15 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

Just a thought, looking at the Huge Ships again in the new article...

Would a single recurring shield be crazy on the VCX? It would sortof negate.. a single unmodded two die attack each turn? But it certainly wouldn’t make 2-die ships worthless against it.

That's an interesting idea. I think it would have to maybe have a reveal and fully execute a blue maneuver restriction or something though. Maybe a Chopper ability with charges.

I just keep looking at the pilot abilities and crew/gunner abilities for Hera, Kanan, Zeb, Sabine, Chopper, and Ezra and think if you got all of that or most of it and dorsal turret and a bomb or torpedo for 200 points as more or less the Ghost/Phantom on its own I'd fly the heck out of it.

Maybe have to combo it up a bit but let Phantom pilots ability apply to the ship. Zeb's crew ability as Zeb gunner so you put Zeb in the shuttle and get the cancel crits first and take Ezra gunner or vice versa it getting to attack at range zero with Zeb gunner and force use for Ezra on bonus attacks when stressed. You get both Hera crew and Hera pilot since you're only one ship. The stress lets you keep Ezra active and makes you choose between using force for defense (removing stress with Kanan to avoid damage for extra stress tokens) or attack. Ghost against the world. As long as I'm dreaming I'd like a pony too.

A bit more down to Lothal though. What about just letting the chosen shuttle pilot's ability and any crew apply to Ghost when docked? Or letting the shuttle's shield and or hull count to the Ghost while docked? Or count when getting hit by enemy ships in rear arc?

1 hour ago, Frimmel said:

I just keep looking at the pilot abilities and crew/gunner abilities for Hera, Kanan, Zeb, Sabine, Chopper, and Ezra and think if you got all of that or most of it and dorsal turret and a bomb or torpedo for 200 points as more or less the Ghost/Phantom on its own I'd fly the heck out of it.

Sadly, they really don't work all that well together. For example, it seems Maulzra could be good. You use force to defend, take a damage, stress, use force to attack twice, with a reroll on the turret attack! Except it only works if you're shooting last, or you won't be stressed for the reroll or get the extra force. So maybe it's good on Chopper, along with ramming? Except Zeb only works for primary attacks, so you can't even use the turret except maybe out your side...

And the problem is that every combo I've tried is the same way. Sabine doesn't do anything for the squad either, in terms of synergy. She can be a nice flanker or blocker with Intimidation, but she just costs too much for how easily she goes pop.

Personally, as much as I like Hera thematically, her pilot ability is lame and un-fun, and the Hera/Nien combo is degenerate and unthematic anyway, even if it isn't actually "good." Maybe Kallus has something to offer the chassis. Until then it just needs to be a tad cheaper.

6 hours ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

Yup. Especially Hera. She can shut down passive sensors and lots of other action shenanigans that trigger at engagement.

Would you bother with Hera now that Nien doesn't work though??

7 hours ago, SpiderMana said:

Just a thought, looking at the Huge Ships again in the new article...

Would a single recurring shield be crazy on the VCX? It would sortof negate.. a single unmodded two die attack each turn? But it certainly wouldn’t make 2-die ships worthless against it.

Problem would be you bring back the old 1.0 Miri effect, wherein people are forced to not shoot at it for a couple turns (because they simply drifted out of range or couldn't walk into the arc or Hera straight-up arc dodged you) and suddenly it's back to full shields.

This was not a well-liked mechanic in 1.0.

10 minutes ago, BVRCH said:

Would you bother with Hera now that Nien doesn't work though??

I think he might still work if you start from a real blue and adjust to a Neined blue.

but no, I wouldn’t bother taking her to anything competitive regardless

11 minutes ago, BVRCH said:

Would you bother with Hera now that Nien doesn't work though??

Current consensus is that Hera and Nien do work, just start with an actual blue...curses! Ninja'd again!

24 minutes ago, DR4CO said:

Problem would be you bring back the old 1.0 Miri effect, wherein people are forced to not shoot at it for a couple turns (because they simply drifted out of range or couldn't walk into the arc or Hera straight-up arc dodged you) and suddenly it's back to full shields

I get that... but it’s also a large based ship, 0-agility, and at best has a Turret and reinforce, but that’s assuming it gets and action and wants to spend the points on the Turret.

