i mean, they already have images for cards with errata changes in the RRG. Why cant they just add some in there for the points changes. then if you dont want to print them off, print them off, if you do, then go ahead. I personally would love to be able to. Or better yet do a different PDF and stick it in the "Tournament Resources" file on the website. I mean, they are already doing it for half the cards that are adjusted. And as far as X-wing I dont know what was going on with that but plenty of other minis games provide you with a PDF of updated cards that players can print, Warmachine, Malifaux, Wild West Exodus, Eden and those are all companies with less resources than FFG. Just give me a place where I can download the PDF and have the cards with tournament points on them. Especially since I have to already to it with Errata cards. Give me less stuff to have to cross reference. And the comment made on the live stream of "War gamers are used to looking at points" is just ridiculous. FFG can and should be better at providing players with easy to use resources.

9 hours ago, Skaroreg said:

i do both. Even when using a list builder. It is far more real to have everything in front of me. they just made it more difficult because I have to have a chart as well.

You’re posting online, so you clearly have the ability to open and read the very short list on the PDF; this is a non issue.

I have always preferred the pen and paper approach.

I think they are trying to avoid the whole, now all my cards are useless thing.

better way to do it would be to sell a card pack that covers all of the units and such that are already out and replace the cards in all the new poducts coming out. Possibly even just go to the living list as they do with x wing. As they are now, they can make images of the cards who like to have an actual card but dont want to have to rebuy them. That way players could go that route as well.

Sounds like it is time for...A CODEX !

When all the rules and point costs settle, I would buy a leather bound tome listing all the point costs, unit statistics, artwork...even fluff...

At some point I would be happy to play against those who have a correctly costed army without all their cards present on the table as long as unit bookkeeping methods were obvious without the cards...as long as I had access to their army list.

5 hours ago, GhengisharnIV said:

Sounds like it is time for...A CODEX !

When all the rules and point costs settle, I would buy a leather bound tome listing all the point costs, unit statistics, artwork...even fluff...

At some point I would be happy to play against those who have a correctly costed army without all their cards present on the table as long as unit bookkeeping methods were obvious without the cards...as long as I had access to their army list.

From a Warhammer player: you DON'T want a codex. Free PDF with updated rules and cards for units are miles/kilometers better than books you have to pay for and will be outdated in a bunch of years.

1 hour ago, Vector Strike said:

From a Warhammer player: you DON'T want a codex. Free PDF with updated rules and cards for units are miles/kilometers better than books you have to pay for and will be outdated in a bunch of years.

I can store it on my phone!

3 hours ago, Vector Strike said:

From a Warhammer player: you DON'T want a codex. Free PDF with updated rules and cards for units are miles/kilometers better than books you have to pay for and will be outdated in a bunch of years.

Back in *my* day all you needed was a White Dwarf subscription, scissors, a glue stick, and most importantly a willingness to mangle both magazines and codices.

Does anyone else find it funny that this incredibly creative and resourceful game community capable of modifying miniatures and creating incredibly detailed custom terrain would consider outdated point values on the physical cards to be an insurmountable obstacle to army building and their general game satisfaction?

Card sleeves, sharpie, and optional sticker to cover the currently printed points value.

Or, if you aren't playing competitively, just use the old points values if it bothers you that much.

You can tell the veteran (GW) wargamers and the veteran FFG players with this issue.

1 hour ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Card sleeves, sharpie, and optional sticker to cover the currently printed points value.

Or, if you aren't playing competitively, just use the old points values if it bothers you that much.

One of each stat card on the table, list on my iphone. Or, list on a paper printout from Tabletop Admiral, if Battlescribe doesn't decide to include these points changes.

Creatively dealing with points-changes is nothing compared to painting an 800 point force. Graphic design hobbyists produce pro-looking stat cards for homebrew units. Soon I predict printable "current" points valued cards will be potatoshopped and put up by fans.

Changing the points on the actual cards will lead to chaos and despair. When they change again. And again. And then change it BACK. "Which year's card is that?". No. Thank you.

6 hours ago, Vector Strike said:

From a Warhammer player: you DON'T want a codex. Free PDF with updated rules and cards for units are miles/kilometers better than books you have to pay for and will be outdated in a bunch of years.

I miss 3rd/6th edition codices/army books. They were cheap, and alongside the 'Eavy Metal stuff they showed hobby projects actual mortals could achieve.

I wish they would just leave off the points on the card at this point. If they were to reprint, it could change again next year and the silliness of calling for different points for "casual" vs tournament.

1 hour ago, Cusm said:

I wish they would just leave off the points on the card at this point. If they were to reprint, it could change again next year and the silliness of calling for different points for "casual" vs tournament.

