2 hours ago, FastWalker said:

How has the Saber tank performed despite the lack of hardpoints? Worth it?

Sorry, I didn't answer that question directly. It's worth it if you know how to run the rest of your army. I think it offers more bang for the buck than a BARC speeder does (or even three). If I can run my clones well then I can use the tanks as flankers.

I haven't played around with the Saber yet, as I tend to avoid proxying in stuff that hasn't been fully revealed. Don't want to form an opinion on something based on incomplete data. I am looking forward to it, as I have a serious nostalgic connection to it going back to its introduction in The Clone Wars game in '02, and later in the Battlefront games.

I've been a little worried about Imperial armor recently myself, thinking that it would be incredibly problematic to rely on the DC-15 picking up surges/crits, or Z-6s getting natural crits. On Tuesday I had the opportunity to face off against an AT-ST list, and was able to tear it down pretty effectively. Obi did the vast majority of the damage, 5 wounds across two attacks. Critical 2, Impact 2 is pretty dang effective when backed up by an aim token or two, and while they're not guaranteed, the DC-15/Z-6s were able to get the last wound through without too much trouble. Can't wait for Rex's surge to crit to be fire supported by a Z-6.

3 hours ago, Alpha17 said:

I haven't played around with the Saber yet, as I tend to avoid proxying in stuff that hasn't been fully revealed. Don't want to form an opinion on something based on incomplete data. I am looking forward to it, as I have a serious nostalgic connection to it going back to its introduction in The Clone Wars game in '02, and later in the Battlefront games.

I've been a little worried about Imperial armor recently myself, thinking that it would be incredibly problematic to rely on the DC-15 picking up surges/crits, or Z-6s getting natural crits. On Tuesday I had the opportunity to face off against an AT-ST list, and was able to tear it down pretty effectively. Obi did the vast majority of the damage, 5 wounds across two attacks. Critical 2, Impact 2 is pretty dang effective when backed up by an aim token or two, and while they're not guaranteed, the DC-15/Z-6s were able to get the last wound through without too much trouble. Can't wait for Rex's surge to crit to be fire supported by a Z-6.

I bet Rex will be a staple for Republic lists moving forward. He's so much better than the BAARC.

58 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

I bet Rex will be a staple for Republic lists moving forward. He's so much better than the BAARC.

I too can't wait for Rex to be available. The point cost savings will be great to fit a Saber and enough core units with upgrades.

Oh, undoubtedly. From the looks of it, he'll be a great supporting commander, and yet able to throw some serious damage down range at the enemy. Only issue I see is getting him into range 2, which won't be fun, but I'm certain we'll figure it out. The plus side of that is in Obi/Rex lists, they have to worry about two close range units running at them, which makes it difficult to concentrate their fire.

Couple more games with my list, and no real problems encountered. Couple things that might be worth sharing though.

Last week's game had Kenobi get nuked off the table round 1 by a misplay on my part/my opponent focus firing with every unit he had. While painful, the Clones were able to narrowly squeak a win through in the end. It was interesting to see how powerful an undamaged Clone squad was in the late game, while at the same time a lone survivor could also help considerably by generating tokens. There doesn't seem to be a happy medium way of fighting clones. Other than Kenobi biting the dust early, the biggest problem I had was actually the T-47; my list doesn't have any organic Impact other than Kenobi, and he's useless against the airspeeder. Thankfully Critical 1 and a few lucky rolls with the Z-6 was able to peck away at it.

This week's game saw Kenobi take on Palpatine, and despite taking 3 blows from "And now you will die!" Obi walked away with less damage than the Senate did. Fire support really helps to overcome Palpatine's defense bonuses as well, as even with a Royal Guard unit, and a dodge, a Z-6 squad and the survivors of my Clone Paras were able to get the kill. Kenobi meanwhile found himself sparing with some Royal Guardsmen, and slowly chipping away at them.

Playing through a run of bad luck right now, and tweaking the army again. Trying to give the army a bit more punch, so I'm giving the rocket side car another chance. Still not sure it's worth it, as the BARC just explodes way too quickly for my liking, and the extra troopers help keep Z-6s in the fight.

But jeez, my red die suck. After a two other terrible games this week, I decided to keep track of how mine did. Pretty far below what they should have been doing.

My opponent's were almost perfectly average, sitting at 50.8% blocks, and 66% with surges. It's amazing how much of a difference that makes.

On 10/16/2019 at 8:06 AM, Alpha17 said:

Hey, you got the same coin capsules I got from Amazon for the Order tokens. Did you get them from Amazon too? Or elsewhere?

