42 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

If you already own armies, what's not to afford?

Although I don't think this much praised Underworlds will draw me in: initial web perusal indicates my miniatures collection will be useless in it.

Correct - Underworlds is more like a separate board game that happens to have minis. It’s not a “kill team” style skirmish game where the minis interchange both ways. I like it for what it is separately and not as a part of a larger minis game. They’re the only GW products I own right now, and treated in the context of “board game with expansions” I think it’s pretty solid. It’s not going to be a miniatures game replacement though.

I am hoping ffg comes out with skirmish size rules for Legion minis, since those are the minis I have a lot of and would happily play in another format.

2 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

I still don't understand cancelling an order, on a thing I actually want, over a short delay. By short I mean anything less than 6 months.

See as a gen X'er I really don't get this. Video games and movies regularly get 6month + date pushes and only the clickbait ads lose their minds. Niche markets push a soft release date out by several weeks and everyone grabs pitchforks, warranted or not.

What I think is really cute these days though is people still thinking closing their wallets improves anything.

PSA it doesn't!!!!! All it does (if they make any impact) is makes the bean counters nervous, who then go into damage control, which means the community at large goes without or have to put up with budget cut content.......

9 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

What I think is really cute these days though is people still thinking closing their wallets improves anything.

[Thinks about what happened to BF II]

I think it can help. It depends how much they have to lose.

In terms of TTGs, I doubt the people canceling preorders will stay "gone" forever. Once product is available I'm sure they'll be drawn to it again, so the loss is minimal, and FFG is unlikely to do any restructuring to prevent a deadline miss in the future.

With video game preorders/sales, it can be devastating to get negative feedback at or before launch, especially if the game is a high investment.

The response was so strong during BF II it got Disney to notice and deliver a swift backhand to EA. All the new content has been free. They've expanded both the online and single player to reflect player demands. They're trying HARD to keep player interest after the losses suffered at launch.

Looks like Activision and Infinity ward are next in the boat with this whole exclusivity blunder.

23 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

See as a gen X'er I really don't get this. Video games and movies regularly get 6month + date pushes and only the clickbait ads lose their minds. Niche markets push a soft release date out by several weeks and everyone grabs pitchforks, warranted or not.

What I think is really cute these days though is people still thinking closing their wallets improves anything.

PSA it doesn't!!!!! All it does (if they make any impact) is makes the bean counters nervous, who then go into damage control, which means the community at large goes without or have to put up with budget cut content.......

Oh I've put up with longer delays. I think most of the people who shut their wallets are the ones whose wallets are empty to begin with. Someone brashly pre-orders stuff they can't afford, and the leisurely pace of the delay lets them repent their poor financial decisions. Back when I was young and broke, I'd sometimes buy stuff I technically had the money for, but really shouldn't be spending on hobbies. The result was that the object was tainted with subconscious guilt and regret, and perfectly normal flaws in the product were blown out of proportion in my perception.

The only thing more annoying than a delay is a staggered release. It sucks when you’re seeing people in other countries getting something weeks before it’s available in your own country. So in a way I’m glad they pushed back the release so that everyone (with some rare exceptions) gets it at the same time.

I also don’t see the point in canceling a pre-order for something that you really want. That’s not going to make it come any sooner.

Just now, Braddock76ie said:

The only thing more annoying than a delay is a staggered release. It sucks when you’re seeing people in other countries getting something weeks before it’s available in your own country. So in a way I’m glad they pushed back the release so that everyone (with some rare exceptions) gets it at the same time.

I also don’t see the point in canceling a pre-order for something that you really want. That’s not going to make it come any sooner.

I have to ask... why? Why does it suck to see other people get something first? I can see it if it somehow delays you getting your stuff, but that's not the case. If them getting something first doesn't delay you getting it at all, wouldn't you want others to have fun? It's not like this is some sort of zero-sum game.

2 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

I have to ask... why? Why does it suck to see other people get something first?

