Quicksilver said:

Let's not assume we've already acquired the mercenaries. Say we haven't. How do you determine the acquisition modifier for the dudes themselves?

[Rolls 1 threw 3] Abundance = Scarce (+0), Scale = 10,000 (-30), Quality = Common (+0). So a total of -30 for Lasguns, Guard Flak and Frag Grenade.

Or, assuming you don't want to end up with partially equipped troups, one Roll could be made at -40 (Scarce (+0), Scale = 10,000 (-30), Quality = Common (+0), Add ons at -5 each (-10)

How do you go about combining several rolls into one? I haven't seen any official word on how to do that.

To help you some with your idea for the system heres my 2 cents worth... the DH corebook has the monthly payrates of each of the classes ( esp imperial guardsmen ) to simplify it id say it takes the base starting rank in Thrones X avg # of months training. For example...

Imperial Guardsman earns base rate of 70 thrones +1d10 per rank/level increase per month ( avg # of months in training would be...as little as 1 month and as much as 12 ( training varies greatly from one guard unit to the next ) so we say for a rookie level its 3mo so that would be 70x3=210TG to begin with...a regular experienced guard would be say...6mo ( 70x6=420TG) rank/level 2 and a veteran would be say 9mo ( 70x9=630TG ) rank.level 3..and finally the elite at 12mo so ( 70x12=840TG ) for rank/level 4

For Rogue Trader terms though i would say it would cost the equivalent of 1 Ship Point per month for upkeep per month ( food clothing etc...) for a personal unit big enough for the barracks AND the following to buy them and train them

5 SP = Green XP / Level 1

7SP = Regular XP / Level 2 +1SP upkeep/mo ( total 2SP )

9SP = Veteran XP / Level 3

12SP = Elite XP / Level 4 +1SP upkeep/mo ( total3SP )

Obviously this would eat into profits greatly both initially and regular upkeep BUT...if you have a trained crack crew of elite stormtroopers on your ship then not only would any boarding actions against your ship be highly unsucessful but any boarding actions your captain made against another ship would have that much more of a chance of succeeding. However an offset would be that the morale can be more significantly impacted...so it would be wise to keep the soldiers better entertained as well...say normal weekend furlows at most ports and some kind of recreation onboard for time during trips in between etc.....

Hope some of this helped out some...

I've already worked out prices for training different kinds of troops. I didn't go by the incomes given in the DH book since those are what acolytes earn during downtime, which implies that it's the disposable income they have left after deducting lifestyle costs, not total wage paid. I've gone with a basic pay of 5 Thrones a day for common grunts, and upwards from there based on rank. From which I've calculated lump sums for total training cost and upkeep per day.

What do you mean by measuring upkeep in terms of ship points? Do you mean reduction in profit factor by that amount? I'm doing away with profit factor altogether in favour of counting Thrones.

Here's a sample of the system, release the dogs!

LIQUID ASSETS AND DEBT


Liquid assets are the “cash balance” of the Rogue Trader dynasty, a number representing the total value of portable and easily convertible assets such as shares in Calixis Sector corporations, letters of credit, and cold hard Throne Gelt. Whenever the Rogue Trader makes a purchase, the liquid asset balance is decreased by an amount equal to the value of the purchase. Whenever money is earned (via goods sale, rewards, etc), it is added directly to the liquid asset balance.

Liquid assets are never broken down into specific subtypes. It is simply assumed that, being highly, well, liquid, the Seneschal keeps converting them into whatever form he deems most profitable. It is always assumed that enough of the liquid assets are kept “on hand” as currency for the Rogue Trader to make any purchases he might want to do, as long as the purchase doesn’t take the liquid asset balance into the negative (see below).
At the start of every year of realspace-time, the liquid assets earn the Rogue Trader capital income in the form of interest, dividends, etc. The Seneschal, or whoever is in charge of property management, makes a roll against the Commerce skill at this time. The base interest rate is 2%. Each degree of success/failure on the roll increases/decreases the interest rate by 0.2 percent points. Simple success or failure leave the rate unchanged. Immediately increase the liquid asset balance of the Rogue Trader dynasty by the determined percentage.

Purchases that make the liquid asset balance go into the negative cannot be made unless the Rogue Trader can negotiate a loan (GM’s call). Loans are represented by allowing the liquid asset balance to go into the negative. A negative balance works exactly like a positive, with interest being negative (increasing the debt), with the exception that the annual interest is determined by a Barter (rather than Commerce) test, and degrees of success reduce the interest rate while degrees of failure increase it.

The total amount of debt allowed for a Rogue Trader dynasty is the GM’s call, though no Rogue Trader should be allowed more debt than the total value of all his assets. Also, should insolvency loom, it is entirely appropriate for the GM to rule that further debt is incurred at a higher interest rate.

Perhaps what your looking for is just a revised version of the current aquisition system as opposed to a more in depth economic system that relies on fully counting your assets and costs, why not just adapt the profit method to include the parts you want.

Such as the reward for "saving" money being represented as a bonus on your next test? Im sure the other point such as the liquid assets and debt could fall into the profit system fairly easily and the GM no longer has to write up a price guide for different army or unit types plus all the equipment,etc.The idea of influence and favours is also retained however i agree that players actions should have more of an influence on the aquisition test if the situation calls for it. Maybe your Profit factor should only include your monetary assets while the influence you have over the salesmen should be a variable modifier like Quality and rarity.

That being said, I'm not sure how much you could modify the current profit factor system to make a more accurate model, without it becoming overly complicated and defeating the purpose altogether.

I thought that barter was more common in the Imperium? I know the peons can receive some sort of monetary reward, but I was under the impression that the vast herds of serfs live hand to mouth and have no money? Am I wrong?

If you look at the economic model of the Imperium scientifically, if that can be done, it is only a small portion of the population which ever sees money, and that is the population which is not tied to a Hive or World and is capable of making money independanty. Presence of a central bank, which I believe there is, indicates a credit system, where credit-worthy subjects could borrow money to fund ventures. That being said, it would be interesting to know how many thrones a Rogue Trader could borrow, if say he was offered a planet for billions of thrones.

space blanket said:

This.

The acquisition system might look simple at first glance, but when you start to modify it to make it able to properly represent things it isn't quite capable of in its pure form (such as one-off rewards and payments), it quickly becomes so complicated that its purpose is defeated. I tried, and that was when I still was convinced there was no other way than acquisition.

Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:

That would, like most things, depend on the planet. There is no Imperial constitution stating that every planet needs to be grimdark, oppressive and miserable.

Living hand to mouth does not mean you have no money. It means you have no disposable income after having bought basic necessities and paid rent. But money still passes through your hands. Unless the planet is one big centrally planned economy, whoever employs you has no way of directly providing you with everything. Instead, he pays you money, which you pay someone else to get the stuff you want. A monetary economy is absolutely necessary in any system with independent, specialized economic actors.

Konrad von Richtmark said:

You can't, unless it's an add-on for a weapon armour (like the example is given in the book, you can add a -5 modifier for getting a red-dot laser sight on your lasgun (using the highest of the rarity of the two as the base rarity modifier) and then roll to see if you get a lasgun with red-dot). You can't combine rolls for grenades, armour and guns all into one roll, you have to do them separately.