Have you heard the tragedy of Darth Blackout the i5? I thought not. It's not a story the Jedi would tell you. It's a First Order legend. Darth Blackout was an ace of the silencer, so powerful and so wise he could use Fanatical to influence the dice to create hits... He had such a knowledge of the dice that he could even take Optics and use his focus to keep the blanks he cared about from dying. The non-Force side of the ace is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful... the only thing he was afraid of was not having Force points, which, of course, he didn't. Unfortunately, he taught Kylo everything he knew, then his opponent killed him while he tried to run. It's ironic - he could save attack dice from death, but not defense dice.

So Blackout. Several points cheaper than Kylo, an ability that sometimes does stuff, and better attack dice mods if you take Fanatical/Optics (whatever you do, don't take trickshot please, itsatrap.gif). The only downside is that he doesn't have Force to use on defense, but he can still choose to save a focus... I've been trying to convince people of his effectiveness for a long time but I think Duncan Howard using him instead of Kylo at NOVA is going to do more than anything I can do to serve as "proof" that he's at least decent. Does anyone have any thoughts on Blackout? Lists that are possible with him that just aren't with Kylo? Good stories with him?

Unless you fly towards obstacles and jump thru loops to make that possible with extra actions, his ability seems a bit dead.

Losing force worth savin 13 points or a Proton Torp equivalent? eh.

I'd be tempted to burn the additional 4 points on Outmaneuver for them for the occasional Focus backed "What green dice?"

2 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

I'd be tempted to burn the additional 4 points on Outmaneuver for them for the occasional Focus backed "What green dice?"

This assumes those green dice weren't going to blank out, which I why nobody cares about denying green dice

24 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

This assumes those green dice weren't going to blank out, which I why nobody cares about denying green dice

Which is more consistent, 37.5% chance per die rolled of a blank or that die not being rolled on the first place? Pre-roll die removal effects operate as an anti-Focus by in effect turning the only possible results of that die into blanks. Actually a bit stronger since the die is never rolled.

My favorite versions of blackout involve lone wolf. Those 5 pts completely change how he plays and how useful he is during early mid and end game. Doesnt make it any more predictable, you dont have to blindly chase lone wolf ranges for it to be useful. Biggest problem is it conflicts with the main reason to take blackout...room for more bid. Add optics at 72 and you are close enough to Kylo to just take Kylo. But it is brutally effective on offense and defense with clouds and biohex coordinates.

Blackout + Quickdraw + Backdraft + Scorch is the only list I have tested seriously without Kylo as one of the wingmen. Other variants being Kylo + Blackout + Starkiller or Quickdraw.

In my experience with him (around 30 games in a couple different lists), Blackout's ability triggers every now and then but isn't really something you play for, just something that happens. Gas clouds are good with him though - spend your focus on offense, punch through damage, have autothrusters and tons of dice for defense

I think blackout is great but in any list where you are making room for a i5 silencer, it’s probably worth giving up more points to have kylo.

as a big QuickDraw fan I love the idea of putting afterburners and all the toys on him...but I always just make the sacrifice to have kylo

The only thing that would make me bring blackout is if I already have kylo...and I just have not made a squad I like yet with both

I ran a Kylo/QD/Blackout list for a while, and I started keeping track of situations where Fanatical could trigger and situations where Trick Shot could trigger. Trick Shot was somewhere between 1.5 to 2 times more likely to trigger than Fanatical, at least how I played him. It also triggered earlier in the game, which was significant. It's not as much of a trap as I thought initially, but it did go up 2 points (net 1 point on Blackout).

I'd say the main thing in considering a Blackout list is figuring put what fits with Kylo and a Blackout build you like. You have 50 something points.

2 hours ago, Biophysical said:

I'd say the main thing in considering a Blackout list is figuring put what fits with Kylo and a Blackout build you like. You have 50 something points.

What about nothing?

Kylo+ SNR + primed thrusters + prockets = 116 points

blackout + outmaneuver + primed thrusters = 78 points

total = 194 points

could always drop Prockets which puts the bid at 187.

18 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

What about nothing?

Kylo+ SNR + primed thrusters + prockets = 116 points

blackout + outmaneuver + primed thrusters = 78 points

total = 194 points

could always drop Prockets which puts the bid at 187.

I just feel like Quickdraw would do the job better. Not quite as nimble, but he's a piece you can trade for your opponent's Init 6, and then you'll be able to SNR Kylo the rest of the match.

