?

15 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Heck if I know. Nien Numb crew is a continuous effect that alters the dial itself, so they still synergize. Maybe that he alters the banks instead of the straights now is what they're referring to.

Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I answered it just above this post

11 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

The only big ships I can think of that see lots of play is the Lambda and Batwing.

As support ships.

Which might be an OK thing for a game that is about dogfighting in starfighters. . .

Until FFG says explicity that Hera and Nien can't go together, I will assume they do.

About what the VCX needs... perhaps a new pilot is needed... perhaps Agent Kallus will be the chose one after all.

Destiny, it seems, is not without a sense of irony...

4 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

As support ships.

Which might be an OK thing for a game that is about dogfighting in starfighters. . .

I feel the same about the emperor of the galaxy flying around without an entire wing protecting him. But who am I hey 🙂

4 hours ago, RoockieBoy said:

Yeap, that's what I meant. it seems that in Europe, Hera + Nien doesn't work anymore, as when you reveal hera's dial, banks are still white

I assure you that Hera/Nein still work fine in the UK. (Whether that counts as Europe any more is a different argument...)

Also: Ketsu, various Falcons, an occasional Sith Infiltrator, and Decimators are regular sightings.

4 hours ago, RoockieBoy said:

Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I answered it just above this post

Okay. Wow it is a /facepalm and a half that FFG EU OP has as hard a time as they do wrapping their head around such a basic game concept like continuous effects (any effect that does not state a specific timing).

27 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Okay. Wow it is a /facepalm and a half that FFG EU OP has as hard a time as they do wrapping their head around such a basic game concept like continuous effects (any effect that does not state a specific timing).

I was going to say something similar. What was their whole R4 Cova thoughts? As far as I can read in my best Australian, R4 and Nien work the same way? Reveal dial, manoeuvre is made blue by upgrade card. Or white in R4+Cova story.

3 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

I was going to say something similar. What was their whole R4 Cova thoughts? As far as I can read in my best Australian, R4 and Nien work the same way? Reveal dial, manoeuvre is made blue by upgrade card. Or white in R4+Cova story.

I think they believe that R4/Nien only apply during the Activation Phase like General Organa and other "while (x) executes" effects...

7 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

I think they believe that R4/Nien only apply during the Activation Phase like General Organa and other "while (x) executes" effects...

No wonder the Brits want Brexit so much 😳 , that’s just weird.

all jokes aside, I’m surprised that FFG has not cleared this up already. World wide game should have world wide rules.

5 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

No wonder the Brits want Brexit so much 😳 , that’s just weird.

all jokes aside, I’m surprised that FFG has not cleared this up already. World wide game should have world wide rules.

Errata and Conflicts

If there is a conflict when resolving a game effect between different translations and/or printings of cards, the most recent English printing takes precedent. The most recent cards can be found in the FAQ and in the X-Wing Squadbuilder.

30 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

No wonder the Brits want Brexit so much 😳 , that’s just weird.

all jokes aside, I’m surprised that FFG has not cleared this up already. World wide game should have world wide rules.

Yeah I've read into the arguments (there was a crazy long thread on it). There's an extremely rules-lawyery argument that all increase/decrease difficult effects only apply to execution, just because of a subsection is structured. It's a dumb argument.

Regarding the VCX, I don't think it would take a huge points drop to make it quite good. RAC, Han, and Ketsu are all true meta pilots now (and possibly even need a small hike). Lambdas and Upsilons have been great for quite a while. The YV-666 and the other two YT1300s are about average and while not meta have been performing quite reasonably in recent events. The Jumpmaster and YT-2400 are still basically unplayable, and the VCX is only a little better. Points Fortressing isn't really a thing without passive defensive mods and/or extreme action economy. The biggest problem with these three are that their price to action economy ratio is terrible. The Jump has no offense, the VCX and YT2400 have no defense.

The Decimator has been saved almost singlehandedly by RAC, who can reinforce every turn and still mod his attacks quite well (Oicunn is still not doing well). VCX builds are still stuck as something quite gimmicky and a bit too matchup-dependent. Either it's depending on ramming or it's depending on formations or initiatives that it just might not get.