4 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

I get that... but it’s also a large based ship, 0-agility, and at best has a Turret and reinforce, but that’s assuming it gets and action and wants to spend the points on the Turret.

Not to harp on the Miri comparison, but "she's just a 1-agility ship with a Focus" was a pretty common refrain when she first came out.

The thing about regen is that it makes even seemingly innocuous defensive profiles into tanks. It's sounds easy when you say it's just a large-based ship with 0 agility and a reinforce, but then you suddenly realise it's become a 20-health large-based ship with a reinforce and you're not even finished with it yet.

54 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

I think he might still work if you start from a real blue and adjust to a Neined blue.

but no, I wouldn’t bother taking her to anything competitive regardless

52 minutes ago, Gilarius said:

Current consensus is that Hera and Nien do work, just start with an actual blue...curses! Ninja'd again!

Fair enough.

24 minutes ago, DR4CO said:

Not to harp on the Miri comparison, but "she's just a 1-agility ship with a Focus" was a pretty common refrain when she first came out.

The thing about regen is that it makes even seemingly innocuous defensive profiles into tanks. It's sounds easy when you say it's just a large-based ship with 0 agility and a reinforce, but then you suddenly realise it's become a 20-health large-based ship with a reinforce and you're not even finished with it yet.

Fair. I wasn’t very active yet when Miranda was reining, so I don’t have a particularly personal familiarity with her.

I guess it’s just been my experience with Hera that she loses half of her health in one turn almost without fail. But I’m also being aggressive and not trying to fly her like a regen ace...

7 hours ago, SpiderMana said:

Fair. I wasn’t very active yet when Miranda was reining, so I don’t have a particularly personal familiarity with her.

I guess it’s just been my experience with Hera that she loses half of her health in one turn almost without fail. But I’m also being aggressive and not trying to fly her like a regen ace...

I've used her in 2 modes:

1) add a turret, Saw, and Veteran TG and be ultra-aggressive, she shoots 3 times (max) but occupies their list whilst yours gets to shoot unopposed. Big problem is that's usually either one good ship or 2 weak ones so loses most of the time.

2) add Biggs, AP5 or Advanced Sensors, and a Selfless carrier, plus her upgrades. This makes her much harder to kill and she becomes the end-game ship. Loses to anything that can break up your Biggs bubble, or kill him very quickly.

She's too many points to leave enough for the rest of a decent list, but dropping points for VCXs risks spamming 3 or making the list too good.

I think errata-ing the title to either grant the pilot ability or the shields or both (like with Lando's Falcon) or reducing the cost of a docked Phantom but only allowing emergency undocking (like with Hound's Tooth) would be a good buff to try.

Yeah, I like those ideas.

One build I enjoyed, despite having trouble winning with it, was Hera+Lando. I think I usually gave Lando Nein, sometimes Engine Upgrade... Hera loaded up with any number of combos. The free action for Lando was huge to get Hera mods, making her hit a load harder right off the bat, sometimes having a reinforce along with offensive mods.

32 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

Yeah, I like those ideas.

One build I enjoyed, despite having trouble winning with it, was Hera+Lando. I think I usually gave Lando Nein, sometimes Engine Upgrade... Hera loaded up with any number of combos. The free action for Lando was huge to get Hera mods, making her hit a load harder right off the bat, sometimes having a reinforce along with offensive mods.

I've lost to Lando and Hera.

You can also fit Airen Cracken in if you just put a turret on Hera and Nien on Lando.

I also like AP-5/Composure Hera, and you can put a bit on her and still fit Luke or Corran with Protorps as a nice hammer to her anvil. Again, maybe not the most competitive, but.

15 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

I also like AP-5/Composure Hera, and you can put a bit on her and still fit Luke or Corran with Protorps as a nice hammer to her anvil. Again, maybe not the most competitive, but.

Two Snap Phoenix fits. Thematic too!

