I remember seeing on a stream in the last 2-3 weeks that a Delta-7 moved, attempted to boost but failed. The player then claimed that since the action failed they were not required to spend the force for said action.

I know that if you fail a red boost or red barrel roll action... it's a failed action but you don't gain the stress (per rules reference under "fail" . page 11). So I'm wondering what the timing is with fine-tuned controls. It appears that you spend the force... then attempt to perform the action. If it's failed... the timing of how things occurred means that the force was spent to attempt. But just wondering how this has been ruled or interpreted in the community.

I hate to "Um actually" here but... um... actually... per the rules on Page 11 under "Fail:"

Quote

After a red action fails, the ship gains a stress token.

So you definitely DO get the stress token from a failed red boost or barrel roll.

Regarding the "no force spent for a failed Fine-Tuned," that is a definite mistake. My resoning:

1. Per the RRG under Fail , a failed action doesn't NOT resolve, it is instead resolved "in a default way."
2. The default resolution of a failed boost or barrel roll is that the ship is returned to its point of origination.
3. At the very bottom of page two, under Paying Costs , it states that "A ship can pay a cost for an effect only if the effect can be resolved."
4. Since the failed boost is still resolved (in a default way), the cost is still required to be paid.

34 minutes ago, Sephlar said:

I remember seeing on a stream in the last 2-3 weeks

Whos stream? Was it FFG's? If not, then take the rulings they make with a grain of salt.

If it was FFGs, know that most of they time they are correct, but it is possible for them to make an error when they are streaming as they are both trying to play and respond to community questions. Going by official rules is always best.

I get the feeling you're referencing an old version of the Rules Reference. This is the most recent one: https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/48/4d/484d07ae-6bdf-4e42-89af-180f728ad059/swzrulesreference_v104-compressedv2.pdf

As for your question, they should have paid the force charge for the failed action since it still resolves as @emeraldbeacon explained.

Firstly... I mistyped. I definitely know that after a red boost or barrel roll fails, the stress is still taken.

Obviously the phrasing of fine tuned (you may spend 1 "force"...) is a bit different than a red action that can fail.

Mostly I only ask this question because the streamer in question is very prominent in the xwing scene. It may have simply been a mistake at the time.

I tend to agree that in the spirit of how the rules are played, when a card reads that "you may spend 'this' to perform an action." And that action fails... the timing of when such things occur would suggest that the force was already spent and you don't "get it back."

I'm just looking for clarification. Whether its me doing it or my opponent... I can't stand when an interaction on a major ship type in the meta has something that is not 100% clear. Every once in a while we run into these things and it seems so simple to just call it out specifically in the rules reference.

it is 100% clear though. if the boost action fails, it is resolved in a default way instead, according to the rules reference. the cost is paid for the opportunity to perform a boost action. the "perform a boost or barrel roll action" has resolved. in a default way. you didn't get the effect you desired, but you still have to pay the cost.

3 hours ago, Sephlar said:

Obviously the phrasing of fine tuned (you may spend 1 "force"...) is a bit different than a red action that can fail.

Mostly I only ask this question because the streamer in question is very prominent in the xwing scene. It may have simply been a mistake at the time.

The player in question was most likely mistaken in their rules interpretation. "Failed" Actions are something that, to this date, remain confusing for many players; I'm not surprised there was some confusion around that situation.

There is, of course, a chance they were trying to exploit another player's unfamiliarity with the rules to achieve an in-game advantage... but that's not an accusation that should ever be thrown around, without some kind of evidence to back it up.

The other point is that you spend the force to get a chance to do the thing. There's nothing that says you get it back if the thing fails, so you don't.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

The other point is that you spend the force to get a chance to do the thing. There's nothing that says you get it back if the thing fails, so you don't.

Which is one of the points of contention for other abilities as well, like Sense (at Range 0-3) or Darth Vader crew (do you measure before or after spending force, etc)... but those are other topics.

2 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

Which is one of the points of contention for other abilities as well, like Sense (at Range 0-3) or Darth Vader crew (do you measure before or after spending force, etc)... but those are other topics.

I know what the answers are to both of those but they're very much a derail so