Hello Community!

I am having problems with a Lieutenenant Tavson list in my local community.

Lieutenant Tavson (64)
Advanced Optics (4)
Pattern Analyzer (5)
Perceptive Copilot (8)
Captain Phasma (5)
Heavy Laser Cannon (4)
Shield Upgrade (4)

“Muse” (31)
Crack Shot (1)

“Scorch” (34)
Advanced Optics (4)

“Longshot” (32)
Advanced Optics (4)
Total: 200

Obviously it's one version of the Lieutenant Tavson tournament-netlists.

It's incredibly strong, offering some great options (lots of focus tokens, dealing stress, getting additional actions) and even though the combat was very close and tough, I was not able to beat this list the last time I met it.

So I need a better preperation for the next fight.

I have to find a way to beat this particular list, playing rebels myself, otherwise this will most likely be the upcoming champion of my local community.

Do you know any (Rebel) counters? What are the weaknesses of this list?

don't shoot tavson if he can shoot anything else that turn.

Tavson is vulnerable to in game counter play. More so than most other good ships in the meta.

• Don't Shoot Tavson, its a darwin test
• Try to Avoid Tavson's arc, he only has one and cant reposition
• Gas Clouds are dumb but rocks/debri exist, use them. Make Tavson work for his joust or flank ( i.e. Work through rocks ).
• Get Behind Tavson and he becomes mostly irrelevant.
• Take pot shots at Tavson from out of arc only if he wont coordinate something thats also shooting you or jam you before you defend
• Destroy everything besides Tavson first. Almost Always unless the FO player did something really weird on approach.
• Your win condition can be Tavson on half points end of game, you dont need to destroy everything just play to 75 min if you need to.
• If you are using an Aces list you start the game with a massive advantage ( even with Phasma ). You just have to opt into that advantage.
• If you are using a Swarm List, especially 1 with 2 dice attacks be aware that Re-Enforced tavson says nope to alot of damage. More reasons why you shouldnt be shooting him.
• If you are running a Rebel Beef 4 ship list make sure you dont run this in a block formation, your advantage becomes your multiple arcs vs Tavsons 1 big arc. Dont get into a Big 4 ship box Arc v Big Arc battle.
• Dont block and then shoot tavson that defeats the purpose. Block him and shoot something else. 4 dice without mods isnt something you need to worry about.

Rebel Lists that hard counter Tavson involve mobility.

• Anything that can boost
• Anything that can k turn
• Anything with more than 1 arc or a rotate
• Anything that can approach out of formation ( Basically everything )
• Anything that can perma block Tavson ( U-Wings are excellent at this, not just to prevent mods but to prevent arc on target ).

If rebels is your Jam and your worried about that specific list I would run my favorite Rebel List ( Luke, Wedge, Jake, +1 ).

4 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

• Don't Shoot Tavson, its a darwin test

Love this

I want to say, firstly, this isn't a 'netlist', look at Tavson's typical wingmates and upgrades. They do not match this squad at all.

https://meta.listfortress.com/pilots/290?

Secondly, that list is bad. All of the firepower is Tavson, as he costs a whopping 94.

The answer isn't in listbuilding, it's "Don't let tavson get to shoot you"- You need to actually set dials and make good in-game decisions.

Get behind him, eliminate the entire rest of the list (literally only 3 TIE Fighters) and virtually anything can finish Tavson off- He can't turn around.

Garven Dreis (X-Wing) (47)

Predator (2)

Proton Torpedoes (13)

R2 Astromech (4)

Servomotor S-Foils (0)

Ship total: 66 Half Points: 33 Threshold: 3

Luke Skywalker (62)

Proton Torpedoes (13)

R2 Astromech (4)

Servomotor S-Foils (0)

Ship total: 79 Half Points: 40 Threshold: 3

"Dutch" Vander (40)

Proton Torpedoes (13) Ship total: 53 Half Points: 27 Threshold: 4 Total: 198

Three fully modded proton torps usually solves most of my problems. Just give him initiative and giggle as you move (but more importantly place) after his entire list to set up your strike. You could even have wedge instead of garven, but then you lose some of the frills and regeneration is just too good to skip imo.

15 minutes ago, Nyxen said:

Garven Dreis (X-Wing) (47)

Predator (2)

Proton Torpedoes (13)

R2 Astromech (4)

Servomotor S-Foils (0)

Ship total: 66 Half Points: 33 Threshold: 3

Luke Skywalker (62)

Proton Torpedoes (13)

R2 Astromech (4)

Servomotor S-Foils (0)

Ship total: 79 Half Points: 40 Threshold: 3

"Dutch" Vander (40)

Proton Torpedoes (13) Ship total: 53 Half Points: 27 Threshold: 4 Total: 198

Three fully modded proton torps usually solves most of my problems. Just give him initiative and giggle as you move (but more importantly place) after his entire list to set up your strike. You could even have wedge instead of garven, but then you lose some of the frills and regeneration is just too good to skip imo.

