I had a situation arise in a recent game as follows:

My opponent overlapped a set of Buzz Droids with a Z-95 at Initiative 2, and I relocated the swarm to its rear guards. Shortly thereafter, two more ships overlapped the same swarm, at Initiative 4 and 6 (they'd been blocked by the Z-95's move and so bumped). My question is this - do the Buzz Droids stay attached to the Z-95, or relocate to the next (and then the next) ship to overlap them? In this case, they would have relocated first to the Init. 4 pilot, removing them from the path of the Init. 6 pilot as per the relocate to the overlapping ship's front or rear guards. I kept them attached to the Z-95, but I was unsure as to whether that was legal as per the device's relocation rules. As a result, all three ships took damage at Init. 0.

How should this have been played, rules peeps (card attached for reference)?

The rules for Buzz Droids do not make special considerations for “once per round”, so they reposition every time a ship overlaps them.

So, the droids should have relocated to the next ship to overlap. And, then the next. Depending on how everything bumped, the droids would have ended up on the rear guides of the i6, as the droids cannot be relocated into an overlap. If that was not possible, the droids and the i6 would have suffered one damage.

(Rules Reference 1.0.4 page 23)

I'm no rules expert but if Buzz Droids relocate after every overlap surely the "each enemy ship at range 0" becomes meaningless as there would only every be one ship a range 0?

Interested in the outcome of this as a dedicated CIS player as I have interpreted it differently.

1 hour ago, Mullaner said:

I'm no rules expert but if Buzz Droids relocate after every overlap surely the "each enemy ship at range 0" becomes meaningless as there would only every be one ship a range 0?

Interested in the outcome of this as a dedicated CIS player as I have interpreted it differently.

It's probably worded that way to cover this situation

Quote

A ship is at range 0 of another ship if it is physically touching another ship.

Although rare, it is possible for a ship to move in such a way that it is at range 0 of another ship (in physical contact with it) without having overlapped it.

In case people argue over these rare situations.

'each enemy ship at range 0' can also mean 'the enemy ship at range 0' and would be the more standard templating. The fact that it doesn't usually matter that it could affect multiple ships doesn't matter.

I suppose the CIS player could take advantage of the "wiggle room" for placing the token, if a ship was VERY CLOSE to overlapping on one (or another) arc, to relocate the buzz droid token where it was locked into one ship's guides, and JUST kissing another ship's base, declaring it to be in the rare "Range 0 without overlapping" state, and getting a two-fer-one on their buzz droid damage. It would, admittedly, take a lucky break (for the CIS player) that the enemy ships just HAPPEN to put themselves into that position.

21 hours ago, Mullaner said:

I'm no rules expert but if Buzz Droids relocate after every overlap surely the "each enemy ship at range 0" becomes meaningless as there would only every be one ship a range 0?

Interested in the outcome of this as a dedicated CIS player as I have interpreted it differently.

It's actually possible for more than one ship to be at Range 0 of the droids - but not necessarily on the first turn that they get stuck to a ship. Movement in Initiative order, even with the relocate, can allow the droids to hit multiple ships based on positioning and blocking with low-initiative Vulture spam. The trick is to clog up your opponent's movement options.

Also, there's Tractor Beam - which will become even more devastating with the addition of the Nantex in a few days.

@Lyianx , thanks for pointing out the rules reference on Range 0 + overlapping.

9 hours ago, feltipern1 said:

Also, there's Tractor Beam - which will become even more devastating with the addition of the Nantex in a few days.

I think Boost/Rolling an enemy ship onto a Buzz Droid Token would just trigger ANOTHER reposition of the token, actually. The reposition happens whenever an enemy ship moves through or overlaps, and those happen during tractor moves.

17 hours ago, emeraldbeacon said:

I think Boost/Rolling an enemy ship onto a Buzz Droid Token would just trigger ANOTHER reposition of the token, actually. The reposition happens whenever an enemy ship moves through or overlaps, and those happen during tractor moves.

It surely will, I agree - but it's possible that that overlap may lead to further problems.