But then we're back to "if you don't have the pdf, you can't play with this product at all". I'd rather not. Having played my first games of Legion in a vacation cabin with sucky internet, even the rules reference guide made things pretty bad.

34 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

But then we're back to "if you don't have the pdf, you can't play with this product at all". I'd rather not. Having played my first games of Legion in a vacation cabin with sucky internet, even the rules reference guide made things pretty bad.

Ever heard of the term ‘corner case’? Cuz I haven’t heard of many tournaments being held in a backwoods cabin.

My overall take from this thread: There are a bunch of different self directed solutions to deploying this errata - pick one that works for you and go with it. All except the whinging one; that seems ineffective at the present time.

On 9/5/2019 at 10:17 AM, Caimheul1313 said:

Or just sleeve your cards and write the new point total on the sleeve with sharpie/apply a sticker. That's what Warmahordes players have been doing for a while now to deal with the same issue.

It'd sure be nice if FFG would have up-to-date versions of the cards in ready-to-print PDF files, like Warmahordes and Guild Ball do...

Look, it's not too hard, but FFG isn't doing wicked basic stuff that pretty much every game company does. FFG seems unique in a bad way with the importance they put the cards, while also refusing to make accurate versions available to players.

Again, just having versions folks can print at home is enough, as well as making sure subsequent printings of expansions don't use old, out-dated, and wrong information.

9 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Look, it's not too hard, but FFG isn't doing wicked basic stuff that pretty much every game company does. FFG seems unique in a bad way with the importance they put the cards, while also refusing to make accurate versions available to players.

1,000,000 times this.

2 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

But then we're back to "if you don't have the pdf, you can't play with this product at all". I'd rather not. Having played my first games of Legion in a vacation cabin with sucky internet, even the rules reference guide made things pretty bad.

X-Wing does well without points on cards nor needing any type of printed rule with the players.

2 hours ago, Kwatchi said:

My overall take from this thread: There are a bunch of different self directed solutions to deploying this errata - pick one that works for you and go with it. All except the whinging one; that seems ineffective at the present time.

Nor would it be solved by pointsless-cards. That won't magically allow the people who want to look at their cards for army builds do their thing. I'm not whining, I LIKE the present state of affairs.

Tournaments aren't held in backwoods cabins, but, these are the tournament points pdf's we're talking about. Not casual play.

1 hour ago, Vector Strike said:

X-Wing does well without points on cards nor needing any type of printed rule with the players.

Now. But the online points are new, and post-Legion I believe, and part of a total reboot of a game that was several years old. Doing that to a game after the first year would be a bit crazy. I dislike like X-Wing so I may be wrong on the particulars. And 40k does very well with an approach I hope Legion never touches with a 10 foot pole. So the "X does well doing Y" argument is always overshadowed by that games many issues.

@Cusm
"I wish they would just leave off the points on the card at this point. If they were to reprint, it could change again next year and the silliness of calling for different points for "casual" vs tournament"

Look, I empathize to a degree, but the distinction between Casual and Competitive is quite plain:

A casual player should be able to dig the box out, and put together an army on the fly to play on a whim. That means point values on the cards is the easiest method for them.

A tournament player is someone willing and able to carve out up to two days and play for, potentially 16+ hours. They have the time and wherewithal to check a PDF list against that army list in advance for such a relatively huge time commitment.

15 minutes ago, Derrault said:

@Cusm
"I wish they would just leave off the points on the card at this point. If they were to reprint, it could change again next year and the silliness of calling for different points for "casual" vs tournament"

Look, I empathize to a degree, but the distinction between Casual and Competitive is quite plain:

A casual player should be able to dig the box out, and put together an army on the fly to play on a whim. That means point values on the cards is the easiest method for them.

The alternative would be something like X-wing's quick build cards, but I don't think those mesh as well with Legion. The Specialists expansion would be particularly awkward.

FFG as a matter of SOP changes text on cards for many of their games. They also tend to not realize that their print on demand and quarterly kits is a great way to get corrected cards to the players. Instead they put out full art cards with star wars text NO ONE CAN READ.

Yeah, it is frustrating and executed poorly. The alternative is for them to do nothing, which is even worse.

2 hours ago, Squark said:

The alternative would be something like X-wing's quick build cards, but I don't think those mesh as well with Legion. The Specialists expansion would be particularly awkward.

Yeah too many combination factors for quick build cards

10 hours ago, Vector Strike said:

X-Wing does well without points on cards nor needing any type of printed rule with the players.

And they've stated in a few interviews that the it upkeep for their IT support currently is more costly than anticipated and something they won't be repeating.