OP, this is **** advice- Do not take it.

If this entire alpha strike goes off onto Tavson, he will take ~ 6 damage and his list will kill Luke in return.

Then Tavson can force a R1 engage into Garven/Dutch, likely trading Tavson for Garven.

This is an awful endgame of 3 TIE/FO bullying a no-torps dutch, which unless your opponent is a caveman, you will lose.

Trying to use a card combo to kill a 12 health reinforced ship is a fool's errand. Just outplay it.

1) That’s not a netlist. When I first started playing I hated, absolutely hated, when I would bring something to the game store and players assumed I netlisted it since I used known pilots and I beat them with it. It’s like if they think it’s a netlist it makes their loss not feel as bad? The consequence was it made my win not feel as good.

2) Netlisting isn’t a bad thing. Some prefer to list build themselves, some try to list build themselves but always fail, and some don’t attempt because they know they’re bad at it. People just want to enjoy the game, if they’re bad at list building or don’t have time to list build, they’ll netlist. Nothing wrong with netlisting.

Approach from multiple angles. Let them commit to one ship, get the others behind Tavson. Then and only then, shoot Tavson. Otherwise you kill Muse (who helps Tavson way too much), Scorch, then Longshot in that order.

Rebels have everything they need. Xwings have boost and focus to get out of Tavson arc. Jake or Arvel can get behind tavson with ease. If you are just running something like 4 bwings, then you might be SOL.

Yeah, that's not a typical Tavson netlist at all. Just because someone's using a popular ship, doesn't make the whole list a netlist. Regardless, the best answer to Tavson in any list is just not to shoot them. Kill everything else first, or take shots when you're not in danger of taking return fire from Tavson. Dodging an Upsilon's arc is relatively easy given the ship's lack of reposition and its single arc. I played against a Tavson list yesterday and my opponent conceded with Tavson on 2 shields and 6 hull because the rest of his list was dead and an I3 Upsilon stands no chance against 3 healthy ships that move after him and are already behind him.

Alright I was wrong about the netlist part then.

I just though it was one, because some Tavson lists seem to be very popular in tournaments right now and there are quite a few different ones.

Thanks for all the info so far, by the way.

I should mention that 100% dodging Tavson is possible but not necessary to win consistently.
He will probably still get at least 1 or 2 shots if your doing things right. Trick is that he only has a focus for the first of those shots and has to switch targets for the second.
Important not to take the "dont shoot tavson" advice to literally. Allowing a full multi round Tavson flank isnt a great strategy either, but thats where rocks and mobility come into play. It is after all a game.

1 hour ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

OP, this is **** advice- Do not take it.

If this entire alpha strike goes off onto Tavson, he will take ~ 6 damage and his list will kill Luke in return.

Then Tavson can force a R1 engage into Garven/Dutch, likely trading Tavson for Garven.

This is an awful endgame of 3 TIE/FO bullying a no-torps dutch, which unless your opponent is a caveman, you will lose.

Trying to use a card combo to kill a 12 health reinforced ship is a fool's errand. Just outplay it.

I mean, I suppose it was worded in a way that implied targeting tavson was option A, but it's really just a way to kill an FO and a half turn 1 of shooting before snowballing from there. Putting 6-9 damage into tavson in one volley is the backup plan.

psst, Jamming Beams are 0 pts and mess up Tavison pretty bad.

5 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

psst, Jamming Beams are 0 pts and mess up Tavison pretty bad.

^^^^^ This.

One of our local players usually includes two jamming beams when he runs his four ship rebel list, on the off chance that he'll play against a list that can reinforce.

Other than that, when I play against an upsilon I usually try to take out the other targets first.

Once they're gone and assuming you can get behind it, it's pretty much game over.

In short, the answer isn't listbuilding. Giving listbuilding counters is lazy and poor advice for improving, and it will frequently make your list less effective overall.

If you trade shots with Tavson, you will lose almost always, even with bad Tavson loadouts like the OP's friend's.

However, Tavson cannot unilaterally decide to trade shots. He is not maneuverable in the slightest and if you get behind him or to his sides, with a modicum of skill, you can ensure he will never shoot again.

Tavson's high cost in OP's friend's list (ninety-*******-four) ensures **** wingmen that are unable to kill things before they get behind Tavson/things that are behind tavson effectively.

4 hours ago, Tlfj200 said:

don't shoot tavson if he can shoot anything else that turn.

That's so many levels of feelsbadman.

4 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Don't Shoot Tavson, its a darwin test

3 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

I should mention that 100% dodging Tavson is possible but not necessary to win consistently.

3 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Important not to take the "dont shoot tavson" advice to literally. Allowing a full multi round Tavson flank isnt a great strategy either, but thats where rocks and mobility come into play. It is after all a game.