On 9/12/2019 at 9:42 AM, feltipern1 said:

It surely will, I agree - but it's possible that that overlap may lead to further problems.

Unfortunately every overlap (no matter how) causes the droids to relocate. Against a swarm they will relocate all the way to the back of the swarm (or detonate on a middle ship when they can't be placed due to overlap).

If FFG errata'ed the relocate to be 'once per turn' they would be much more useful. Currently it is impossible for them to be range 0 of more than one ship.

1 minute ago, AngryAlbatross said:

Unfortunately every overlap (no matter how) causes the droids to relocate. Against a swarm they will relocate all the way to the back of the swarm (or detonate on a middle ship when they can't be placed due to overlap).

If FFG errata'ed the relocate to be 'once per turn' they would be much more useful. Currently it is impossible for them to be range 0 of more than one ship.

Its not 'impossible', just incredibly unlikely.

@Lyianx indeed! After checking the rules reference you are correct.

Still extremely unlikely lol

1 hour ago, Lyianx said:

Its not 'impossible', just incredibly unlikely.

Just use your "advantage templates" with wiggle-room, and use your Nantex Ensnare talent to tractor-boost the enemy, and NUDGE them to one side until they're JUST kissing the edge of the droids...?

12 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

Just use your "advantage templates" with wiggle-room,

what.. like the default cardboard ones in the core box? cause they defiantly have wiggle room.

28 minutes ago, Lyianx said:

what.. like the default cardboard ones in the core box? cause they defiantly have wiggle room.

Cardboard templates have some natural variance in them, which means some are more snug than others. Most third party acrylic templates have fairly tight tolerances, and fit snugly against bases. When most players refer to "advantage templates," though, they often mean Official FFG Prize Support templates. These acrylics often are a bit narrower than standard templates, which lets players fudge their maneuvers JUST a bit to the left and right. While we're only talking about 1-2mm of space, this is sometimes enough to barely miss an obstacle or enemy ship, where a traditional template would result in an overlap.

(This is one of the reasons for the FFG tournament rule permitting players to request that only set of maneuver templates be used in a match, so neither player has an unfair advantage over another. Either both players get "advantage templates" for the round, or neither does.)

28 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

Cardboard templates have some natural variance in them, which means some are more snug than others. Most third party acrylic templates have fairly tight tolerances, and fit snugly against bases. When most players refer to "advantage templates," though, they often mean Official FFG Prize Support templates. These acrylics often are a bit narrower than standard templates, which lets players fudge their maneuvers JUST a bit to the left and right. While we're only talking about 1-2mm of space, this is sometimes enough to barely miss an obstacle or enemy ship, where a traditional template would result in an overlap.

(This is one of the reasons for the FFG tournament rule permitting players to request that only set of maneuver templates be used in a match, so neither player has an unfair advantage over another. Either both players get "advantage templates" for the round, or neither does.)

Ah.. yeah. i don't have FFG acrylic maneuver templates.. just range rulers. I don't typically compete at that level.

4 hours ago, AngryAlbatross said:

Unfortunately every overlap (no matter how) causes the droids to relocate. Against a swarm they will relocate all the way to the back of the swarm (or detonate on a middle ship when they can't be placed due to overlap).

If FFG errata'ed the relocate to be 'once per turn' they would be much more useful. Currently it is impossible for them to be range 0 of more than one ship.

Not entirely. The Buzz token can be placed either front or back guides. If that happens to be under a ship, that puts that ship at range 0 of the token and the overlapped ship is, of course, at range 0 already. Remember, if a ship has moved already, a Buzz Swarm token doesn't move if it overlaps a ship, only if a ship overlaps it.

17 minutes ago, Sergovan said:

Not entirely. The Buzz token can be placed either front or back guides. If that happens to be under a ship, that puts that ship at range 0 of the token and the overlapped ship is, of course, at range 0 already. Remember, if a ship has moved already, a Buzz Swarm token doesn't move if it overlaps a ship, only if a ship overlaps it.