If going for thematic and maybe even competitive:

VCX-100 Light Freighter - •Hera Syndulla - 79
•Hera Syndulla - Spectre-2 (73)
•Leia Organa (6)

RZ-1 A-wing - •Arvel Crynyd - 37
•Arvel Crynyd - Green Leader (34)
Intimidation (3)

RZ-1 A-wing - •Jake Farrell - 37
•Jake Farrell - Sage Instructor (36)
Crack Shot (1)

Sheathipede -class Shuttle - •Ezra Bridger - 47
•Ezra Bridger - Spectre-6 (42)
Sense (5)

Total: 200/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

You get double mods on Heras attack and white K turns (or Ezra going back with white)

I really feel, while we wait, we should do more like the above. Post your best lists that have performed well for you and see if we can replicate your success. From there we might find out what needs adjusting by finding out the strength of the model.

How about this? (Made for lolz in another thread.

T-65 X-wing - •Wedge Antilles - 81
•Wedge Antilles - Red Two (55)
Swarm Tactics (5)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
R4 Astromech (2)
Afterburners (6)
Servomotor S-foils (Open) (0)

VCX-100 Light Freighter - •Hera Syndulla - 106
•Hera Syndulla - Spectre-2 (73)
Crack Shot (1)
Collision Detector (6)
Dorsal Turret (3)
Seasoned Navigator (7)
•Nien Nunb (5)
Shield Upgrade (3)
• Ghost (0)
Veteran Turret Gunner (8)

Total: 187/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

I found one ray of hope. Hera w/advanced sensors and Saw can absolutely wreck every nantex. If they become popular she might see some regular play.

On 9/20/2019 at 9:19 PM, LUZ_TAK said:

How about this? (Made for lolz in another thread.

T-65 X-wing - •Wedge Antilles - 81
•Wedge Antilles - Red Two (55)
Swarm Tactics (5)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
R4 Astromech (2)
Afterburners (6)
Servomotor S-foils (Open) (0)

VCX-100 Light Freighter - •Hera Syndulla - 106
•Hera Syndulla - Spectre-2 (73)
Crack Shot (1)
Collision Detector (6)
Dorsal Turret (3)
Seasoned Navigator (7)
•Nien Nunb (5)
Shield Upgrade (3)
• Ghost (0)
Veteran Turret Gunner (8)

Total: 187/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

Waaaaaaaay too heavy on upgrades, especially on Hera. Those will burn down before you can turn around. Neither one is dancey, and 2-ship lists have to be or they don't stand a chance against swarms. Infernos would eat that for lunch in 4 rounds or so.

Hera needs ICT, not Dorsal. The extra die makes a bigger difference than the ability to do straight damage; the ion hits more often in the first place, and if you do get double hits, ion is just as good as damage, especially on a lumbering list like this. Collision Detector is 100% wasted points. It's great on a Lambda, but the Ghost doesn't need it. For the VCX it's either AS or nothing (except maybe PS on a Lothal Rebel, but I think Magva is better). Seasoned Navigator is throwing even more good points after bad; Hera's ability is plenty for maneuver-changing; you don't need to double down on it so hard, and you already have Nien Nunb anyway.

Something similar but probably a bit more viable:

Hera Syndulla (VCX-100) (73)
Intimidation (3)
Advanced Sensors (10)
"Zeb" Orrelios (1)
Magva Yarro (8)
Luke Skywalker (62)
Precognitive Reflexes (10)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)
Phoenix Squadron Pilot (30)
Intimidation (3)
Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z61X122W111WWW65W51WWWY4X250WWWW142Y53X122W&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Luke Dances, Hera Rams, and the Phoenix blocks for both. Reduced agility from 1 or 2 intimidations is enough to bite through and block aces, but you'll still struggle against swarms. Hera wants to Reinforce with AS and then ram, relying on Magva's lock and 5 naked red dice for damage-dealing. Reinforce shrugs off enough damage that you can make it bite, though coordinate support would help out some.

I also like running Hera with a U-Wing, always either Cassian or Saw. She'll almost always get plenty of rerolls off of Saw's ability, or Cassian can keep her de-stressed so she's free to run reds as much as she wants, making her crazy kinds of maneuverable with AS.

The VCX in general is pretty tanky, but it's no Decimator and definitely no mYT-1300. If you're building it over 100 points, you're definitely hurting yourself.

Has anyone had success with Fat Han/Kanan? TS, R2-D2, Title, Engine in Han and maybe a turret on Kanan for his ability?