Several reasons. If a product hits its advertised launch date and let’s say you’re in the UK, but it ends up only being released in Australia - That can be quite annoying, usually because you’re left questioning when or if your product is going to arrive at all?

Retailers also faces issues of customers complaining, wondering if it was an issue with their local store messing up orders rather than a distributor issue. They can also end up having some pre-orders cancelled by customers who instead decide to not wait and order from an overseas retailer instead which already received the stock.

5 minutes ago, Braddock76ie said:

Several reasons. If a product hits its advertised launch date and let’s say you’re in the UK, but it ends up only being released in Australia - That can be quite annoying, usually because you’re left questioning when or if your product is going to arrive at all?

Retailers also faces issues of customers complaining, wondering if it was an issue with their local store messing up orders rather than a distributor issue. They can also end up having some pre-orders cancelled by customers who instead decide to not wait and order from an overseas retailer instead which already received the stock.

Most of those issues apply to the situation we have now anyway, so I'm still not getting it, either directly because of the hold order, or because of the early release at GenCon.

34 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

I have to ask... why? Why does it suck to see other people get something first?

Because of the vices of envy and greed. But mostly envy.

Release Date October 18th.

3 weeks after original "stated" release date.

I wonder if it gets pushed back again.

4 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

Release Date October 18th.

3 weeks after original "stated" release date.

I wonder if it gets pushed back again.

I will wait until I see it in hand before I say it’s coming on this date.

I am also skeptical of the promised delivery of “by Christmas” for the other things they’ve said in the AMA. I’m betting the heavy upgrades get delayed

Honestly, I'd assume the majority of people would prefer a staggered release at this point. I feel like I'm echoing what others have said, but we know the product is in many warehouses worldwide. Shipping out to say, 90% of legion fans is going to make 90% of legion fans happy. I get it, the 10% will be fuming, but if it's an issue of competitive-play just don't make them competitively legal until they have been released everywhere intended. Holding onto product for the sake of principle and to appease the few seems like a bad marketing decision. Going forward, why not push back the competitive-play legality of products for everybody until region-specific delays are sorted out, instead of pushing back release dates for everyone? This way most people get their toys on time, and no one is at a disadvantage competitively.

"International same day releases are complicated"



My salt aside.

Glad they did this. I didn't get the answers I wanted, but at least they've made a solid release date known.

Whether they'll uphold it is yet to be seen.

So just Vader/Luke, the four unit packs, and the two terrians for this year......... So meh?

I guess it is at least good to know what we got coming, but I will still wonder why they would space clones wars so far apart. Just seems like an odd move from a hype point of view.

Also I could be wrong about this since I was listening at work, but it felt like they said they would now release a crap ton of units per faction now??? So maybe we get all CIS Jan and all of GAR Feb? Maybe that would explain the strange release gap.

44 minutes ago, RyantheFett said:

So just Vader/Luke, the four unit packs, and the two terrians for this year......... So meh?

I guess it is at least good to know what we got coming, but I will still wonder why they would space clones wars so far apart. Just seems like an odd move from a hype point of view.

Also I could be wrong about this since I was listening at work, but it felt like they said they would now release a crap ton of units per faction now??? So maybe we get all CIS Jan and all of GAR Feb? Maybe that would explain the strange release gap.

If you thought their distribution network had issues now, imagine the issues if they tried to push out FOUR new products in a single month. Especially products that anyone starting a Clone/Droid army are going to want/need to try to catch up options wise to the GCW armies.

7 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

If you already own armies, what's not to afford?

Although I don't think this much praised Underworlds will draw me in: initial web perusal indicates my miniatures collection will be useless in it.

I still don't understand cancelling an order, on a thing I actually want, over a short delay. By short I mean anything less than 6 months.

