14 minutes ago, executor said:

How exactly is losing an action a form of help?

Because lists that bring clouds will have abilities that ignore that affect

passive mods- Jedi

a coordinating ship - anyone

ignore the loss of action - AB Vader

there are a ton of ways to make the loss of action negligible, where the auto evade, plus the list archetypes abilities I stated makes the clouds almost auto includes to negate green die.

If you just take clouds, cos clouds, well that’s just dumb.

There are and always will be squads who can 'use' terrain to their advantage (mining guild with rocks, strikers with debris, vultures with rocks or debris), but...yeah. Gas clouds feel a bit too easy to do that with, especially given the huge passive defence increase they give you anyway .

7 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

If you just take clouds, cos clouds, well that’s just dumb.

To be fair, as people have noted, they're often a preferred choice for big ships and swarms, not because they have any great interaction with them but just because there's basically no downside to hitting them beyond one missed action.

Strain. Who didn't think this when they were spoiled?

Either different stages of development skipped reference to each other somehow, or FFG chose it to be this way after playtesting the alternatives. For whatever reason.

For Gas Clouds, I imagine the latter.

Fully execute, the former.

I imagine 'fully execute' was intentional, to soften the impact of collisions for certain frames in the hands of newer players. But the interaction with Clouds was either not foreseen, or they were intended to be coupled with a negative effect that was later removed.

Personally, just put Strain on them and see how it impacts. I don't think 'fully execute' is that big of a deal then.

I’m not sure if this has been brought up. But I think if you are on an obstacle, you should not be allowed to take an action. Full stop.

Going through an obstacle should not be allowed to take an action: however, can be coordinated.

On 9/13/2019 at 6:31 AM, Cuz05 said:

Strain. Who didn't think this when they were spoiled?

Is one fewer agility for one shot, unless a blue manuever is executed first, going to dissuade Tavson, an Academy Pilot, or a Jedi planning to 5 straight, regen, and boost away?

I don't think it would, at all.

10 hours ago, svelok said:

Is one fewer agility for one shot, unless a blue manuever is executed first, going to dissuade Tavson, an Academy Pilot, or a Jedi planning to 5 straight, regen, and boost away?

I don't think it would, at all.

I don't think it would either, but then they often don't even care about rocks

My point is more that it was assumed by the group mind that that's what it would be. For reasons.

Full disclosure. There were many pushing for a 'beneficial' obstacle back in first Ed. I was one of them, and engaged in many threads on the subject.

It was quite a hot button topic back then too. I still stand by the value of it in the game for more than a few reasons, letting new players in to a less brutal initial experience chief among them. It's a training wheel, those are good. It's also very close to a version this community had actually suggested in the similarity of granting an Evade effect.

That said...

It is obvious there has been some backlash to the one they released. I for one still like it, and even when it's frustrated my efforts to win a game, I didn't feel like it was solely the reason. Most of the time I still won. For my experience it added a highly interactive game board piece.

Here's my biggest thing about it though. Obstacles have their own meta. This was True even in first Ed. When we got debris we spammed those. When we got different asteroids, we started selecting ones that best suited the list. And as long as we had a choice between rocks and debris, we picked the ones that were least penalizing to our own goals, OR most penalizing to the opponent. Some choose to deviate from those common choices too for their own reasons.

Like for me when hypermobility was the rage, I ALWAYS took debris. I'd rather we both get a stress occasionally than a damage because that will hurt the hypermobility ship more than my jouster. And then in the rain of tears that was the Jumpma-pocolypse, I switched back to asteroids because I'd rather you miss your opportunity to shoot if they mess up. But my lists preferences didn't change much, I was making these changes often in my favorite list without changes to the list itself.

Because I knew I could fly well. I banked on the fact that I could fly better than you. That was the gamble I went to the table with. I wasn't stuck in here with your obstacles. You were stuck in here with mine! 😂

The monotony of flying through Lanes was gone. And games became more interesting. I didn't always have to peel off and do circles because maybe it was a debris and I can actually risk punching through it. Clouds are doing the same thing for me. There's way more approaches to a game now and range control is important.

And the obstacle deployment meta is still settling after their initial release. Already I've seen people leaving behind clouds and bringing rocks and debris again, as if they're challenging the opponent. They're doing exactly what we used to do. Their responding to the presence of clouds with thinking that I'm sure goes "well, they probably want clouds, I'm a good pilot and bet I can deal with it, I'd rather have some rocks to mess THEM up so I'll bring rocks, maybe one debris."

