Why doesn't this card use initiative scaling? Hasn't every newbie figured out by this point that the Lock action is significantly stronger the higher the initiative it's taken at?
Was Soontir Fel not already a staple in every Hyperspace list? Did he really need to get access to double mods on attack and defense whenever he wants them for basically no cost? So now when you have him in arc, he's got focus evade, but on the turn when he's slipped out, he gets to have focus+lock on 4 dice.
Higher initiative is better on a lot of cards/ships in the game. I'm not sure that straightforward access to an action with all the normal action limitations really warrants that type of scaling, personally.
Passive sensors effectively provides perfect knowledge target lock capability for anyone at 3 points, and while it has a lot of drawbacks too...still provides the access. TC doesn't feel broken at 3 points, outside MAYBE Soontir in the example you provided.
Idk, just my thoughts on it.
It is better at high initiative, but the opportunity cost is also very high.
That high initiative pilot only benefits from having the upgrade by spending an action whilst in engagement range, and in most cases, also loses their focus token the round they take the lock. Unless they have access to focus mods, which they pay for in points (Whisper, Duchess) or in actions (Soontir) of which they now get one fewer, they're defending this round without their defensive mods.
In short, it's fine. Extra actions should generally be cheap, because they don't just cost points, they also cost actions.
It makes Fel a little better, but Fel could already buy a reroll with Predator.
The one that would concern me is Whisper, but... Passive Sensors are Just Better if you have the slot.
The only time it would be really concerning is high init with torp slot, but literally every one of those so far already has the lock action anyway.
We don't need to initiative scale every card
it's ok for some ships to get a better deal than others
in fact it's sort of the entire point
Ships kinda already scale by Initiative themselves. So there is that.
I think it’s baked into the I-cost.
It's a 3pt upgrade and it gives you an action mathematically comparable to a focus...who cares?
Angled Deflectors: Jump through some hoops and take a pretty significant trade-off to gain an action that is situationally useful at best
Targeting Computer: Gain access to a basic action for cheap
I was hoping for more imagination out of an upgrade like Targeting Computer. In my opinion, Lock is pretty basic (and reasonably strong) action. The ships that do not have access to lock were made more interesting because they have some clearly defined weaknesses. Interceptors and Phantoms are hyper-maneuverable and they punch very hard, but lacking the lock action means that they are vulnerable to dice variance because there isn't a whole lot they can do about red blanks. Adding the lock action gives them the ability to do something about those blanks.
Even if it's 100% balanced for the points, that doesn't necessarily mean it makes the game better. And of course this is all subjective. But I think the game is more interesting when ships have clearly defined weaknesses that aren't easily remedied with a single cheap upgrade.
EDIT - All this is really to say that it would have been great if targeting computer involved some kind of decision to be made. Maybe it's even cheaper, but it adds a red lock action. In my opinion (and you're not required to agree with me) that would have made Targeting Computer a much more interesting upgrade that requires some planning, rather than slapping it on a ship to cover up a weakness for cheap points.
Edited by Maui.Angled Deflectors being hot garbage doesn't mean TC is OP.
And Angled Deflectors is absolutely hot garbage.
I think TC is fine. Not everything has to be scaled by initiative.
55 minutes ago, Maui. said:EDIT - All this is really to say that it would have been great if targeting computer involved some kind of decision to be made. Maybe it's even cheaper, but it adds a red lock action. In my opinion (and you're not required to agree with me) that would have made Targeting Computer a much more interesting upgrade that requires some planning, rather than slapping it on a ship to cover up a weakness for cheap points.
What about the decision to be made about what action to take? It's not like Targeting Computer gives the ship better action economy, it's just another option for the decision that already has to be made between different types of dice modification and repositioning, and unless you've got access to other dice mods, the choice to lock instead of focus is a meaningful decision to trade efficiency now for effectiveness later.
1 hour ago, Joker Two said:What about the decision to be made about what action to take? It's not like Targeting Computer gives the ship better action economy, it's just another option for the decision that already has to be made between different types of dice modification and repositioning, and unless you've got access to other dice mods, the choice to lock instead of focus is a meaningful decision to trade efficiency now for effectiveness later.
And it still is a decision to take it. It's a point more than Predator, which Fel had stapled to his forehead before. However, it also opens Fel up to take other talents that he would have ignored before. Outmaneuver Fel could be a thing now.