It took 5 weeks on slowboat from China. The order was for 100 capsules. With tax, each cost $0.15 each. I kept enough for 2 armies and sold the rest to my local friends.

Back to topic: How aggressive do you play Obi? What commander or elite units are you afraid to have Obi face off against?

I was really psyched for clones.
But the releases so far, even including the next wave, are just not good.

Obi - competent
Rex - competent
Phase 1's - competent, but pricey for what they do

Phase 2's - overpriced, but could see use in certain situations
Tank - it's a point sink vehicle, so won't see use in my tournament lists
BARC - overpriced, too slow/easy to kill for points

There's just nothing that really 'EXCITES' me about the faction right now.

It's very depressing.

13 hours ago, FastWalker said:

Hey, you got the same coin capsules I got from Amazon for the Order tokens. Did you get them from Amazon too? Or elsewhere?

It took 5 weeks on slowboat from China. The order was for 100 capsules. With tax, each cost $0.15 each. I kept enough for 2 armies and sold the rest to my local friends.

Back to topic: How aggressive do you play Obi? What commander or elite units are you afraid to have Obi face off against?

I got mine off Ebay. Didn't take too terribly long to arrive, but the seller was US-based. I only got ten, because I plan on only using them for the Republic, and that's more than enough for the moment. Hopefully they'll be a temporary solution, and I'll find a third party token set to replace them with. I love my metal command tokens from Mynock/Fly Better Podcast, but they haven't made CW faction versions yet, sadly.

As for playing Kenobi, it really depends on the board state. I usually try to keep him back within the murder ball of Clones for the first round or two, but after that it's time for the good General to earn his pay. As for what units I'm afraid to have him face off, that depends. I'm leery with having him fight Luke, Vader, another Kenobi, or Grievous because the match up is too close. That said, if I can hit any of them hard with Clones, and then sic Obi on 'em, I'll jump at the chance. The only unit I've found to give Kenobi a hard time if played right is Royal Guardsmen, as they can have a good defense, and be immune to pierce. Kinda annoying, but again, if I hit 'em hard earlier, or get them without a surge token, I can wreck shop.

10 hours ago, lologrelol said:

I was really psyched for clones.
But the releases so far, even including the next wave, are just not good.

Obi - competent
Rex - competent
Phase 1's - competent, but pricey for what they do

Phase 2's - overpriced, but could see use in certain situations
Tank - it's a point sink vehicle, so won't see use in my tournament lists
BARC - overpriced, too slow/easy to kill for points

There's just nothing that really 'EXCITES' me about the faction right now.

It's very depressing.

I mean, I find Phase Is to be outstanding, assuming your red die remember their statistical average, and Obi is amazing. We'll see about Rex. Guess your mileage may vary with them. Only thing I can say to that is give it time; for a similar number of release with the GCW, the only Imperial units I liked were Veers and Stormtroopers.

15 hours ago, Alpha17 said:

I love my metal command tokens from Mynock/Fly Better Podcast, but they haven't made CW faction versions yet, sadly.

As for playing Kenobi, it really depends on the board state. I usually try to keep him back within the murder ball of Clones for the first round or two, but after that it's time for the good General to earn his pay. As for what units I'm afraid to have him face off, that depends. I'm leery with having him fight Luke, Vader, another Kenobi, or Grievous because the match up is too close. That said, if I can hit any of them hard with Clones, and then sic Obi on 'em, I'll jump at the chance. The only unit I've found to give Kenobi a hard time if played right is Royal Guardsmen, as they can have a good defense, and be immune to pierce. Kinda annoying, but again, if I hit 'em hard earlier, or get them without a surge token, I can wreck shop.

I mean, I find Phase Is to be outstanding, assuming your red die remember their statistical average, and Obi is amazing. We'll see about Rex. Guess your mileage may vary with them. Only thing I can say to that is give it time; for a similar number of release with the GCW, the only Imperial units I liked were Veers and Stormtroopers.

Metal Command Tokens are cool. But too rich for my blood. I'm already spending too much on Curled Paw Creative acrylic tokens for XWing. For Legion, I decided to stick with card board tokens. The coin capsules were a cheap way to make my Order tokens look nice.

Good to know which units to avoid with my Obi. Though, my Obi had no problems against Grievous. My opponent was too afraid to injure Obi + Tenacity and engaged my troopers. When Obi came in on the next turn, Obi took away half of Grievous wounds. If my dice were slightly more lucky, Grievous would have died the next round instead of surviving on 1 HP. Must've been luck on my side.

