4 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Losing 33% offense does not a generally superior platform make

The Arc crushes the Y in the role of a bruiser/jouster what have you.

The Y, as you identified, is a superior (cheaper) upgrade platform

Except Probably for C3po. Tractor changes and superior pilot abilities make him seem a lot better on an Arc than on r2d2

Sure, but 2 dice isn't even that bad..? Like, honestly? I don't see much more success in 3 dice VS 2 dice, but that's just me. Mind you, I tend to fly ships firmly in that 2 dice range. Thing about ARCs is that they handle like a **** mule. At least Y-Wings have a real turret to compensate for that.

2 dice primary is pretty bad

Not "literally worthless" (first edition), but "bad" relative to the ship's cost

Example:

Torrent, 2 dice; 25 points --> good!

Btl-b, 2 dice; 33 points --> FAR less good

Arc, 3 dice AND 2 dice aux arc; 42 points --> yey

Why does it matter? Green dice

Especially with all the Jedi out there modding to their heart's content, and because of aces in general.

I really can't fathom how anyone kills anything with a lone 2-die ship, apart from like juke Anakin (trying him out! Tanky!). It's why I also can't imagine bothering with dorsal over ion for only two more points. I guess if it's the difference between an essential upgrade on your ace?

Also, i3 snap torrent is 35. Probably vastly outperforms a dorsal y

Finally, the Y's blues are a tragedy. Basically need r4 unless you're Broadsides and just sidewinding all day. Arcs got good blues built in

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

Losing 33% offense does not a generally superior platform make

yeah.

PEOPLE REALLY DONT UNDERSTAND THIS.

57 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Sure, but 2 dice isn't even that bad..? Like, honestly? I don't see much more success in 3 dice VS 2 dice, but that's just me. Mind you, I tend to fly ships firmly in that 2 dice range. Thing about ARCs is that they handle like a **** mule. At least Y-Wings have a real turret to compensate for that.

its really bad. take it from someone who's been teaching people the focus rule for years. my numbers are good.

46 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Finally, the Y's blues are a tragedy.

Yeah. I can't believe we're back to 1.0 Y wing dials...

This ship was kind of... a big blast of meh. The upgrades kind of save it, but meh. And then the 2 point increase in cost? yikes. With that dial... I'm almost arguing it should be the same cost.

30 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Yeah. I can't believe we're back to 1.0 Y wing dials...

This ship was kind of... a big blast of meh. The upgrades kind of save it, but meh. And then the 2 point increase in cost? yikes. With that dial... I'm almost arguing it should be the same cost.

I'd just straight up argue it

As fun as plated hull is, it's not actually that amazing since defender modifies red dice first. Any crit mods (most famously, atc and protorps) go right through it

Plus, the price difference between everything and Broadsides is either too small or WAY too vast to really justify other options.

The potential is there (matchatick especially has a RIDICULOUS ability), but paying 58 to enable it (ict, vet gunner; r4) isn't terribly justifiable. Sooner go Wolfe everytime, even c3po Wolfe for the sake 58!

So yeah, personal opinion:

Matchstick/oddball -4 cost (matchstick being 7 points over Broadsides is pretty silly)

Broadsides -perfect

Everyone else -2

Bananakin? Dunno if he's just meant to be a meme in general. Gotta be careful what you wish for with i6 force...

50 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

its really bad. take it from someone who's been teaching people the focus rule for years. my numbers are good.

So, what, we shouldn't have any ships below three dice value? I mean any time this comes up everybody goes on and on and on about just how horrid two dice attacks are.

Meanwhile RZ-2s (and NOT just L'ulo), TIE/SFs, and similar ships, **** near rule the roost.

It doesn't add up, Blail. Two dice is not that bad.

4 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

So, what, we shouldn't have any ships below three dice value? I mean any time this comes up everybody goes on and on and on about just how horrid two dice attacks are.

Meanwhile RZ-2s (and NOT just L'ulo), TIE/SFs, and similar ships, **** near rule the roost.

It doesn't add up, Blail. Two dice is not that bad.

Course it doesn't add up if you're completely disregarding what the other ships do 😛

i don't think the Y has a prayer of even remotely imitating the manueverability of an rz-2 or even an SF!