About 85% of ships in the game have found at least some top-tier competitive builds, which is a really fantastic thing for the game, but it makes that 15% stick out a little more painfully. Not only that, but in about half of those ships, it's a single pilot that's making that happen (Ketsu, Teroch, Rey, Soontir, etc.). They really need to revisit the pricing of the pilots within each chassis even more than they need to revise the chassis's own pricing.

Also I've always been against the idea of making ships limited in number. It tends to lead to more min/maxing than otherwise. If a base ship chassis is underpriced, you'll see it because the spam list will actually be good (which shouldn't be a thing; it means its superefficient and doesn't have a hard counter, which would give it a reason to diversify). That makes it easy for the devs to see and correct; spam lists shouldn't be good and generally aren't, and there's a reason for that.

Additionally, from an ideological perspective, a ship is either worth the points or it isn't. Changing how many you can take doesn't change that. If it's too cheap, it will get taken in too many lists, even if you can only take one. Spam lists aren't good because each chassis has a bad matchup, a blindspot, or a hard counter (or else it's underpriced). I'm not worried about a 4x Jumpmaster meta (even with passive torps) for two reasons: First, I doubt the scout needs to go down by that much to be competitive, and second, that archetype already exists and hasn't proven too OP. There hasn't been a single spam list that has proved problematic where the ship itself wasn't underpriced in isolation already, and most threshhold-crossings people have been concerned about never turned out to be a problem. 6x TIE/sf isn't seen anywhere because 5 with passive is better. 3 E-Wings with Protorps hasn't been a thing. 4 passive naboos or Star wings with Protorps also haven't been a thing. I will make one concession: Upgrades that have a force-multiplying effect such as Juke: It works better the more of it you have. Those things have to be either very expensive or limited (and I can see an argument for limiting Juke). Multiple chasiss can't have a force-multiplying effect though. That's really not how they work.

In short, points-based balancing really does work . If it's not good, it needs a reduction. Maybe a large one, maybe a small one. Changes to slots etc. can be done to fix problematic or NPE builds but spam lists don't worry me. 6x Alpha Interceptors are definitely fine and probably still very bad (much worse than Inferno swarms). 3x YT1300 generics isn't a problem and probably won't ever be. 3x YV-666 seems to be just okay from everything we've seen and has much more coverage than the VCX. The VCX needs a price decrease. 3 points or so would probably have it solidly in the meta; yes, such incremental changes really do make a big difference.

It's pretty simple, really.

VCX is a ship that is made in listbuilding, not actual flying the ship. Its either going to not be competitive or else will be everywhere and OP and we will all complain about it. It wont take much skill flying the ship as it has no repositioning, and it if its competitive means it has 1 or two passive mods, so people will only need to decide on like two actions, reinforce or lock. It will be an autopilot ship when it is competitive which will open the netlister floodgates.

25 minutes ago, wurms said:

VCX is a ship that is made in listbuilding, not actual flying the ship. Its either going to not be competitive or else will be everywhere and OP and we will all complain about it. It wont take much skill flying the ship as it has no repositioning, and it if its competitive means it has 1 or two passive mods, so people will only need to decide on like two actions, reinforce or lock. It will be an autopilot ship when it is competitive which will open the netlister floodgates.

The problem with net lists are that, if your bad or don’t practice the list, a net list can only do so much. Time and again you see players play them, but they don’t understand the intricacies if it, which can make it just a bad list.

I want to try Chopper+zeb crew VTG VCX. It’s probably bad, but I think it could be fun.

I think someone will eventually figure out what else to put into a squad with Kanaan with Sense and Cassian Andor. That's a saucy combo just begging to be broken powerful.

I think part of the problem is that in order to make the Ghost a support ship you have to sink so many points that you don’t have much to support once you’re done. Looking at the star killer base generic at 58, I wouldn’t mind seeing the generic coming down to around 62-64. I think if you can build a big beefy coordinate for around 100 points you should be able to make a competitive 3 (technically 4 but the idea is to never undock) ship list out of it.