Hi all

I play an Ataru Striker/Jedi Padawan/Jedi Knight in a game and well we have ran into, albeit for a moment, Emperor Palpatine.

I am FR 4, I have a GM Grant of 1 FR so I could have a 4. I also have Ebb/Flow (mostly filled in) and Enhance (mostly filled in) and Sense the total left side.

Now his normal stats are menacing normally, but our wonderful GM has made some changes *cough* *cough*

Palpatine has parry 15 now (Impossible for me to hurt him) and a Melee defense of 6

Now either of those wouldn't be too bad, but together it is insane.

I did manage to get a hit on him, which he effortlessly parried away.

Also he has FR 10, which is nuts. but AFAIK he lets Palpatine add his FR to his lightsaber skill

Any suggestions on what to do to even stand a chance, as a group, as we have 3 other players.

My character is all about kicking butt, so HELP PLEASE!!!!

Your gm is being a jerk full stop.

Given the mention of getting a free Force Rating bump I get the feeling that this is a GM who goes for numbers inflation 'just because'?

Either way, the best way to deal with it is to collectively tell them 'no'.

Two things:

1) Slap your GM and tell him to knock that **** off. That's some weapons grade bad GMing right there.

2) It is the emperor of the freaking universe. You're fighting someone who outbadasses Bill Brasky/Chuck Norris/Godzilla/Bruce Lee/Chow Yun Fat/James Bond/The Man With No Name/Blofield with one hand tied behind his back. He's a plot device, not a character. The appropriate response is "I spend every maneuver my character has or ever will have to run away".

That said, your GM is being a serious Richard.

Parry 15? As in reduces damage by 15 or has 15 parry talents. NPCs should not have Melee defense 6.

My advice, hit him with grenades because blast quality should trigger even if you miss. If he has soak to stop it then to echo previous statements your GM has built an enemy that cannot be beaten.

Plus Palpatine has stats as RAW!

I have a question: is this intended as a combat encounter, or is this just you guys meeting him for whatever reason?

5 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

I have a question: is this intended as a combat encounter, or is this just you guys meeting him for whatever reason?

It is a weird situation.

A 'gate' was found that mucks with things and our goal was to stop the Empire from using it, instead they got there first.

Palpatine personally arrived there and went through the gate, which could take people through time, and did.

So the party got there as he was about to go through and he force lightninged my character, which was cool, I got lucky and he did all of 1 wound to me, after soak and reflect, though he did crit me, as he rolled only 1advantage, but had a Triumph in there, or whatever it took to activate a crit.

So I got one attack in on him before he walked through. The GM chose to not use Adversary, for whatever reason, and instead said he had 6 melee defense, which is cool I suppose.

I rolled real well and hit him, well barely, though I did get 2 Triumphs, which should of screwed him up, but he implemented a house rule a despair can cancel out a triumph, and I did roll one of those too. T&hough that house rule was started WITH THAT ROLL.

So then he said he parried and had Parry 15, which I believe is a total of 13 ranks plus the normal reduction of 2.

Was anti-climatic, as I had already faced off against Maul, and cleaved him in half. I got real lucky there and Maul didn't. The fight lasted all of 2 rounds against him.

All of the PCs against the Emperor thought we were either dead or that the GM made it beyond impossible.

7 hours ago, bblaney001 said:

I rolled real well and hit him, well barely, though I did get 2 Triumphs, which should of screwed him up, but he implemented a house rule a despair can cancel out a triumph, and I did roll one of those too. T&hough that house rule was started WITH THAT ROLL.

That is a huge warning sign, you guys need to talk to your GM. It sounds like he is trying to "win" and that is not acceptable for a GM unless that is something the players want.
Not in a mean way, but tell him what you don't like and ask him if he can either justify why, or please make a change. As far as the Emperor goes, if he expects you to fight the Emperor, he should allow the chance (I stress chance ) that you could win, but if he doesn't want you to fight the Emperor, just see him from a distance more or less, than you should probably accept that he doesn't want the Emperor getting killed by a couple lucky rolls. If it was anyone other than the Emperor and maybe Vader, I would say the GM should definitely reconsider.