Those two are also made extra swanky with built in "rear arcs" that you don't have to pay points for pay an action to rotate (since they're linked actions, even though the rz-2's is red)

On the other hand, a similarly clunky ship like the Torrent is also FAR superior with two dice than the Y because it's cheap!

I could get a snapshot blue for 35 points! That's like TWO 2-die primaries!

11 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

The potential is there (matchatick especially has a RIDICULOUS ability), but paying 58 to enable it (ict, vet gunner; r4) isn't terribly justifiable.

🤨 For reference:

"Lock( )

Ships can lock to use their computer to acquire targeting data on environmental hazards or other ships. When a ship performs a action, it acquires a lock. A LOCKING ship is a ship that is attempting to acquire a lock by performing the following steps:

Measure range from the locking ship to any number of objects.

Choose another object at range 0-3.

Assign a lock token to it with the number matching the ID marker of the locking ship.

An object is LOCKED while it has at least one lock token assigned to it. Lock tokens are red tokens. While a ship has another ship locked, it follows this rule:

During the Modify Attack Dice step of a ship's attack, it can spend a lock token that it has on the defender to reroll one or more of its attack dice.

Additionally:

When a ship is instructed to BREAK a lock it has, the lock token corresponding to its ID token is removed.

While acquiring a lock, it fails only if there is no valid object to choose.

A ship cannot acquire or have a lock on itself.

An object can be locked by more than one ship.

A ship can maintain only one lock. If a locking ship already has a lock, before the chosen object would be assigned a lock token, the ship's former lock token is removed.

If an ability instructs a ship to acquire a lock, this is different than performing a action. A ship that acquires a lock without performing the action can still perform the action this round.

If a ship is instructed to acquire a lock, the object it locks must be at range 0-3 unless otherwise specified."

So Lock tokens are red tokens and you can acquire locks on friendlies.

Matchstick:

Matchstick doesn't specify the "owner" of the red tokens be the opponent.

What do all of these have in common?

Why the **** are people focusing on stressing Matchstick when they have 4/5ths of the faction's ship options that'll rarely if ever use ordinance???? Lock him with your own ships and call it a day...

2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Course it doesn't add up if you're completely disregarding what the other ships do 😛

i don't think the Y has a prayer of even remotely imitating the manueverability of an rz-2 or even an SF!

Those two are also made extra swanky with built in "rear arcs" that you don't have to pay points for pay an action to rotate (since they're linked actions, even though the rz-2's is red)

On the other hand, a similarly clunky ship like the Torrent is also FAR superior with two dice than the Y because it's cheap!

I could get a snapshot blue for 35 points! That's like TWO 2-die primaries!

Counterpoint: Putting a cheap-o turret on the Y-Wing's butt! Makes it a 2-arc ship. Then you can field Torrents around it. Not saying you need a YTTTTT list or something, but the Y-Wing is one big objective boi. It's meant to take torpedoes or bombs (honestly not both unless you can spare) it and just be a weapons platform.

An ARC-170 it is not, but comparing the two is honestly foolhardy. They're built for totally different tasks. But I can get equal value out of its forward and back arc alike, without even needing VTG... Because VTG is honestly kind of a waste of points.

Unless your whole squad of non torpedo/missile users locks onto VTG+Turret Matchstick. In which case, you can actually utilize two attacks. Because Matchstick is a cold *** honkey.

3 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Unless your whole squad of non torpedo/missile users locks onto VTG+Turret Matchstick. In which case, you can actually utilize two attacks. Because Matchstick is a cold *** honkey.

Just needs 2 or 3 squad mates (4 I guess if you want the extra insurance on a r1 ICT shot) to lock him to get the full benefit of his ability for his primary or turret attacks.

29 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Just needs 2 or 3 squad mates (4 I guess if you want the extra insurance on a r1 ICT shot) to lock him to get the full benefit of his ability for his primary or turret attacks.

Honestly? Feasible. Doable. Perfectly achievable. If you're not fielding ~3 Torrents at this time in The Republic's meta, you really might be doing something wrong.

Also, I just want to highlight something for you guys.

