All artists so far have access to Mystic : Jim, Marie, Sefina, Lola. In Lovecraft's novels, artists always see what other's can't. I bet she'll have access to Mystic, probably Survivor 0-5, Mystic 0-2.

When I saw Mandy I told myself "wow, an investigator that can fish her deck for the right card, this is gonna be fun". And then comes Patrice ...

Cards that comes to my mind : Cornered, Improvised Weapon, Winging it, Gravedigger Shovel, Lantern, Eucatastrophe, Rise to the Occasion, Last Chance, Cherished Keepsake, Leather Coat, Madame Labranche, Take Heart, Trial by Fire, Fight or Flight, Yaotl

Mystic cards don't play into her style but if she have access to them she will not have the problem other mystics have : she will draw her spells pretty quickly.

Regarding her weakness, automatic evasion does not work because you don't technically succeed the evasion.

On ‎9‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 1:16 PM, Soakman said:

Nope not kidding. Great premise but I still am unsure they needed to hit her in the statline. But I feel similarly about Caroline. Patrice is versatile but you will have to constantly improvise and hope you have the right pips for the job.

And now?

Hey, I got to wondering over the weekend ('cause I drew it) what happens to Patricia (w/o Versatile) if she draws Drawing the Sign? Is she just handless until she spends 2 actions?

2 minutes ago, Duciris said:

Hey, I got to wondering over the weekend ('cause I drew it) what happens to Patricia (w/o Versatile) if she draws Drawing the Sign? Is she just handless until she spends 2 actions?

I would assume so. That being said who knows if she starts with a basic weakness at all.

51 minutes ago, Duciris said:

And now?

That seems pretty awful, honestly.

I also don’t feel like an ability is a good ability if you have to include cards just to get it off the ground. I’m sorry but yes Patrice can include cornered and now versatile to give her better options and more weakness downtime.....for like 4-8 xp! Maybe I don’t want to include xp cards just so I can play at baseline and have my 2 stats be usable and my deck not drown me in weaknesses.. lol.

1 hour ago, Soakman said:

I would assume so. That being said who knows if she starts with a basic weakness at all.

I'd assume she starts with one as usual; besides, she can always pick one up through campaign effects or standalone mode.

It would be nice if she had some back-text recognizing and mitigating her particular vulnerability to weaknesses (like " Special Deckbuilding Rule: Whenever you would search for a random basic weakness, search for an additional qualifying weakness and choose one to add to your deck").

24 minutes ago, Soakman said:

I also don’t feel like an ability is a good ability if you have to include cards just to get it off the ground. I’m sorry but yes Patrice can include cornered and now versatile to give her better options and more weakness downtime.....for like 4-8 xp!

Er, Versatile is 2 XP.

2 minutes ago, rsdockery said:

I'd assume she starts with one as usual; besides, she can always pick one up through campaign effects or standalone mode.

It would be nice if she had some back-text recognizing and mitigating her particular vulnerability to weaknesses (like " Special Deckbuilding Rule: Whenever you would search for a random basic weakness, search for an additional qualifying weakness and choose one to add to your deck").

Er, Versatile is 2 XP.

Right but 2 versatile or 2 cornered is 4 xp.

I guess you may only want 1 versatile or cornered as you’ll be cycling your deck more, but my point is still pretty much the same.

2 minutes ago, Soakman said:

Right but 2 versatile or 2 cornered is 4 xp.

She really only needs the one Cornered, since she tears through her deck fast enough to find it naturally.

16 minutes ago, rsdockery said:

She really only needs the one Cornered, since she tears through her deck fast enough to find it naturally.

I'd probably include two. Sure, she gets through her deck, but assuming she's got the standard 30 cards (not a guarantee, I think) it could show up anywhere from turns 1-6. Going 4 or 5 full rounds with those base stats will be rough.

7 minutes ago, Buhallin said:

I'd probably include two. Sure, she gets through her deck, but assuming she's got the standard 30 cards (not a guarantee, I think) it could show up anywhere from turns 1-6. Going 4 or 5 full rounds with those base stats will be rough.

I suppose I should preface all my thoughts on Patrice with the note that I'm fairly confident she's going to be a Mystic sub (or at least have some significant access to Spells), and will therefore be able to use Willpower in place of her terrible other stats. If she doesn't get that, then yeah, 2x Cornered is probably necessary to pull her out of Lola-tier.

Problably Events/skills only, like Tony

As another (possibly spoiler-y but minor) thought, how crazy would you have to be to run Patrice in Forgotten Age?

7 minutes ago, Buhallin said:

As another (possibly spoiler-y but minor) thought, how crazy would you have to be to run Patrice in Forgotten Age?

I'm not sure what part you're thinking about. If it involves Yithians, remember

9 minutes ago, Soakman said:

I'm not sure what part you're thinking about. If it involves Yithians, remember

she wouldn't have her ability as her investigator card would be replaced with the Yithian one. Having gone through it with Calvin, and being stuck as one for good, he was probably set up better than most would be. He was running rise to the occasions and cornereds already.

Ah, yeah, good point, forgot that. May still hit her harder than most though since her deck is likely heavily built around her ability.

On 9/9/2019 at 1:57 PM, Buhallin said:

That seems pretty awful, honestly.

Agreed.

Plus, I'm a bit confused how it even works... I assume since it increases your deck size, you would need to immediately need to add the five extra cards to your deck to remain legal. Since these are cards being added between scenarios, would this mean you'd still have to spend XP to add lvl 0 cards? In which case, you'd have to actually save up a *minimum* of 7 xp to even add this permanent to your deck?