As for Phase Is, I can't wait for more GAR options, especially Operatives and Special Forces. GAR armies are so limited and pricey. I can't believe how much FFG priced Clone Troopers at in terms of points. CIS have limited options but their army builds are much better than GAR. Sad.

8 hours ago, FastWalker said:

Metal Command Tokens are cool. But too rich for my blood. I'm already spending too much on Curled Paw Creative acrylic tokens for XWing. For Legion, I decided to stick with card board tokens. The coin capsules were a cheap way to make my Order tokens look nice.

Good to know which units to avoid with my Obi. Though, my Obi had no problems against Grievous. My opponent was too afraid to injure Obi + Tenacity and engaged my troopers. When Obi came in on the next turn, Obi took away half of Grievous wounds. If my dice were slightly more lucky, Grievous would have died the next round instead of surviving on 1 HP. Must've been luck on my side.

As for Phase Is, I can't wait for more GAR options, especially Operatives and Special Forces. GAR armies are so limited and pricey. I can't believe how much FFG priced Clone Troopers at in terms of points. CIS have limited options but their army builds are much better than GAR. Sad.

I've just had too many cases where Grievous rolls really well, and my cursed red defense die, spawns of Satan that they are, decide that now would be an excellent time to blank out, and Kenobi goes from perfect health to nearly dead. I like giving old Ben a bit of a leg up before going into melee to keep that from happening.

Well, after being curb stomped by most of the people I played at Warfaire Weekend, it's back to the drawing board for my Clone army. I've already put away the BARC, and hopefully it won't see the light of day for a long time, a long time. It wasn't always completely hot garbage, but it really just felt like wasted points most of the time, and while the rocket side care helped, it wasn't enough. So, on to Obisaurus Rex

On 11/11/2019 at 8:00 AM, Alpha17 said:

Well, after being curb stomped by most of the people I played at Warfaire Weekend, it's back to the drawing board for my Clone army.

List name "Obisaurus Rex"

Aw, sorry you and your GAR army didn't do well during Warfaire Weekend.

I'm putting your advice to heart. That being said:

How much of a disadvantage do you feel when you only have 8 activations?

What is your reason for 4xDC15s / 2xZ6s pattern? How does it compare to a 3/3 split? Or a build with all DC15s?

I agree with what you said about Obi. Though, i do find players scared of a Tenacity Obi and tend to not shoot at him.

For Rex, am I assuming correctly that you want Recon Intel on him for that extra move because of his Range 2 weapon? Why not a deeper bid and keep Rex further back? I think my cagey gamestyle has a hard time placing Commanders in front.

As for Snow Kangaroos ( 😆 ), I feel lucky that they aren't in my local meta. Cuz I'm super scared of them and Dewbacks (whenever they arrive).

17 hours ago, FastWalker said:

Aw, sorry you and your GAR army didn't do well during Warfaire Weekend.

I'm putting your advice to heart. That being said:

How much of a disadvantage do you feel when you only have 8 activations?

What is your reason for 4xDC15s / 2xZ6s pattern? How does it compare to a 3/3 split? Or a build with all DC15s?

I agree with what you said about Obi. Though, i do find players scared of a Tenacity Obi and tend to not shoot at him.

For Rex, am I assuming correctly that you want Recon Intel on him for that extra move because of his Range 2 weapon? Why not a deeper bid and keep Rex further back? I think my cagey gamestyle has a hard time placing Commanders in front.

As for Snow Kangaroos ( 😆 ), I feel lucky that they aren't in my local meta. Cuz I'm super scared of them and Dewbacks (whenever they arrive).

In order

Activations: Its not generally a problem, but with some list types activation orders it gets to be a real pain. Examples of that at WW were when trying to get Tauntauns into range to shoot; cagey players would wait to move them until I had already activated everything, and then use their snipers to remove standbys off of a key unit, then run the snow kangaroos from **** in. At that point, there wasn't a whole lot I could do about it, as the terrain wasn't working in my favor.

Split: I prefer the DC-15 over the Z-6, both in lore and in the game. It's my favorite SW gun, so I have an attachment to it, and I generally think it's a better choice for attacks than the wildly variable Z-6. I include Z-6s almost solely for Fire support or anti-armor attacks when I need a massive die pool to try and get a few extra crits. I'm not opposed to a 3/3, but I've been burned a few times by having a Z-6 where I wanted a DC-15, and want to try and minimize that.