I could never resist the urge to keep buying and expanding trying to get ALL options and stuff to convert just for coolness. So even though I had well over 20,000 points spread over 5 different armies, Id have kept buying and buying to cover all options. And with new plastic sisters..... Im better off sticking with a game where there is a more.... finite amount of options. lol

I agree with you. No need to cancel an order for something you actually want. The only reason I could see would be if you ran into hard times and actually needed to put the money towards something else. Just because something is late being released..... that would only be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

22 minutes ago, EVIL INC said:

I could never resist the urge to keep buying and expanding trying to get ALL options and stuff to convert just for coolness. So even though I had well over 20,000 points spread over 5 different armies, Id have kept buying and buying to cover all options. And with new plastic sisters..... Im better off sticking with a game where there is a more.... finite amount of options. lol

I agree with you. No need to cancel an order for something you actually want. The only reason I could see would be if you ran into hard times and actually needed to put the money towards something else. Just because something is late being released..... that would only be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

That is indeed a thing about Warhammer. If you are so inclined there's always something left to spend money on... For reasons passing comprehension, this year, I set myself about the business of painting 3,000 points (that's the lowball number) of Undead using the 4th edition army book, and restricting myself to 80's and 90's models: stripping very old plastic skeletons is a bad idea so I sourced mint on sprue ones. My wallet was SOOOO sad!!! While I paint other stuff I'm gonna add a few odds and ends from my collection then add an extra 1,000 points or so of regiments to call it a solid 4,000 points and be done. Luckily, 3,000 points in 4th edition was a lot fewer models than it would be today.

Being this committed to a global release seems odd though. I don't get it.

6 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

[Thinks about what happened to BF II]

I think it can help. It depends how much they have to lose.

In terms of TTGs, I doubt the people canceling preorders will stay "gone" forever. Once product is available I'm sure they'll be drawn to it again, so the loss is minimal, and FFG is unlikely to do any restructuring to prevent a deadline miss in the future.

With video game preorders/sales, it can be devastating to get negative feedback at or before launch, especially if the game is a high investment.

The response was so strong during BF II it got Disney to notice and deliver a swift backhand to EA. All the new content has been free. They've expanded both the online and single player to reflect player demands. They're trying HARD to keep player interest after the losses suffered at launch.

Looks like Activision and Infinity ward are next in the boat with this whole exclusivity blunder.

Yeah and the fallout from that backhand still cost us other titles and originality in those titles as they start playing "safe" with the risk and instead trying to make money without really spending to do it.

The larger video game market is a classic example here. Go anywhere near funding sites and see how many games just can't get a green light from studios, no matter how talented the team or how good the idea.

10 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

Yeah and the fallout from that backhand still cost us other titles and originality in those titles as they start playing "safe" with the risk and instead trying to make money without really spending to do it.

I may be uninformed here, which titles suffered from this?

1 hour ago, Caimheul1313 said:

If you thought their distribution network had issues now, imagine the issues if they tried to push out FOUR new products in a single month. Especially products that anyone starting a Clone/Droid army are going to want/need to try to catch up options wise to the GCW armies.

The horrors!! Lol I am just spit balling on why FFG would throw terrain and solos for the other two factions before more Clone Wars (pretty sure we will never know)

Also, so going back and listening it does seem like they want change how they release stuff, but were not very clear about it(and somewhat admitted they had no idea). I'm guessing they will stick with groups like when they did Jyn/pathfinders then Krennic/Death? Which means a faction a month, but two units for that faction, but if it is vehicles will they do both factions since it is just one big item?................ It is weird I got more question after the Q&A?!?!?!

15 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

28 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

Yeah and the fallout from that backhand still cost us other titles and originality in those titles as they start playing "safe" with the risk and instead trying to make money without really spending to do it.

I may be uninformed here, which titles suffered from this?

I am also curious about this because I got a different vibe from the whole thing. Battlefront II is probably a better game because of the backlash and all the removal of all the pay to win. As for more titles I would say that Disney giving EA the sole ability to make games may be their greatest failing with the Star Wars franchise. Say what you want about the movies, comics, and books but at least they have some for people to hate/love. Lets just hope that the backhand either got Disney and/or EA to pump out some titles...........