Good rule of thumb for house rules, DO NOT SPRING THEM ON YOUR PLAYERS DURING PLAY WHEN IT HAMSTRINGS THEM! Also, before a house rule is implemented, it should be agreed upon by a the very least 2/3 of the people present with no major objections from the remainder.

Despair absolutely should NOT cancel out Triumph, the system is built the way it is for a purpose.

Concur with the above. Poppa Palpatine isn't an NPC, he's a plot device with a private bathroom in his office.

I get what the GM probably thinks he's doing... This is the emperor, he shouldn't go down like a punk... ok... fine.

But here the thing... he kinda should. In the films he was powerful... but not THAT powerful. When you cast Luke as a PC and use the Films as his Campaign... there's just not enough XP for him to face a threat of that magnitude. And that's what irks me, it's the GM not just saying that you can't defeat Palps, but that you're also never, ever ,ever going to be as powerful as the very characters in the films you're trying to emulate... and that, is a double-Richard move, as he's dissing the films, the game, and you.

In all likelihood, this is just a learning experience for him. One of those situations that every GM worth his salt has been in at one time or another. So talk to him about it, and he'll figure out: If you don't want the players to kill him... don't put him in the same room as the players!

And that's 100% in line with the films. Go watch them again. The "Players" have extremely limited encounters with the likes of Vader and the Emperor outside of extremely carefully staged encounters. There's really only 1 instance where a Player has any real hope of defeating a big bad, and that's the end.

Agree with those who state your GM needs to be talked to, but I take the route that said GM needs to up his plot game to give the Emperor the right feel. He’s not “stats.”

Entire campaigns are built around just getting to Palpatine even once. Even when that happens the challenge lies not only in the cannon fodder he has to throw at the PCs (cannon fodder at the nemesis level with the Imperial Guard), but also in the idea that he (most likely) already knows the PCs are coming for him.

A good GM would have the players set up an appropriate “check mate” to box in Palpatine in a situation that works for them. That alone should be the real leg work worthy of multiple sessions and every move/roll they make should be a nail biter. The actual fight should just be what the stats show depending on the situation the PCs have him in, and by that I mean who he has to protect him.

TL,DR: your GM is a hack and you have my sympathy. They need to learn to be a fan of the player characters and challenge them “correctly” with story

7 hours ago, bblaney001 said:

but he implemented a house rule a despair can cancel out a triumph. T&hough that house rule was started WITH THAT ROLL.

That's a bull**** rule. You guys NEED to have a long, hard talk with your GM about expectations and not pulling stuff like this in the middle of the game. Stat.

5 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Despair absolutely should NOT cancel out Triumph, the system is built the way it is for a purpose.

We should have a point of clarification, since it sounds like this is a new GM. A despair and a triumph cancel each other out as far as a success and a fail go. The player still gets a really cool effect and a bad thing still happens to them, but as far as determining if the check succeeds, they do cancel each other.

On ‎9‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 6:59 PM, bblaney001 said:

I play an Ataru Striker/Jedi Padawan/Jedi Knight in a game and well we have ran into, albeit for a moment, Emperor Palpatine

My character is all about kicking butt, so HELP PLEASE!!!!

The GM is being portrayed as a jerk, and maybe he is, but also he may just be making mistakes. Not sure if he wants you guys to fight Palpatine but not win, and then retreat, or if he has some sort of a Deus Ex Machina planned to get the players out of a death trap/put them in prison and the game goes on from post-capture.

Maybe kicking butt isn't always the answer

1 hour ago, Archlyte said:

The GM is being portrayed as a jerk, and maybe he is, but also he may just be making mistakes. Not sure if he wants you guys to fight Palpatine but not win, and then retreat, or if he has some sort of a Deus Ex Machina planned to get the players out of a death trap/put them in prison and the game goes on from post-capture.