Rex: Recon intel on him means a speed 2 move with his scouting party buddies. That will help push several clones (or Obi) up into position before the game starts. I get not wanting to put a commander in the front (I primarily played the generic Imperial Officer before the Republic came out, and they die super easily) That said, if you're going to make use of Rex, he needs to close the distance. The key will be using the terrain to keep him out of LOS until you get within Range 2, hopefully.

Tauntauns: Yeah, fear the snow kangaroos. They're nasty, especially if you face someone that knows how to use them, and their dice are running hot. The sheer action economy, as well as the free pair of crits from Ram is annoying, and the suppression of having them run through your troops is especially so.

Played in a casual tournament yesterday, and decided to try some of the changes people have been suggesting for some time. The list I ran was:

Obi-Wan Kenobi (Force Reflexes, Force Push, Strict Orders, Tenacity)
Clone Captain Rex (Aggressive Tactics, Recon Intel)
Phase I Clone Troopers (DC-15 Phase I Trooper, Recon Intel)
Phase I Clone Troopers (Z-6 Phase I Trooper)
Phase I Clone Troopers (DC-15 Phase I Trooper, Recon Intel)
Phase I Clone Troopers (DC-15 Phase I Trooper, Recon Intel)
Phase I Clone Troopers (Z-6 Phase I Trooper)
Phase I Clone Troopers (DC-15 Phase I Trooper, Recon Intel)

I had a bye the first round, so only 2 rounds of play with this, and the results were mixed. Lost round 2 due to time, as my opponent rush the middle objective as I was obliterating his forces. If we'd gone into round 4, things would have been different. I forgot to use tenacity for every one of Obi's attacks, and my one use of Force Push actually cost me the game, as it allowed my opponent to move guns into a position as they ran from Kenobi. (a few other factors contributed, but we won't go into that now) Certainly a misplay on my part, but I'm not sure what else I could have done there. On the plus side, I rolled this attack on double dodge token Tauntauns through Heavy cover. Did my heart good to see that, and I also got a double standby attack on a tauntaun unit as well.

The next game also had some interesting developments. I again forgot Tenacity every time it could have been used, and I also had a great roll. My opponent thought he could take advantage of Limited Vis to push Boba Fett up, and hit my flank hard turn two. Unfortunately for him, he did this fairly early in round one, and I took 3 activations to build up aim tokens, then hit him (through heavy cover) with a DC-15/Z-6 fire support attack. Ended up with 13 hits/crits, with 11 after cover. Boba only blocked 5 of them. The game was pretty much over from there, but we kept playing, and it didn't get any better for him. He did suppressed the living daylights out of a Z-6 squad, but I just kept using them for Fire support, so it never mattered. We got into double digits on suppression tokens, so that was neat.

This game I didn't ever use Force Push, and I can only think of a single time where it may have actually been useful, where Obi killed all but one stormtrooper. I could have FPed them out of engagement, and and let a squad of clones take care of him. The game ended before it became an issue, but it was the one time I could have made use of it.

Overall, the list functioned as it was designed to. I do wish I had remembered to use FP in game 2, and I hadn't used it in game 1, but oh well. I'll probably give it another try or two, but I'm still not sold on it, and it will likely receive some more modifications.

How did you like the feel of not running any BARCs? You noted that you didn't use FS that much. Was this because your plans were different? Or because you didn't have the BARCS to create good FS opportunities?

Oh dumping the BARC has been great. I've not had a single time where I missed it or it really could have helped me. Rex is a better, through harder, unit to fire support. I don't use fire support all that often in general because I feel that's a bit of a trap, but when I did (for instance, taking Boba out in 1 shot, or with the squad that was getting suppressed) it's usually because I want to do my best to kill something now. With enough surge tokens, either through Aggressive Tactics or Obi's cards, the surge to hit of the BARC isn't really missed at all, even when I can't fire support Rex.

34 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

I don't use fire support all that often in general because I feel that's a bit of a trap, but when I did (for instance, taking Boba out in 1 shot, or with the squad that was getting suppressed) it's usually because I want to do my best to kill something now.

I think this is exactly how FS should be seen, it is a trap unless you are killing a unit, particularly an unactivated unit

3 hours ago, Alpha17 said:

Oh dumping the BARC has been great. I've not had a single time where I missed it or it really could have helped me. Rex is a better, through harder, unit to fire support. I don't use fire support all that often in general because I feel that's a bit of a trap, but when I did (for instance, taking Boba out in 1 shot, or with the squad that was getting suppressed) it's usually because I want to do my best to kill something now. With enough surge tokens, either through Aggressive Tactics or Obi's cards, the surge to hit of the BARC isn't really missed at all, even when I can't fire support Rex.