6 hours ago, Kieransi said:

Does anyone have any thoughts on Blackout? Lists that are possible with him that just aren't with Kylo? Good stories with him?

Had a decent game with Blackout, 2x Omega SF, 2x Omega FO, all with Fanatical. Nothing too fancy, just straightforward FO efficiency. I suppose the whole squad also would work with Kylo, but with non-Talent Init 2s instead of Talent 3s.

Blackout kind of makes the case for Trick Shot getting variable pricing. Fixed front arc? 2 points. Full arc like a YV-666 or Auzituck? 3 points. Any turret arcs? 4 points... But then again, kind of a nightmare, since Turret upgrades wouldn't be counted, since only base and not upgraded stats count for variable pricing. But I stink at engineering obstructed shots, so Trick Shot Blackout just feels like a cool, rare "big play" that's a sweet thing when it happens, but probably doesn't.

Blackout feels fine, I guess. Saving the 13 points compared to Kylo might make a better list (Tavson and bid and Afterburners on Quickdraw are all good things), under the right circumstances.

1 hour ago, FlyingAnchors said:

What about nothing?

Kylo+ SNR + primed thrusters + prockets = 116 points

blackout + outmaneuver + primed thrusters = 78 points

total = 194 points

could always drop Prockets which puts the bid at 187.

I have a hard time believing in 2 ship lists.

Blackout/QD/Scorch/Null has generally treated me well.

28 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I have a hard time believing in 2 ship lists.

Scrolling through meta-wing, this disbelief is pretty justified...

2 hours ago, Biophysical said:

I have a hard time believing in 2 ship lists.

I have a hard time believing in Kylo and blackout in the same list (for now anyway). Here’s why:

The 2 barebones clock in at 139 points, that leaves you 61 points to play with, probably a little less if you want a bid. This leaves you with the following options:

2 cheap FOs

1 named FO, maybe 1 cheap FO

starkiller base pilot

Any of the SF’s, but not fully kitted like normal unless you drop to the Ps 3, and then you’re trading initiative, which is kind of bad for an SF because they love to draw fire first. You could do QD with Sfgunner, and then either fcs and fanatical OR Advanced optics, but not both.

Recoil, or any of the other silencer pilots (I like the idea of 3 silencers, not sure its good enough to go anywhere though)

Vonreg??? (If he’s under 61 points and doesn’t need an upgrade stapled to him maybe an option in the future).

You could maybe do something with the SBP, but it’s not Tavson, so I’m wary. (I’m convinced that 2 together works because no one wants to take on 8 dice at once as long as they can keep their arcs in formation with one another).

A local player has been flying silencers a lot.

He tried fully loaded Blackout and Kylo, but gave them up because they were too swingy on the dice. He won around 50% of his matches.

However, switching to triple silencers has made all the difference: Blackout plus 2 FO Test Pilots, all with Fanatical and Advanced Optics. He's unbeaten locally with them, taken them to 3 tournaments so far, and only lost to top players. Came top 8 at a Hyperspace Trial, top 4 at the Ready Room Tournament, won a small local event.

10 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

I have a hard time believing in Kylo and blackout in the same list (for now anyway). Here’s why:

The 2 barebones clock in at 139 points, that leaves you 61 points to play with, probably a little less if you want a bid. This leaves you with the following options:

2 cheap FOs

1 named FO, maybe 1 cheap FO

starkiller base pilot

Any of the SF’s, but not fully kitted like normal unless you drop to the Ps 3, and then you’re trading initiative, which is kind of bad for an SF because they love to draw fire first. You could do QD with Sfgunner, and then either fcs and fanatical OR Advanced optics, but not both.

Recoil, or any of the other silencer pilots (I like the idea of 3 silencers, not sure its good enough to go anywhere though)

Vonreg??? (If he’s under 61 points and doesn’t need an upgrade stapled to him maybe an option in the future).

You could maybe do something with the SBP, but it’s not Tavson, so I’m wary. (I’m convinced that 2 together works because no one wants to take on 8 dice at once as long as they can keep their arcs in formation with one another).

I recently played in the Australian System Open, (31/08-01/09), with Kylo, Blackout and Scorch. All with optics, Perception and Fanatical for talents, comes in at 192.

I went 5/1 and finished in the top 25 out of 280ish. The only ship I had an issue with was Scorch, sometimes he was great, sometimes he wasn't so great, but the Silencers were generally good all around, with one getting the job done if the other was focused.

