On 8/30/2019 at 4:15 PM, TasteTheRainbow said:

Exactly. If I can ion a ship I can also kill it. That’s the problem.

Not technically true, as ion turret and torps are a turret that the ship normally wouldn't have access to and the cheapest source of four dice

Ofc that's just on paper, but at least there's some merit. Maybe one day...

I think it’s kind of humorous that Adv Sensors and Precog have the same “after you reveal your maneuver” wording, and only now that there a Jedi are people looking for a way to counter it. Nevermind that Guri’s been ripping it up since release with the Adv Sensors stapled to her card and a free focus when knife-fighting like the murderbot she is.

15 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

I think it’s kind of humorous that Adv Sensors and Precog have the same “after you reveal your maneuver” wording, and only now that there a Jedi are people looking for a way to counter it. Nevermind that Guri’s been ripping it up since release with the Adv Sensors stapled to her card and a free focus when knife-fighting like the murderbot she is.

If we're fighting over Guri now, I am extremely in on taking away the Viper's sensor slot in exchange for a price drop on guri

2 hours ago, svelok said:

If we're fighting over Guri now, I am extremely in on taking away the Viper's sensor slot in exchange for a price drop on guri

And ruin one of the most glorious and thematically unpredictable ships in the game? The Starviper’s a pricey superfighter, and Adv Sensors is 10 pts. Guri’s a fair cost for what you’re getting IMO, and any Viper under Initiative 4 has less reason to take Adv Sensors over any other sensor.

Guri also can't regen, and doesn't always get tokens. This can lead to her going down in a ball of flames really easily with one wrong decision. Jedi have force charges and often regen droids, and are a lot cheaper when fully built. She's got incredible potential, but most folks who play this game can't really take advantage.

Now, I don't really understand the Precognative Reflexes freak-out (and I don't really think there's been one...), because Supernatural Reflexes* exists, and mostly** is the superior text. But the speculation is that PCR is going to be considerably cheaper than SNR because it's worse, and maybe that's what's leading to a renewed fear of the mechanic.

There's also a "critical mass" thing. Jedi already have a lot of tools, and adding an affordable way to get movement actions before your dial maneuver is a tool they probably don't really need affordable access to. Man, that sentence was a journey. Affordable twice? I could edit, but it's funny to me. It's late and I'm not writing clearly. But the premise--having one more trick can push something over the top--still applies. Likewise, if Guri newly got access to R2 Astromech, that'd also probably raise some concerns.

*Fun Fact: Supernatural Reflexes isn't a "when you reveal your dial" trigger, it's a "before you activate" trigger, so it can be used when Ionized.

** Mostly better, because if a ship without a boost wants to boost with PCR, a strain is a lot less costly than a damage. Might work out better on Vader, for example, who can now pre-move boost without taking the hit.

15 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

...

Likewise, if Guri newly got access to R2 Astromech, that'd also probably raise some concerns.

...

** Mostly better, because if a ship without a boost wants to boost with PCR, a strain is a lot less costly than a damage. Might work out better on Vader, for example, who can now pre-move boost without taking the hit.

That is a very solid point. The Starviper does lack in an astromech slot, so it doesn’t have anything in the way of repair/regen options (B-Wings are in a similar position). Which is for the better that the Viper doesn’t have that slot available... It is however primary attack 3, whereas the Aethersprite is a primary 2 unless it is upgraded to a 7b in which it loses a (questionably loyal) green die. But if you want, Guri can be jacked up to obscene levels of survivability by giving her the Virago, a Shield Upgrade, and a Hull Upgrade. This 100-something point price tag results in B-Wing health levels hiding behind 3 greens and the most unpredictably crazy ship in the game. Botching a maneuver isn’t quite as bad when you can eat a full 5-crit/hit Advanced Torpedo and likely survive if your dice blank out. Add Elusive for maximum doge. Wow.

The problem I see with Precog Vader is (like Adv Sensor Vader) it kills one of his strongest abilities. Spending a Force to take an extra actions is increadibly powerful in v2. Precog/AdvSensor limits him to just that 1 action prior to maneuvering, which is one reason why SuperFlex Vader is a +32pt force ability to take.

47 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

This 100-something point price tag results in B-Wing health levels hiding behind 3 greens and the most unpredictably crazy ship in the game.

Oh, Guri can be crazy. She just doesn't win all too much. That's the biggest reason folks aren't too worried about Advanced Sensors.

R2 regen was OK before Jedi, and maybe a problem now that Jedi exist. Doesn't seem strange for Advanced Sensors/Precognative Reflexes to be similar.

48 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

The problem I see with Precog Vader is (like Adv Sensor Vader) it kills one of his strongest abilities. Spending a Force to take an extra actions is increadibly powerful in v2. Precog/AdvSensor limits him to just that 1 action prior to maneuvering, which is one reason why SuperFlex Vader is a +32pt force ability to take.

I guess it will all depend on cost.

Sure, PCR will nix your extra actions, but if you saved a Lock from last round with FCS (AdvS Vader can't go FCS, and I think that matters), and are able to wiggle into a position where you have an attack but won't get shot back, who cares that you can't also do another action? It'll also matter that PCR can boost you--potentially with no consequences other than spending a force.

SNR Kylo probably wants to do his SNR stuff most turns, but PCR Vader probably won't. If it's like a 10 points or less upgrade, I can totally see squeezing it into the right list, just for a tool that can really swing things at the right time. If PCR is closer to 20 points on Vader, I don't think it'd see much play.

I'm thinking it'll probably be around 8 points to start when taking into account the cost of a mod, action and a possible strain (if you choose an action not on the action bar) along side only allowing a boost or barrel roll to be performed.

8 points seems absurdly cheap to me. I think it'd get pretty toxic if pre-move Jedi and Vader were really affordable and common.