Maybe kicking butt isn't always the answer

Well it is the Emperor, no amount of anything except killing him is the answer

On 9/12/2019 at 3:59 AM, bblaney001 said:

Palpatine has parry 15 now (Impossible for me to hurt him) and a Melee defense of 6

Any suggestions on what to do to even stand a chance, as a group, as we have 3 other players.

My character is all about kicking butt, so HELP PLEASE!!!!

If your group has a chance to gear up...

use a Flickerphase Blade attachment --> no parry.

use concussion rifles with concussive & blast.

use vehicle scale weapons. It would only be fitting if he gets a proton torpedo shot down his "trench".

On 9/11/2019 at 9:59 PM, bblaney001 said:

1. Now his normal stats are menacing normally, but our wonderful GM has made some changes *cough* *cough*

2. Palpatine has parry 15 now (Impossible for me to hurt him) and a Melee defense of 6

Now either of those wouldn't be too bad, but together it is insane.

I did manage to get a hit on him, which he effortlessly parried away.

3. Also he has FR 10, which is nuts. but AFAIK he lets Palpatine add his FR to his lightsaber skill

4. Any suggestions on what to do to even stand a chance, as a group, as we have 3 other players.

My character is all about kicking butt, so HELP PLEASE!!!!

1. Changes can be ok to make the statblocks of canon NPCs more challenging (A group with over 300xp earned might not find the official stats so tough).

2. So that ignores 17 damage from melee attacks for 3 strain each, that's a bit much. At most I give NPCs like parry 8 so they can ignore 10 damage. Melee Defense of 6 is funny because Defense caps out at 4 per the RAW.

3. Okay now that's just overkill. I'm fairly certain Palpatine's stats have like FR 6 or 7 which is more than enough, giving him more FP is just so he can oneshot PCs with Lightning.

4. Ask your GM to tone him down a bit, he's obviously let you see the stats and feels proud about it. Palpatine can be strong without being stupidly OP.

Suggestion for stats: Parry 8/Reflect 8 at the most. Keep FR the same as printed FR. Melee Defense of 6 like I said does nothing past 4, so that's overkill, tone it down to 3 for melee and maybe 2 for range. If your GM is just worried about Palpatine dying then there's a couple easy solutions:

1. Don't use Palpatine at all.

2. GM can spent a destiny point to explain Palpatine's escape at some point. This is two-fold. He keeps his NPC alive and you and your allies feel like bosses because you forced Sheev Palpatine to flee.

3. Make the goal not about killing Palpatine but about something else and Palpatine is the obstacle in the way. Again this is on your GM like most of these ideas.

On 9/28/2019 at 6:48 PM, bblaney001 said:

Well it is the Emperor, no amount of anything except killing him is the answer

From the way the problem is set up I just don't think Killing him is in the cards.

A GM in a Tabletop Role-Playing game is not like a referee in a baseball game. The contest between the players and an NPC like this can't be fair. If he has Imperial Guards show up to help him is that "cheating"? What if a legion of Stormtroopers show up to help the Emperor?

It's not a win/lose type of game like monopoly so the GM does not need to only present you with situations that you can win by force. If the character can kick butt then the character presumably has strong legs and can run as well. The characters are Jedi too so they get out of traps like James Bond, so escaping through some clever trick would be good too.

If your description of your character suggests that you personally are not gonna be able to stand it if you're defeated, well that's a whole other bag of fruit. Always needing to win is a terrible affliction as it kills drama.

On 9/30/2019 at 7:50 AM, GroggyGolem said:

1. Changes can be ok to make the statblocks of canon NPCs more challenging (A group with over 300xp earned might not find the official stats so tough).