I am looking forward to Rush and Vonregs TIE to spice it up a bit.

3 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

I recently played in the Australian System Open, (31/08-01/09), with Kylo, Blackout and Scorch. All with optics, Perception and Fanatical for talents, comes in at 192.

I went 5/1 and finished in the top 25 out of 280ish. The only ship I had an issue with was Scorch, sometimes he was great, sometimes he wasn't so great, but the Silencers were generally good all around, with one getting the job done. I am looking forward to Rush and Vonregs TIE to spice it up a bit.

Cool! I've done Kylo/Blackout/Quickdraw, but not super seriously. I've never been satisfied with Quickdraw, though, but it seems like something good can be there. The new red TIE is just more options for that point range.

11 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

What about nothing?

Kylo+ SNR + primed thrusters + prockets = 116 points

blackout + outmaneuver + primed thrusters = 78 points

total = 194 points

could always drop Prockets which puts the bid at 187.

Love the idea, but I'm thinking it's missing that expendable GSTrooper to offer those early game "mistake decisions".

4 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Cool! I've done Kylo/Blackout/Quickdraw, but not super seriously. I've never been satisfied with Quickdraw, though, but it seems like something good can be there. The new red TIE is just more options for that point range.

I tried a Concussion/Optics equipped Zeta Survivor, but I found out I hate flying SF’s. It’s the same issue I had with Scorch, extremely limited second manoeuvring.

Fly Casual has Vonreg up now, is guestimated at 55 points, which is in the ball park, Wedge is 55? So hopefully is right. I can fit 2 Fanatical/optics Test Pilots with Vonreg for 200. Atm my Vonreg has Outmanoeuvre, optics and Hull upgrade. I don’t normally go for Hull/shield upgrades, but 2 Hull is just so risky. Will probably drop it back to Crack Shot or predator. Might change optics to analyser too.

2 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

I tried a Concussion/Optics equipped Zeta Survivor, but I found out I hate flying SF’s. It’s the same issue I had with Scorch, extremely limited second manoeuvring.

Fly Casual has Vonreg up now, is guestimated at 55 points, which is in the ball park, Wedge is 55? So hopefully is right. I can fit 2 Fanatical/optics Test Pilots with Vonreg for 200. Atm my Vonreg has Outmanoeuvre, optics and Hull upgrade. I don’t normally go for Hull/shield upgrades, but 2 Hull is just so risky. Will probably drop it back to Crack Shot or predator. Might change optics to analyser too.

Man, 55 for Vonreg seems ridiculously low.

7 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Cool! I've done Kylo/Blackout/Quickdraw, but not super seriously. I've never been satisfied with Quickdraw, though, but it seems like something good can be there. The new red TIE is just more options for that point range.

At that point, why not just go for a third Silencer? It is amazing though that those three fit in a list. Sounds like it should be good

3 hours ago, Stagsquad13 said:

At that point, why not just go for a third Silencer? It is amazing though that those three fit in a list. Sounds like it should be good

Up until very recently, I owned only two Silencers.

Been playing a lot of first order since release, last few months been using a tavson, blackout and qd list.

Started off as

QD fanatical gunner

Blackout trickshot proton torp

Tavson biohex code

Total 198

The biohex and locking blackout round 1 is a very useful part of play.

Had several practice games with this won all bar 1 which was a close loss to an experienced imperial aces player.

Took to the west Midlands UK hyperspace trial

https://tabletop.to/westmidlandshyperspacetrial

Went 4~2, had some strong and close wins, a close loss, also the one loss was to a resistance list with 4 I5 that had 1 point bigger bid. This made me wish I had left out fanatical, would have been a real match then.

When points change happened changed list to

Tavson biohex code

QD gunner

Blackout trickshot plasma torps

No played much but went 4~0 at a local tournament last few weeks. Closest game was 200~99.

I use gas clouds as these help keep tavson in the fight as much as possible, also they are great for blackout getting his ability to work and not worrying about flying over it the next turn. Try not to stress blackout until it is really needed as this keeps the coordinate from tavson open.

I also use a spread out opening with tavson in a corner facing centre, blackout about a third of the way across the board and qd near the other corner.

I am enjoying this list a great deal, even though blackout doesn't get many uses of his ability it often makes players deliberately take a sub optimal move to stop you getting the obstructed attack. And if they don't you can get more uses of it.