As far as The Republic goes, we're seeing ships introduced at about the same rate they were in their navy, down to the type. Except the ARC-170, as an exception. The Republic also lacks a large base.

Expect The Twilight in Wave 7-8.

I’m not gonna argue it here. But 2 dice? Big meh.

Only sinker and howl keep it from being awful.

42 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Expect The Twilight in Wave 7-8.

But (not saying it’ll be large, just that they seem to fill similar roles) I want the LAAAAAAAAT 😞

33 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

But (not saying it’ll be large, just that they seem to fill similar roles) I want the LAAAAAAAAT 😞

I would also like the LAAT/i. It would basically be an Auzituck but uh, um.

Good.

15 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

I would also like the LAAT/i. It would basically be an Auzituck but uh, um.

Good.

Why do you think I want it so badly?

Next try out will be:

Blue Squadron Protector (28)
Snap Shot (7)

Ship total: 35 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 3

Blue Squadron Protector (28)
Snap Shot (7)

Ship total: 35 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 3

Blue Squadron Protector (28)
Snap Shot (7)

Ship total: 35 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 3

Blue Squadron Protector (28)
Snap Shot (7)

Ship total: 35 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 3

"Matchstick" (43)
Crack Shot (1)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
Veteran Turret Gunner (8)
Hull Upgrade (3)

Ship total: 60 Half Points: 30 Threshold: 5


And don't tell me that SnapShot is useless. It makes miracle

57 minutes ago, Comte Oseric said:

And don't tell me that SnapShot is useless. It makes miracle

Never!

SnapShot is super because it hits before the opponent can grab action-dependent token or perform action-dependent re-positioning actions!

Also, it (effectively) doubles the damage output of your Torrents if you manage to trigger it!

And they're still (relatively) cheap! This is super important, because it's very difficult for a 2-die attack to reliably damage a higher agility target. But if you have a lot of 2-die attacks...

though personally, Sinker seems a far better complement than matchstick. Even if he doesn't modify snapshot, you still have primaries!

Blue Squadron Protector (28)
Snap Shot (7)

Ship total: 35 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 3

Blue Squadron Protector (28)
Snap Shot (7)

Ship total: 35 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 3

Blue Squadron Protector (28)
Snap Shot (7)

Ship total: 35 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 3

Blue Squadron Protector (28)
Snap Shot (7)

Ship total: 35 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 3

"Sinker" (54)
Clone Commander Cody (3)
Hull Upgrade (3)

Ship total: 60 Half Points: 30 Threshold: 5


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Republic&d=v8ZsZ200Z320X256WWY320X256WWY320X256WWY320X256WWY280XWW225WW164&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

*instead of a hull upgrade, you could trade a BSP for "Swoop" and his boost shenanigans! This may or may not be super clutch with snapshot

2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Never!

SnapShot is super because it hits before the opponent can grab action-dependent token or perform action-dependent re-positioning actions!

Also, it (effectively) doubles the damage output of your Torrents if you manage to trigger it!

And they're still (relatively) cheap! This is super important, because it's very difficult for a 2-die attack to reliably damage a higher agility target. But if you have a lot of 2-die attacks...

though personally, Sinker seems a far better complement than matchstick. Even if he doesn't modify snapshot, you still have primaries!

Blue Squadron Protector (28)
Snap Shot (7)

Ship total: 35 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 3

Blue Squadron Protector (28)
Snap Shot (7)

Ship total: 35 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 3

Blue Squadron Protector (28)
Snap Shot (7)

Ship total: 35 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 3

Blue Squadron Protector (28)
Snap Shot (7)

Ship total: 35 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 3

"Sinker" (54)
Clone Commander Cody (3)
Hull Upgrade (3)

Ship total: 60 Half Points: 30 Threshold: 5


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Republic&d=v8ZsZ200Z320X256WWY320X256WWY320X256WWY320X256WWY280XWW225WW164&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

*instead of a hull upgrade, you could trade a BSP for "Swoop" and his boost shenanigans! This may or may not be super clutch with snapshot

I like it.

Keep in mind tho that Sinker does not work with 'SnapShot'

Doh sorry - you wrote in your text that SS is not working with Sinker - sorry,...