Agree. Finding better alternatives for BARCs is very much desired. Though, my experiences with BARC are not as dismal as yours, since they have won me multiple games by their fast movement or flanking enemies at key points. I hope FFG reduces the costs for BARCs in the near future. But, even after a point adjustment, they probably be in the same position as the Imperial Speeder Bikes.

2 hours ago, Cleto0 said:

I think this is exactly how FS should be seen, it is a trap unless you are killing a unit, particularly an unactivated unit

Agree. In my first game, I used Fire Support every chance I got. Then I quickly realized what a detriment that was. Now, FS is reserved for those cases where you need to delete an enemy unit, especially an enemy unit that is key to scoring/winning.

FS is great while you hold a massive dice pool, you look at your opponent in the eye, and look at the sea of green tokens surrounding your units. Its terrific!

I don't like the BARCs either, and was happy to replace them. Which sucks because I really liked the Imperial Speeder bikes, which feel versatile with their high speed, native impact, and the smaller base really helps with maneuverability. The base size makes such a huge difference when trying to land a BARC, and often severely limits where I can point my front arc. I do think that the speeder cost decrease went through when it was already too late for the BARC and cards were printed. Hopefully they'll get adjusted.

But the most disheartening part for me is how much stronger the Droidekas are. They're a powerful signature unit, and having up to 3 high toughness, suppressive weapons out of the core box for Separatists when we get a fairly boring and ineffective speeder feels pretty bad. I guess AT-RT vs Speeder Bikes gave a similar feel in the initial core sets?

Where the Droideka feels like a core part of the Separatist army, a versatile and powerful unit, the BARCs feel more like a nuisance than can be taken out in an attack or two.

32 minutes ago, OneLastMidnight said:

I don't like the BARCs either, and was happy to replace them. Which sucks because I really liked the Imperial Speeder bikes, which feel versatile with their high speed, native impact, and the smaller base really helps with maneuverability. The base size makes such a huge difference when trying to land a BARC, and often severely limits where I can point my front arc. I do think that the speeder cost decrease went through when it was already too late for the BARC and cards were printed. Hopefully they'll get adjusted.

But the most disheartening part for me is how much stronger the Droidekas are. They're a powerful signature unit, and having up to 3 high toughness, suppressive weapons out of the core box for Separatists when we get a fairly boring and ineffective speeder feels pretty bad. I guess AT-RT vs Speeder Bikes gave a similar feel in the initial core sets?

Where the Droideka feels like a core part of the Separatist army, a versatile and powerful unit, the BARCs feel more like a nuisance than can be taken out in an attack or two.

My sentiments exactly when I look at my opponents' Droidekas and wishing I had something similar. Or that BARCs were as effective for their point cost.

Currently, the only upside to a BARC is equipping an RPS-6 launcher and not worrying about Cumbersome keyword. Or equipping an ion weapon. But the point cost is too much and I rather have a Corps unit with RPS-6 launcher and deal with Cumbersome.

I think a combination of any of these would put the BARCs back on the table :

- A similar 15-point drop to the Imperial Speeders

- Armor 1

- Surge crit

- No damaged threshold

4 hours ago, OneLastMidnight said:

I think a combination of any of these would put the BARCs back on the table :

- A similar 15-point drop to the Imperial Speeders

- Armor 1

- Surge crit

- No damaged threshold

surge to crit is a very minimally better than surge to hit. Armor 1 is a serious boon for them, but I think armor 2 would be required as snipers are a great way to chip into BARCs. this would make them impossible to hit with snipers, which is seriously needed with only 5 health. I also think the damage threshold should be removed because it doesn't make much sense on bikes to not be able to move fast

5 hours ago, OneLastMidnight said:

I think a combination of any of these would put the BARCs back on the table :

- A similar 15-point drop to the Imperial Speeders

- Armor 1

- Surge crit

- No damaged threshold

Why not have the sidecar give the BARC extra Wounds by like 1, 2 or 3? You've essentially increased the personnel by 100% and increased its size by at least 33% (probably 50%).

48 minutes ago, Cleto0 said:

surge to crit is a very minimally better than surge to hit. Armor 1 is a serious boon for them, but I think armor 2 would be required as snipers are a great way to chip into BARCs. this would make them impossible to hit with snipers, which is seriously needed with only 5 health. I also think the damage threshold should be removed because it doesn't make much sense on bikes to not be able to move fast

Armor wouldn't make sense on a fast-moving, flanking unit. Not sure what to do against snipers. I'll be happy with removing the Damage Threshold and increase the Wound capacity.