This

2 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

psst, Jamming Beams are 0 pts and mess up Tavison pretty bad.

1 hour ago, underling said:

^^^^^ This.

Actually, not this.

Don't shoot tavson, don't let tavson flank you.

Don't be cute with tavson and use jamming beams. Just kill his friends.

My best success involved a block, and a lot of luck.

Blocked him onto a rock, and then was able to keep him there another turn.

Gave me chance to shoot at his squad mates.

#Edit. But yeah, Tavson with Phasma is very high on my hate list.

Played against a lot of Tavson and a lot of the above is spot on.

A. Do not let Tavson shoot you.

B. Can you get behind him yet? No?

C. Continue to not let him shoot you.

D. Now get behind him and kill everything. You have a massive squad advantage. If you ended up down on points getting to this point, you better have left enough time to get them back. So do not repeat steps A-C indefinitely.

E. Do not chase points on Tavson while he has wingmates who are still a danger, he is now irrelevant.

IMPORTANT NOTE. Remember, Muse can let him perma stop, continually 1 hard, run over debris and enable him to still get vital actions if you shoot him. If you can see you're going to struggle to find your way round his arc, kill Muse with extreme prejudice. If/when Muse is out of the picture, take your opportunity when he's stressed.

When he brings QD/Kylo/Blackout/SBP instead of 2 TIEs. Be on your toes. That's a netlist.

8 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Tavson is vulnerable to in game counter play. More so than most other good ships in the meta.

• Don't Shoot Tavson, its a darwin test
• Try to Avoid Tavson's arc, he only has one and cant reposition
• Gas Clouds are dumb but rocks/debri exist, use them. Make Tavson work for his joust or flank ( i.e. Work through rocks ).
• Get Behind Tavson and he becomes mostly irrelevant.
• Take pot shots at Tavson from out of arc only if he wont coordinate something thats also shooting you or jam you before you defend
• Destroy everything besides Tavson first. Almost Always unless the FO player did something really weird on approach.
• Your win condition can be Tavson on half points end of game, you dont need to destroy everything just play to 75 min if you need to.
• If you are using an Aces list you start the game with a massive advantage ( even with Phasma ). You just have to opt into that advantage.
• If you are using a Swarm List, especially 1 with 2 dice attacks be aware that Re-Enforced tavson says nope to alot of damage. More reasons why you shouldnt be shooting him.
• If you are running a Rebel Beef 4 ship list make sure you dont run this in a block formation, your advantage becomes your multiple arcs vs Tavsons 1 big arc. Dont get into a Big 4 ship box Arc v Big Arc battle.
• Dont block and then shoot tavson that defeats the purpose. Block him and shoot something else. 4 dice without mods isnt something you need to worry about.

Rebel Lists that hard counter Tavson involve mobility.

• Anything that can boost
• Anything that can k turn
• Anything with more than 1 arc or a rotate
• Anything that can approach out of formation ( Basically everything )
• Anything that can perma block Tavson ( U-Wings are excellent at this, not just to prevent mods but to prevent arc on target ).

If rebels is your Jam and your worried about that specific list I would run my favorite Rebel List ( Luke, Wedge, Jake, +1 ).

Boom, can you just do a similar write up on every top tier list in the game going forward? I'd also like some counsel on my Hera / Miranda / Jake list. That would be nice. Thanks.

37 minutes ago, Cloaker said:

Boom, can you just do a similar write up on every top tier list in the game going forward? I'd also like some counsel on my Hera / Miranda / Jake list. That would be nice. Thanks.

Tavson is just easier to counter via in game strategy than most top tier things.
Start another "How to fight...XYZ" thread and preface it with "In game strategy only, I dont want any list building advice."
Best to make 1 thread about 1 archetype or list. Gets the most value from the conversation.
Then we can all discuss it together

2 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Tavson is just easier to counter via in game strategy than most top tier things.
Start another "How to fight...XYZ" thread and preface it with "In game strategy only, I dont want any list building advice."
Best to make 1 thread about 1 archetype or list. Gets the most value from the conversation.
Then we can all discuss it together

9 hours ago, Schu81 said:

I am having problems with a Lieutenenant Tavson list in my local community.

Lieutenant Tavson (64)
Advanced Optics (4)
Pattern Analyzer (5)
Perceptive Copilot (8)
Captain Phasma (5)
Heavy Laser Cannon (4)
Shield Upgrade (4)

“Muse” (31)
Crack Shot (1)

“Scorch” (34)
Advanced Optics (4)

“Longshot” (32)
Advanced Optics (4)
Total: 200

I have to find a way to beat this particular list, playing rebels myself, otherwise this will most likely be the upcoming champion of my local community.

Take a breath man, it's an upsilon. Look up its dial. Now, isn't that better?

2 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

When he brings QD/Kylo/Blackout/SBP instead of 2 TIEs. Be on your toes. That's a netlist.

This.

Get a pint mate, it's the weekend!