2. So that ignores 17 damage from melee attacks for 3 strain each, that's a bit much. At most I give NPCs like parry 8 so they can ignore 10 damage. Melee Defense of 6 is funny because Defense caps out at 4 per the RAW.

3. Okay now that's just overkill. I'm fairly certain Palpatine's stats have like FR 6 or 7 which is more than enough, giving him more FP is just so he can oneshot PCs with Lightning.

4. Ask your GM to tone him down a bit, he's obviously let you see the stats and feels proud about it. Palpatine can be strong without being stupidly OP.

Suggestion for stats: Parry 8/Reflect 8 at the most. Keep FR the same as printed FR. Melee Defense of 6 like I said does nothing past 4, so that's overkill, tone it down to 3 for melee and maybe 2 for range. If your GM is just worried about Palpatine dying then there's a couple easy solutions:

1. Don't use Palpatine at all.

2. GM can spent a destiny point to explain Palpatine's escape at some point. This is two-fold. He keeps his NPC alive and you and your allies feel like bosses because you forced Sheev Palpatine to flee.

3. Make the goal not about killing Palpatine but about something else and Palpatine is the obstacle in the way. Again this is on your GM like most of these ideas.

Right now we are searching the galaxy for ways to defeat Palp.

Suppress is a power we have at least one PC working on.

Another is planning on using Battle Meditation to buff us.

Using multiple grenades to 'frag' his butt

The less experienced PCs, they will handle the Imperial Royal Guardsmen, hopefully

Working on getting Juyo Berserker deep enough to get Vaapad Control, as that'll negate adversary real easy, for Strain.

Saber Swarm can whittle down his Strain pretty fast, as I tend to get a ton of advantage every time I roll. So I really need just one success to make his life less than enjoyable.

I did survive a full strength Force Lightning blast, as Palp rolled pathetically bad, though I do have a nasty looking scar going up my right arm from it.

One important question: Does your GM want you to fight/defeat Palpatine? It could be that he over-statted Palpatine to such a degree because he doesn't want you to fight Palpatine.

Somewhat similar to what happens if you try to talk to Canderous Ordo in the cantina on Taris in whichever KOTOR/SWTOR game it was. He one shots you because the "GM" doesn't want you to do anything with him yet.

2 hours ago, bblaney001 said:

Right now we are searching the galaxy for ways to defeat Palp.

Suppress is a power we have at least one PC working on.

Another is planning on using Battle Meditation to buff us.

Using multiple grenades to 'frag' his butt

The less experienced PCs, they will handle the Imperial Royal Guardsmen, hopefully

Working on getting Juyo Berserker deep enough to get Vaapad Control, as that'll negate adversary real easy, for Strain.

Saber Swarm can whittle down his Strain pretty fast, as I tend to get a ton of advantage every time I roll. So I really need just one success to make his life less than enjoyable.

I did survive a full strength Force Lightning blast, as Palp rolled pathetically bad, though I do have a nasty looking scar going up my right arm from it.

OK so another option on the player side is use everything that can deal strain damage. He can't parry/reflect long if while he's parry/reflecting, any uncancelled damage is also being applied to his strain threshold. That's what I've found, along with grenades (stun grenades weee) to be very effective against Force Users with parry/reflect. Once he's incapacitated, coup de grace that sucker.

I'm not sure that'd work when dealing with a GM who already has made up one houserule on the fly to keep Palpatine from being hit.

Gunslingers can shoot a mini game n and have a second shot hit the nemesis bypassing adversary.

Auto-fire and Linked weaponry are also useful, because if you get a bunch of hits, it can drain his strain very quickly.

2 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

I'm not sure that'd work when dealing with a GM who already has made up one houserule on the fly to keep Palpatine from being hit.

While I agree with that, my first 3 suggestions were entirely focused on options the GM can take instead of making the NPC overpowered. Since the OP responded with what they have been doing as players, I decided to focus on that more as what the GM does is out of the OP's hands.