8 minutes ago, KBlumhardt said:

Agreed.

Plus, I'm a bit confused how it even works... I assume since it increases your deck size, you would need to immediately need to add the five extra cards to your deck to remain legal. Since these are cards being added between scenarios, would this mean you'd still have to spend XP to add lvl 0 cards? In which case, you'd have to actually save up a *minimum* of 7 xp to even add this permanent to your deck?

Yeah. I think a lot of people are assuming it will work like Exile, where you can replace cards to fill your deck side without paying XP. But as far as I know there's not actually anything in the rules to cover that - the Exile refill is explicitly for when you're replacing an Exiled card.

19 minutes ago, Buhallin said:

Yeah. I think a lot of people are assuming it will work like Exile, where you can replace cards to fill your deck side without paying XP. But as far as I know there's not actually anything in the rules to cover that - the Exile refill is explicitly for when you're replacing an Exiled card.

This feels very similar to the "fight" over how Multi-Class cards worked. Personally, I think the most logical way to do it is for them to not have the XP cost for adding new cards to your deck. Otherwise, almost no one would EVER take Versatile. And I assume they want people to take the card.

Either way I look forward to a clarification to how exactly the XP costing works on this card.

Edit: After a little more thought another parallel might be when you lost cards in Blood on the Alter. Your deck size decreased from 30 to 28 so you got new level zero cards to refill up to 30.

2 minutes ago, Buhallin said:

Yeah. I think a lot of people are assuming it will work like Exile, where you can replace cards to fill your deck side without paying XP. But as far as I know there's not actually anything in the rules to cover that - the Exile refill is explicitly for when you're replacing an Exiled card.

The assumption seems to be covered by the Exile rule - I check to see if my deck fulfills my deck building requirements and add cards until it does.

Just to counterpoint, does assuming it doesn't work that way mean it costs 30 exp to have a basic lvl 0 starting deck for most investigators?

If so, I've been playing standalone way wrong.

25 minutes ago, Iuchi Toshimo said:

The assumption seems to be covered by the Exile rule - I check to see if my deck fulfills my deck building requirements and add cards until it does.

Just to counterpoint, does assuming it doesn't work that way mean it costs 30 exp to have a basic lvl 0 starting deck for most investigators?

If so, I've been playing standalone way wrong.

No, because building a starting deck (and the fact that it can only consist of 0-exp cards unless you're Father Mateo etc.) is covered by the rules for Deckbuilding:

Quote

A player's investigator deck must include the exact number of player cards indicated on the back of his or her investigator card as the "Deck Size."

[...]

Most investigators have 0 experience to spend at the beginning of a campaign, which means that they may only include level 0 cards in their decks.

and the rules for how exp is calculated specifically for a standalone deck indicate that you explicitly only consider the exp cost of higher-level cards:

Quote

When building a deck for a standalone game, an investigator may use higher level cards in his or her deck (so long as they observe the deckbuilding restrictions of the investigator) by counting the total experience of all the higher level cards used in the deck , and taking additional random basic weaknesses based on the following table

(emphasis mine).

Because of the way these rules are worded - respectively, that they specifically refer to creating a custom deck when starting a campaign, and that you explicitly only consider higher-level cards for exp in standalone - you cannot directly extrapolate that these apply to a card effect increasing your deck size midway through a campaign.

Indeed, the rules for campaign play, as they are now, seem to imply the opposite (or to a particularly boneheaded reading, that the card doesn't actually do anything at all):

Quote

An investigator's deckbuilding guidelines (found on the back of the investigator card) must be observed while that investigator is purchasing new cards. Only cards the investigator has access to may be purchased. The deck-size requirement must also be maintained , so that for each (nonpermanent) card purchased and added to a deck, a different card is removed from the deck.

[...]

Each card costs experience equal to the card's level, to a minimum of 1 ( purchasing a level zero card still costs 1 experience ). The number of pips beneath a card's cost indicates the card's level.

But that's just pedantry on my part; all of this is merely to point out that the rules as they stand are simply not equipped to adjudicate the eventuality of an investigator's deck-size increasing midway through a campaign one way or another. That said, I am 100% certain that Versatile will allow you to fill up the new slots with level 0 cards at no additional exp cost (it's what makes the most sense and has similar precedent, as you say, with Exile ), it's just that the existing rules don't cover it at all.

It's still a bad card though.

The side effects from that one Dunwich scenario was ruled the same as Exile. Whenever being short on cards has been possible, Level 0 cards have been free.

The value of the card is being hashed out extensively on BGG. Most decks don't want it, but some do. For example, I'm thinking I might take it in my Doomed Carolyn deck, to pad the deck and to let me add some level 0 scrying at no extra charge. It gives Patrice an extra turn before running out of deck.

Also, I just learned that it allows Wendy's Amulet and Premonition to combo for permanent, free, perfect knowledge on everyone's skill test. So expect that to change.

Drawn to the Flame demystified the new Myriad rule today. It is very germane to the discussion of Patrice and, arguably, Versatile.

Let me help you out:

"An investigator may include up to three copies of a player card with the myriad keyword in their deck (by title), instead of the normal limit of two copies. Additionally, when you purchase a myriad card for your deck, you may purchase up to two additional copies of that card (at the same level) at no experience cost."

You can hear us talk about it (and a card from The Dream-Eaters we were sent to announce) here: https://drawntotheflamepodcast.blogspot.com/2019/09/episode-136-visions-of-futures-past-xiii.html