On 9/30/2019 at 5:19 AM, R3dReVenge said:

A few more players cancelled their orders at my LGS this past weekend. That brings the total up to 17 people now. So disappointing.

this makes little to no sense to me

3 minutes ago, Tirion said:

this makes little to no sense to me

It really does, apparently that group decided to protest the game over a 3 week delay

21 minutes ago, Tirion said:

this makes little to no sense to me

Likely a mixture of buyers remorse, wanting to put the funds elsewhere, and a heap of salt.

To be honest, there are times I've thought about opting out of FFG. A lot of what they do isn't their best, and it shows.

I'm sure I've whined about it elsewhere but their treatment of the "secondary" games over their "chosen" titles really rubs me the wrong way. The handling of Armada over the last two years has really made me question if this company actually deserves my money. Especially when looking at the costs of multiple games. When I look at what I've spent on Legion and Armada there has to be a minimum of $4-5K there. Product alone, not even in time, accessories, paints, and so on. I've hosted nearly every local event. Heck, during the 2017 Regional events, I was the one who provided the Armada community with pictures of what was in the kit because they didn't even announce it until 2 to 3 weeks after they started. So yeah, I question why I keep giving these people my money often.

I think the answer is this.

For all of FFG's faults, from cheap poorly made OP support, their lack of communication with titles they don't care about, all the way to their inability to meet deadlines and abysmal reprinting policies, they make outstandingly "tight" games. (Maybe the key thing from the AMA today that got my attention. Their games are hella well designed.)

I don't know if it's a lack of infrastructure and command within the company, or whether this is yet another corporate entity that suffers from the "F-you, you'll buy it" mindset, but they definitely aren't bringing their A game to the business side of the company.

5 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Likely a mixture of buyers remorse, wanting to put the funds elsewhere, and a heap of salt.

To be honest, there are times I've thought about opting out of FFG. A lot of what they do isn't their best, and it shows.

I'm sure I've whined about it elsewhere but their treatment of the "secondary" games over their "chosen" titles really rubs me the wrong way. The handling of Armada over the last two years has really made me question if this company actually deserves my money. Especially when looking at the costs of multiple games. When I look at what I've spent on Legion and Armada there has to be a minimum of $4-5K there. Product alone, not even in time, accessories, paints, and so on. I've hosted nearly every local event. Heck, during the 2017 Regional events, I was the one who provided the Armada community with pictures of what was in the kit because they didn't even announce it until 2 to 3 weeks after they started. So yeah, I question why I keep giving these people my money often.

I think the answer is this.

For all of FFG's faults, from cheap poorly made OP support, their lack of communication with titles they don't care about, all the way to their inability to meet deadlines and abysmal reprinting policies, they make outstandingly "tight" games. (Maybe the key thing from the AMA today that got my attention. Their games are hella well designed.)

I don't know if it's a lack of infrastructure and command within the company, or whether this is yet another corporate entity that suffers from the "F-you, you'll buy it" mindset, but they definitely aren't bringing their A game to the business side of the company.

I thought you were working your way to another ban in the first half not gonna lie

32 minutes ago, Tirion said:

this makes little to no sense to me

It doesn't have to make sense to you, but it's happening and way more than people anticipated.

I assume it's a combination of loss of interest (hype is at it's lowest right now. We've waited several months since announcement. They then showed off the factions at Gencon. I don't think we've seen any CW related content in over a month), frustration due to delayed release (maybe they've decided that it's just not worth the hassle. Or maybe they expect future releases to be disorganized, so they don't want to bother with getting a game where they won't expect future units 6-7 months down the line).

Finances could be another issue. Maybe they only have a certain amount of money dedicated to their hobbies (It's how I limit myself from spending on hobbies). I make sure to only spend that amount of money a year. Maybe they became disinterested due to this release, and they want to purchase another hobby.