Then we get to the table, and the double blind strikes again. Oh, you brought rocks too? Hmm, it looks like we'll be cramped in here. Time to fly well! Hold on too your Butts!

There's also the ships that only interact with certain obstacles, like Mining Guild Ties and Landing Struts. As time goes on and we get more effects like those I bet it's only going to get weirder as to what combination of obstacles you encounter in any given game.

All this beside the real issue: We haven't seen what the environment cards do yet.

But I suppose if it was too appease the masses, A strain token would be enough for me. I'm with whoever earlier said that was what they thought it was back in the announcements phase. Heck I kept trying to assign strain to my ships when the product was released! Folks had to keep swatting my hand! 🤣

4 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

Full disclosure. There were many pushing for a 'beneficial' obstacle back in first Ed. I was one of them, and engaged in many threads on the subject.

It was quite a hot button topic back then too. I still stand by the value of it in the game for more than a few reasons, letting new players in to a less brutal initial experience chief among them. It's a training wheel, those are good. It's also very close to a version this community had actually suggested in the similarity of granting an Evade effect.

That said...

It is obvious there has been some backlash to the one they released. I for one still like it, and even when it's frustrated my efforts to win a game, I didn't feel like it was solely the reason. Most of the time I still won. For my experience it added a highly interactive game board piece.

Here's my biggest thing about it though. Obstacles have their own meta. This was True even in first Ed. When we got debris we spammed those. When we got different asteroids, we started selecting ones that best suited the list. And as long as we had a choice between rocks and debris, we picked the ones that were least penalizing to our own goals, OR most penalizing to the opponent. Some choose to deviate from those common choices too for their own reasons.

Like for me when hypermobility was the rage, I ALWAYS took debris. I'd rather we both get a stress occasionally than a damage because that will hurt the hypermobility ship more than my jouster. And then in the rain of tears that was the Jumpma-pocolypse, I switched back to asteroids because I'd rather you miss your opportunity to shoot if they mess up. But my lists preferences didn't change much, I was making these changes often in my favorite list without changes to the list itself.

Because I knew I could fly well. I banked on the fact that I could fly better than you. That was the gamble I went to the table with. I wasn't stuck in here with your obstacles. You were stuck in here with mine! 😂

The monotony of flying through Lanes was gone. And games became more interesting. I didn't always have to peel off and do circles because maybe it was a debris and I can actually risk punching through it. Clouds are doing the same thing for me. There's way more approaches to a game now and range control is important.

And the obstacle deployment meta is still settling after their initial release. Already I've seen people leaving behind clouds and bringing rocks and debris again, as if they're challenging the opponent. They're doing exactly what we used to do. Their responding to the presence of clouds with thinking that I'm sure goes "well, they probably want clouds, I'm a good pilot and bet I can deal with it, I'd rather have some rocks to mess THEM up so I'll bring rocks, maybe one debris."

Then we get to the table, and the double blind strikes again. Oh, you brought rocks too? Hmm, it looks like we'll be cramped in here. Time to fly well! Hold on too your Butts!

There's also the ships that only interact with certain obstacles, like Mining Guild Ties and Landing Struts. As time goes on and we get more effects like those I bet it's only going to get weirder as to what combination of obstacles you encounter in any given game.

All this beside the real issue: We haven't seen what the environment cards do yet.

But I suppose if it was too appease the masses, A strain token would be enough for me. I'm with whoever earlier said that was what they thought it was back in the announcements phase. Heck I kept trying to assign strain to my ships when the product was released! Folks had to keep swatting my hand! 🤣

For training wheels it’s always been more simple to just reduce the number and size also people need to learn how to avoid them it makes for better play

I have no idea why we would want to open up space in a competitive game any more. There’s already a bit of a I can go anywhere I want for many ships. The game really should not be so much about range control only. That’s already very doable and obstacles make that even harder

Good topic, Blail. Vote organization is very good.

See here's what's up. I always pack Gas Clouds... becuase I'd be stupid NOT to. They're basically fully beneficial compared to other obstacle. ****, are they even an obstacle?

They also make Mining Guild TIEs TOTALLY irrelevant, poor things.