Damage for all ships at Range 0 is only for the Engagement Phase and only when the Buzz Droids are engaging. If the Buzz Droids cannot be placed during any Phase (usually the Activation Phase, but tractoring is also a thing), only the droids and the enemy ship that overlapped or moved through the droids suffer 1 damage. And Remember that Buzz droids can't be placed overlapping an object, including other ships, so if you try to place them and they would overlap anything, they can't be placed and are destroyed and only the ship that actually moved over the droids is damaged.

6 hours ago, AngryAlbatross said:

@Lyianx indeed! After checking the rules reference you are correct.

Still extremely unlikely lol

There is actually a way for this to occur, that is less impossible. The buzz droids can't be placed overlapping an object after a ship moves over them... but they *can* be placed overlapping an object when they are first deployed. So it is possible to have multiple ships at range 0 of it when you launch them. Its still difficult to pull off, but it is possible.

3 minutes ago, Lyianx said:

There is actually a way for this to occur, that is less impossible. The buzz droids can't be placed overlapping an object after a ship moves over them... but they *can* be placed overlapping an object when they are first deployed. So it is possible to have multiple ships at range 0 of it when you launch them. Its still difficult to pull off, but it is possible.

Not exactly. If they are placed overlapping an enemy ship, that ship triggers the overlapping effect of their ability forcing a relocate on the part of the Buzz Droids (per the update to the rules for overlap, "After an object is placed, if it is placed underneath one or more ships, those ships resolve any effects of overlapping the object.". They can be placed overlapping an obstacle or other device when they are first launched though.

3 hours ago, Nspace said:

Damage for all ships at Range 0 is only for the Engagement Phase and only when the Buzz Droids are engaging. If the Buzz Droids cannot be placed during any Phase (usually the Activation Phase, but tractoring is also a thing), only the droids and the enemy ship that overlapped or moved through the droids suffer 1 damage. And Remember that Buzz droids can't be placed overlapping an object , including other ships , so if you try to place them and they would overlap anything, they can't be placed and are destroyed and only the ship that actually moved over the droids is damaged.

I reread it twice and I still thought it said "obstacles" and not "objects". Uggh, that would make sense.

4 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Not exactly. If they are placed overlapping an enemy ship, that ship triggers the overlapping effect of their ability forcing a relocate on the part of the Buzz Droids (per the update to the rules for overlap, "After an object is placed, if it is placed underneath one or more ships, those ships resolve any effects of overlapping the object.". They can be placed overlapping an obstacle or other device when they are first launched though.

That ruling was made specifically for Loose Cargo and Spare Parts, not any object. And moving the buzz droids isnt the ship "suffering its effects". So i dont really agree with that.

34 minutes ago, Lyianx said:

That ruling was made specifically for Loose Cargo and Spare Parts, not any object. And moving the buzz droids isnt the ship "suffering its effects". So i dont really agree with that.

It isn't a "ruling". That is a direct quote from page 14 of the current Rules Reference (v105). The full Overlap section (with the pertinent part bolded, it was added this version):

"OVERLAP
While a ship executes a maneuver or otherwise moves, it overlaps an object
if the ship’s final position would physically be on top of an object.
A ship fully executes a maneuver if it does not overlap a ship. If a ship
executes a maneuver and overlaps a ship, it must partially execute that
maneuver by performing the following steps:
1. Move the ship backward along the template until it is no longer on top of
any other ships. While doing so, adjust the position of the ship so that the
hashmarks in the middle of both sets of guides remains centered over the
line down the middle of the template.
2. Once the ship is no longer on top of any other ship, place it so that it is
touching the last ship it backed over. This may result in the ship returning
to its starting position.

3. The ship skips its Perform Action step.
• Even though a ship that partially executes a maneuver must skip its
Perform Action step, it can still perform actions granted from other game
effects.
• Even if a ship partially executes a maneuver, it is still treated as having
executed a maneuver of the indicated speed, bearing, and difficulty.
Additionally:
• After an object is placed, if it is placed underneath one or more ships,
those ships resolve any effects of overlapping the object. "

Do I need to quote the game definition of what an "object" is as well or will just pointing you to page 13 suffice?

The wording still doesn't quite match what you are suggesting (as its not the ship resolving the overlap effect), but i see where you are coming from.