Manipulate's basic power blurb states, "The Force user shapes machine components on a molecular level, allowing him to mend damaged mechanical systems." Can you use it change similar components in a way not listed in the tree? One instance I was thinking is a mechanical locking mechanism, for example. Could you change the shape of the locks internals to make it open? Or other deeper manipulations such as changing the chemical makeup of an alloy changing it into something other than what it was originally? Make doors open from the middle?

I would say no. The intent of the power is clearly that it just heals/fixes machines. Move lets you pick locks with its final Control upgrade.

Also, to change the chemical make-up, you need to go sub-atomic. That's a whole other power-level.

@micheldebruyn is correct here. In order to do what you want you need the Move power's Fine Manipulation upgrade.

On 9/11/2019 at 9:11 PM, Mojobacca said:

Manipulate's basic power blurb states, "The Force user shapes machine components on a molecular level, allowing him to mend damaged mechanical systems." Can you use it change similar components in a way not listed in the tree? One instance I was thinking is a mechanical locking mechanism, for example. Could you change the shape of the locks internals to make it open? Or other deeper manipulations such as changing the chemical makeup of an alloy changing it into something other than what it was originally? Make doors open from the middle?

I would say you should ask yourself "What would a Metalbender do?" and go with that. If you're looking for "outside the box" kind of ways to utilize this power. There is nothing saying that it's only good for repairing metal equipment. You can shape them however you want. Impromptu manacles, malleable melee weapons that can alter as you need for a fight. Altering weapons into a hook form to allow you to have impromptu climbing hooks (like the swords the Moon Elf girl has in The Dragon Prince). Impromptu cover/armor to protect you and your allies. Basically the only limitation is your imagination, what your GM will allow, and if you've bought the appropriate upgrades to justify the manipulation.

How do you leap from " shapes machine components on a molecular level, allowing him to mend damaged mechanical systems" and "the user may spend Force points to recover system strain" to metal-bending?

Even the Mastery doesn't let you do anything even close to bending a metal bar into a climbing hook.

14 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

How do you leap from " shapes machine components on a molecular level, allowing him to mend damaged mechanical systems" and "the user may spend Force points to recover system strain" to metal-bending?

Even the Mastery doesn't let you do anything even close to bending a metal bar into a climbing hook.

I'm not sure an imaginative player couldn't find a way to do that. Armourer and Artisan specialisations with Manipulate Force Power open a lot of possibilities for such kind of players.

30 minutes ago, WolfRider said:

I'm not sure an imaginative player couldn't find a way to do that. Armourer and Artisan specialisations with Manipulate Force Power open a lot of possibilities for such kind of players.

The way I read it, the power represents Anakin's supernal talent with technology.

Nothing in any of it suggests you can alter stuff in ways visible to the naked eye.

On 9/14/2019 at 7:35 AM, micheldebruyn said:

The way I read it, the power represents Anakin's supernal talent with technology.

Nothing in any of it suggests you can alter stuff in ways visible to the naked eye.

If I'm repairing damage to a machine, how is that not "visible to the naked eye"? It's a giant blaster hole in the side of my speeder, that is the damage I'm "mending". By definition, the repairing of that would be fixing the hole in my speeder. Thus, it's now visibly no longer damaged. That's about as naked eye as it gets. And I don't know how you can do that without reshaping the rest of the metal, ergo, Manipulating it. It doesn't say "you can magically repair stuff, but you have to have a supply of metal around to use to fix it." It's just "you have the Force? You can fix your car." Which would have to mean you are directly Manipulating the already existing material in some magical way, to facilitate the mending. And I don't know how else that would happen, other than reshaping what's there. Unless they're just magically making new metal materialize out of thin air to fill in the damage.

Besides, the power is called Manipulate , and it's focus is on metal/non-living stuff. So, yeah you can manipulate the material the power has purview over.

Now if the GM wants to say "no, you can't be a Metalbender with this power", that's fine. The GM has final say at the table, but based on the description of the power, I don't think it's unreasonable to say, for someone who has heavily invested in Manipulate, and has a strong Force Rating, that they could basically replicate Metalbending from Avatar if they wanted to. Given the other insane stuff you can do with the Force, it hardly seems OP to me. It relies on their being actual metal around to manipulate, so jungle scenes will be seriously limited in it's functionality.

And if I can justify picking up a starship and throwing it at someone with the Powers of Mah Mindz!! I don't think it's out of theme to say "Yeah, you can Force shift that door open since it's metal, or rip down that fender on the speeder to make it crash." Or whatever other thing the clever player can think of to do with the power.

Allowing the power to somewhat replicate metalbending, to me, allows for more creative, and varied stories to be told at the gaming table. Which is my usual metric for if something should/shouldn't be allowed. Will it make the game more fun for me and my players? If yes, then I'll probably allow it. It's no more insane than the other Force powers and what they can do in the hands of someone with a crafty mind.

Plus, the artwork in the book, illustrating the use of the power, shows someone just holding their hand over a damaged part of a speederbike, which again implies they're just visibly fixing the damage by reshaping the metal back to how it should be, ergo, metalbending.

Fair question at this point: have you read the power? I mean all of it, what it mechanically does and doesn't do, not just the fluff of the basic power?

It does electronics, not metalwork.

Yeah, in the OP he quotes it as saying "shape machine components on a molecular level*, allowing him to mend damaged mechanical systems " my interpretation from the fluff text is that he can shift things into place, smooth out edges, graft wires, etc. not bend durasteel armor plating to his will. Think of it like using the force to re-attach wires where they broke from the soldering. Manipulating the molecules to graft the two together.

*this could just mean that he manipulates the components on a molecular level, not that he changes their molecules. I'm not sure how to put this exactly, but I think it is trying to describe how he accomplishes these feats not what the feat accomplishes. If that makes any sense.