Let me start by apologizing for the minor necro, but with the Ghost seeing its 2.0 rerelease and the amazing job they did with the detachable shuttle, this remains a conversation worth having.

I love the ghost. I loved it when Rebels first aired, I loved it in X-Wing, I just love the ship. It feels like a perfect blend of Firefly and Star Wars, and the Ghost just feels “Star Wars” in a way few things have in the last decade. I know that’s a point of contention, just my personal opinion here.

So in 1.0 I played the ghost from the second Wave 8 dropped, all the way up until the Lancer dropped (and even then my time was split between Ghost lists and Asajj lists). The Ghost is what got me to move away from Dash/Miranda builds, and nothing else was released for Rebels that caught my attention quite the same way. Ahsoka in Sabine’s TIE was close, but that could easily fit into a Ghost list anyway 😜 .

I get the degeneracy concerns. I ran as my main list:

Kanan (FCS, TLT, Jan, Rec Spec, title)

Sabine Attack shuttle (Predator, Title)

Biggs

When I was playing a less competitive and more friendly game, I swapped TLT for Dorsal and tossed a Tactical Jammer on Kanan and integrated astromech/R2-D6/Crack Shot on Biggs. Eventually this became my go-to build as the TLT cancer became more prevalent. TLT moaning is also what caused me to only run my Asajj/2 TLT thugs for tournaments, meaning the Ghost was my go to for most games.

It was an enormously fun list to fly, and most of my opponents found it interesting, but not frustrating. It was a sort of puzzle to solve, involving finding a way to burn down Biggs before the Ghost ran roughshod over the opponent’s list. IIRC I had a decent win/loss record with the list, and almost every game that wasn’t against the real degenerate nonsense of later 1.0 was a blast to play.

Now in 2.0, I can’t build anything close to that list. I don’t have a problem by and large with that, making such a giant target nigh unkillable for a few rounds is not great for the 2.0 mindset. My problem is that once I put together a fluffy, fun ghost build with one of the shuttles, there is nothing left for competent wingmen. I can throw some Bandits in there, maybe some A-Wings if I strip Kanan down or run Hera instead. 2 ship lists are viable in 2.0, but only if you can leverage 2 powerful attacks, which you can’t get without stripping down the Ghost. At that point it barely feels like the Ghost, so why am I not just running Luke with Torps or Norra?

Particularly because my main factions in 2.0 are Republic and Resistance, I would really only be drawn back to Rebels if I could pull off some kind of Ghost list that feels like the Ghost.

All of this is a long winded way of me saying that it needs something. I don’t know what, but I do know that Kanan is frustratingly expensive. I know why (I play a lot of Republic, I know how good Force charges are), and Ezra/Maul/Hate Kanan did seem decent before the Hate nerf. I don’t know if the answer is switching to Hera or what, I just want to play a Ghost + Phantom list that doesn’t feel gimped from the start.

On the one hand, I feel like the Ghost will really shine in Epic play, when there is much more room to fit in a kitted our ship like that. Having a docked Sheathipede gives you a free coordinate on a platform that is more maneuverable than huge ships and still has one heck of a punch. On the other hand, I have horrible premonitions of a Raider tearing a Ghost apart with ease.

Ultimately, I just don’t know. I want the Ghost to be better, but I don’t know how to do it. I will say that for folks saying the title should be cheaper, if 2 points is the break point, just don’t take the phantom title. Am I reading it correctly? All that means is that you can’t re-dock. If you start the game docked you are fine, and once you deploy the shuttle, it just can’t dock again (and how often does that happen?).

Update for everybody who was pretty sure they had at least a niche bump because of the Nantex meta.

There were 0 VCX-100’s in Day 2 of World’s. They need something for sure, and lower points isn’t a realistic way to do it.

I'd say bring back the original statline of the VCX, it lost 2 sheilds in the move to 2nd - yet a comparable ship like the Upsilon retained its statline.

The more I think of the Ghost, the less I think it works in standard play. Even naked, it's a huge points sink and even more to utilize everything it can do. Unless some special privileges are given to it where upgrades cost less SPECIFICALLY for it, it's going to get destroyed fast... like bringing a horse to a demolition derby.

I really think it will shine in Epic where it can be given more upgrades and have it's full potential unlocked.