I keep looking at TC and thinking it's actually over costed. So this whole conversation is actually hilarious to me.
29 minutes ago, Punning Pundit said:I keep looking at TC and thinking it's actually over costed. So this whole conversation is actually hilarious to me.
It will never be worth it to take a mod on a generic TIE, especially one that doesn't grant any defensive bonus. Generic TIEs excel with focus because they can always use them on offense if they still have them after defending.
Lock is always the wrong action choice as you can't get it anyway and then if you blank out on your greens you can't use it anyway, and unlike Soontir you don't just get to use it because you know you're not getting shot at It's extremely situational.
Its major use is on the Lambda and Reaper for Tarkin or on cheaper TIEs to support Vessery. That's all I can think of.
10 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:It will never be worth it to take a mod on a generic TIE, especially one that doesn't grant any defensive bonus. Generic TIEs excel with focus because they can always use them on offense if they still have them after defending.
Lock is always the wrong action choice as you can't get it anyway and then if you blank out on your greens you can't use it anyway, and unlike Soontir you don't just get to use it because you know you're not getting shot at It's extremely situational.
Its major use is on the Lambda and Reaper for Tarkin or on cheaper TIEs to support Vessery. That's all I can think of.
One point less than Krennic andyou get to keep your 2nd crew slot. Not a bad tradeoff for losing Optimized prototype.
Huh.
A decently loaded cluster missile Vessery with 4 TC Academies.
Huh.
Vessery can't shoot 4 ships at once and the TIEs will be brushed off the board in minutes, but still...
23 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:Huh.
A decently loaded cluster missile Vessery with 4 TC Academies.
Huh.
Vessery can't shoot 4 ships at once and the TIEs will be brushed off the board in minutes, but still...
I'm not seeing an effective synergy here. What am I missing.
1 minute ago, Hiemfire said:I'm not seeing an effective synergy here. What am I missing.
Vessery - While you perform an attack against a locked ship, after you roll attack dice, you may acquire a lock on the defender.
He wants squad mates that are Locked on, Targetting Computer gives the Academys the Lock action.
6 minutes ago, DarkHorse said:Vessery - While you perform an attack against a locked ship, after you roll attack dice, you may acquire a lock on the defender.
He wants squad mates that are Locked on, Targetting Computer gives the Academys the Lock action.
That part I'm aware of. I should have been clearer but my issue is with the two turns of range 1-2 target swapping that using cluster missiles implies when paired with his lock acquisition ability. He's getting the locks, but he's living in a kill box for those two turns...
Edited by HiemfireHe didn't say idea was good...
4 minutes ago, DarkHorse said:He didn't say idea was good...
This.
Parking Vessery in a kill box is kind of an optional thing tbf.
But yeah.
2 hours ago, Joker Two said:What about the decision to be made about what action to take?
That's neither new nor interesting. Deciding between focus/lock/reposition is standard fare for X-wing. Now, it's even more standard than before.
All it does is add to a ship. Which is fine--there's plenty of upgrades that do that. But I've always felt like a ship lacking the lock action is a clearly defined weakness, much like a ship that lacks a reposition action. Targeting Computer covers that weakness without any kind of trade-off other than a tiny points investment.
I'm not saying it's bad or that it will ruin the game or anything. I'm just saying I was hoping for something a bit more interesting and imaginative, and I'm a little disappointed that it's just a plug-and-play action upgrade for cheap points.
4 hours ago, DarkHorse said:He didn't say idea was good...
Speaking of which, why does Bossk have scales but only one point value??
The whole “Target Lock is more valuable on higher initiatives” only goes so far as Locking the enemy in the initial engagement. Initiative doesn’t mean a thing when you’re Locking your friends, or obstacles, as rare as that may be. But after the initial “break the Range-3 barrier”, you’re almost guaranteed to have an enemy close enough to Lock on to, even if they may not be in your firing arc because of tricksy repositioning actions. And in my experience unless you’re relying on getting a Lock early for an alpha strike, the best time(s) for locking are when the scrum happens and you know you likely won’t get shot at in the next engagement because you think you may have probably sort of almost kind of (?) guessed correctly on where that little ******ed ****** of a ship is going.
Edited by It’s One Of Ours1 hour ago, It’s One Of Ours said:The whole “Target Lock is more valuable on higher initiatives” only goes so far as Locking the enemy in the initial engagement.
Past the first engage, at higher initiative, you also have the additional information of: