I only recently realised that I should start using 'homebrew' in the titles of these threads, cause that's what they are.

So I made a homebrew for the Umbaran starfighter and there are 2 directions I could take it with the idea I have for the config. One is simpler and uses energy shell charges as a stand-in for the ordnance used by the Umbaran starfighter.

Variation 1

Discarded Launcher (Bomb Token) - At the end of the Activation Phase this device detonates, and each ship at range 0-1 rolls 1 attack die. That ship then suffers 1 crit plus 1 hit/crit damage for each matching result.

I don't like this one as much.

Variation 2

Discarded Launcher (Bomb Token) - At the end of the Activation Phase this device detonates, and each ship at range 0-1 gains 2 ion tokens unless they roll 3 attack dice, suffering any hit/crit damage rolled.

I'm super proud of this. If you've seen the umbara episodes from the clone wars, I hope you can appreciate the flavour of umbarans being more effective when their opponents are disoriented/caught off-guard. I feel like this does a good job of reflecting the dynamic of umbaran encounters with clones in those episodes (it's also fitting as the projectiles are essentially just big, bright, flare-like balls of plasma which could quite conceivably throw you off a bit in combat). They also incidentally counter a lot of clone pilot abilities at the same time, for extra theme points.

Of course, some balance tweaks are likely in order.

Flexible airframe: When your EMP missile launcher is flipped facedown down or unequipped, your action bar gains a [boost // red evade] action.

(One Dot) - I5

[One recurring charge]

After you perform an attack, you may spend one charge to assign one of your red or orange tokens to the defender.

While your charge is inactive, roll one less defense die while defending.

(One Dot) - I4

When attacking a ship obstructed by an object, before rolling dice, you may acquire a lock on that ship.

(One Dot) - I3

[3 recurring charges]

When a ship at range 0-2 defends, you may spend two charges to remove one of the attacker's red tokens. If you do, the attacking ship rerolls a die of your choice.

Criticism is appreciated.

Thoughts:

• The Umbarans are all about stealth, distraction and confusion. Agreed.
• EMP Missiles
  • I would avoid using Variation 1 (Energy Shell Charges), because...well...they're not. For starters, that leaves the problem that if you 'drop' a discarded launcher, you still have the energy shell charges missile upgrade equipped - despite having 'dropped the launcher'.
  • Is there a reason you're particularly fixated on dropping the launchers?
  • Unless it's a double-sided card, then I wouldn't use 'flip'. If you want it dual-purpose, then allow you to spend "all active [charge]" to drop the launcher. Provided you've got no means to recover charge, then that does the job.
  • Discarded launcher is hideously powerful. A range 1 ion bomb dropping enough tokens to ionize a medium ship is very powerful, and rolling 3 attack dice is hardly an alternative.
  • The weapon itself is too good. That is, right now it's an automatic choice because it's better than the primary weapon in every way . It only needs a focus token (so there's no initiative issues) and it's a full-arc, range 1-3 ordnance attack - the only such one in the game, at the moment. Most missiles either require a target lock, or require a specific range band (Bullseye, 1, 1-2, or 2-3), or both.
  • Getting rerolls for each red token is nice, but that's also giving the ship easy access to double-modified red dice across its whole engagement range for very little investment. Plus it doesn't stack with your I4 pilot's ability to gain a free target lock.
  • What is, in your mind, the big difference between EMP missiles and Mag-Pulse (or Ion) warheads? Because EMP doesn't sound like something which should primarily be doing damage.
• Chassis
  • Again, you're making the EMP launcher an automatic choice. What if I don't want to equip it? It's a weapon, it shouldn't be free, but if it's an option the ship should still 'work' without it.
  • Adding actions to the action bar as a chassis rule feels wrong. Getting to perform an action under certain circumstances, maybe. One thing which was relatively unique is the fighter's ability to hover and spin; maybe giving it something similar to the U-wing's rotating ability might work, allowing you to receive stress/strain/deplete/whatever to rotate 90' after fully executing a basic manoeuvre?
    • Alternatively give it some protection from Pilot criticals via the ray-shielded cockpit? Giving it an equivalent ability to the old elite talent Determination might work.
  • 3 hull 2 shields....5 damage behind agility 3 puts it on par with the TIE/x1 and not far behind the TIE silencer. They're not that good! I get giving them agility 3 if they can fly in a funky fashion, but a lower damage capacity in that case makes sense. I know the cockpit is shielded but the rest of the ship, so far as I know, isn't.
  • Focus, Roll/Focus and Evade are fine.
• Dial
  • I guess there's no reason that it can't have speed 3 blues, but it never felt blisteringly fast compared to other fighters. Blue turns are a matter of taste (and the combat role of the ship) but I'd make them slower if I kept them.
  • No ship has both segnors loops and talon rolls - I guess there's no reason you can't have both, but it's an odd choice.
  • Very, very few civil war era ships have all three speeds of turn. Notice that even Jedi starfighters don't. Having every basic maneuver except the straight '1' puts this thing at the very tip-top of the interceptor dial race and I'm not sure that's justified (I'm not sure we ever really saw one in a 'dogfight'?).
• Pilots
  • I5
    • This ability is (a) way too harsh and (b) doesn't need the charge. Barring something funky like snap shot, a ship will only make one attack per turn, and it's certainly going to have to work to have multiple red tokens at once. So having a charge counter to ensure you only do it once per turn is kind of unnecessary. But the ability itself is too powerful. By attacking, you're automatically removing a red token (so better than ten numb who requires you to roll a focus result) and automatically dropping a stress token on your opponent with no way for them to avoid it (unlike say, Shadow Caster which requires you to actually hit ) and it works with any red token rather than a specific type, from de-ionizing yourself to breaking target locks.
  • I4
    • "When attacking, before rolling dice, if the attack is obstructed by an object, you may acquire a lock on the defender."
      • The rule itself is fair enough, and supports a sneaky ambush
  • I3
    • Three recurring charges spend 2 at a time. For an effect which isn't especially great (making an attacker reroll a dice isn't that important since it happens before they spend focus tokens, trigger Fearless, etc) it's a weird timing requirement. A pilot who gives you a defensive boost against opponents with red tokens is fair enough but this one feels too convoluted and not good enough. Compare Del Meeko or Serissu, who give you rerolls against (potentially) every incoming attack.

A big question is what you want the 'theme' to be. Either sneaky sneaky, in which case you need the ability to generate and distribute those red tokens, or else a 'terrain fighter' like the Mining Guild TIE springs to mind. If you wanted, you could even try giving your top ace the ability under certain circumstances to perform a cloak action (let's say if there are no opponents at range 1-3 at the start of the engagement phase?)

7 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I would avoid using Variation 1 (Energy Shell Charges), because...well...they're not. For starters, that leaves the problem that if you 'drop' a discarded launcher, you still have the energy shell charges missile upgrade equipped - despite having 'dropped the launcher'.

I tried to word the config (equip and 'use') in such a way that this would be addressed. Perhaps it could say that you must discard the ESCs as well? I don't much care for that variation anyway.

7 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Is there a reason you're particularly fixated on dropping the launchers?

I just found the effect to be very thematic and it allowed the umbaran starfighter to be able to bomb on a very nimble chassis, making for a very unique ship characteristic of the CIS. Also, a config that grants an attack and functions as a bomb is just kinda neat in my mind.

7 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Unless it's a double-sided card, then I wouldn't use 'flip'. If you want it dual-purpose, then allow you to spend "all active [charge]" to drop the launcher. Provided you've got no means to recover charge, then that does the job.

I was sort of thinking that you could have the effect of the bomb printed on the back of the card, just to save space.

7 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Discarded launcher is hideously powerful. A range 1 ion bomb dropping enough tokens to ionize a medium ship is very powerful, and rolling 3 attack dice is hardly an alternative.

The exact effect of the bomb isn't really integral to the design of the ship in my mind, I just wanted to differentiate it from other bombs. Would it be crazy to suggest that it remain as a bomb token, but triggers via overlap and retains a range 0-1 AOE? That's how it detonates in the episode, after all.

7 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

The weapon itself is too good. That is, right now it's an automatic choice because it's better than the primary weapon in every way . It only needs a focus token (so there's no initiative issues) and it's a full-arc, range 1-3 ordnance attack - the only such one in the game, at the moment. Most missiles either require a target lock, or require a specific range band (Bullseye, 1, 1-2, or 2-3), or both.

Yeah I wasn't really sure how to design the chassis if I'm honest, especially when balancing the primary attack against the EMP. I doubt that turning the primary up to three would mean that people would still opt for the launcher, then again if you keep target lock off of the ship, that could mean the EMP is your only real option for double mods. That means no mod slot, though, which I suppose makes sense.

7 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Getting rerolls for each red token is nice, but that's also giving the ship easy access to double-modified red dice across its whole engagement range for very little investment. Plus it doesn't stack with your I4 pilot's ability to gain a free target lock.

It might not stack on his attack, no, but other friendly ships can make use of his lock on their attack for the reroll, and he effectively gives himself fcs. Suppose you could think of him more as a support ship on that front. As for the effect of the attack, it would all be dependent on price, no?

8 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

What is, in your mind, the big difference between EMP missiles and Mag-Pulse (or Ion) warheads? Because EMP doesn't sound like something which should primarily be doing damage.

Basically I couldn't find much on the wiki that gave me any indication of any tokens a weapon like this might inflict. Hence, I chose to go the route of taking the effect of the weapon in a more thematic direction reflecting umbaran tactics. In the show, the defining characteristics of the weapon are that it can blow open a blast door. Yeah, the name is pretty much meaningless it seems.

8 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

One thing which was relatively unique is the fighter's ability to hover and spin; maybe giving it something similar to the U-wing's rotating ability might work, allowing you to receive stress/strain/deplete/whatever to rotate 90' after fully executing a basic manoeuvre?

• Alternatively give it some protection from Pilot criticals via the ray-shielded cockpit? Giving it an equivalent ability to the old elite talent Determination might work.

I was racking my brain trynna figure out how to make the ray-shielded cockpit work and I think you've absolutely nailed it! As for the ability to rotate, how about a config (taking the title of the ship ability, flexible airframe) that allows that, so you can either take the missile pod, or the flexible airframe. It also stays true to my initial idea of making the ship more maneuevrable when it doesn't have the missile pods attached.

8 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

3 hull 2 shields....5 damage behind agility 3 puts it on par with the TIE/x1 and not far behind the TIE silencer. They're not that good! I get giving them agility 3 if they can fly in a funky fashion, but a lower damage capacity in that case makes sense. I know the cockpit is shielded but the rest of the ship, so far as I know, isn't.

3 hull 1 shield? We need a little more crit-protection than just ray-shielded cockpit.

8 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

No ship has both segnors loops and talon rolls - I guess there's no reason you can't have both, but it's an odd choice.

I'm really not great at making dials... That said I'd probably want to keep both the segnors and tallon rolls, and tone down the rest of the dial.

8 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

This ability is (a) way too harsh and (b) doesn't need the charge. Barring something funky like snap shot, a ship will only make one attack per turn, and it's certainly going to have to work to have multiple red tokens at once. So having a charge counter to ensure you only do it once per turn is kind of unnecessary. But the ability itself is too powerful. By attacking, you're automatically removing a red token (so better than ten numb who requires you to roll a focus result) and automatically dropping a stress token on your opponent with no way for them to avoid it (unlike say, Shadow Caster which requires you to actually hit ) and it works with any red token rather than a specific type, from de-ionizing yourself to breaking target locks.

You didn't seem to mention that when you defend with the charge inactive, you roll one fewer defense die. Just wanna make sure you're making this assessment with that in mind.

8 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Three recurring charges spend 2 at a time. For an effect which isn't especially great (making an attacker reroll a dice isn't that important since it happens before they spend focus tokens, trigger Fearless, etc) it's a weird timing requirement. A pilot who gives you a defensive boost against opponents with red tokens is fair enough but this one feels too convoluted and not good enough. Compare Del Meeko or Serissu, who give you rerolls against (potentially) every incoming attack.

Again, just wanna make sure that you're aware it functions similarly to M9-G8, working on both ally and enemy attack rolls.

8 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

If you wanted, you could even try giving your top ace the ability under certain circumstances to perform a cloak action (let's say if there are no opponents at range 1-3 at the start of the engagement phase?)

I adore this!

This is exactly what I'm looking for when I post these. Thank you so much.

1 hour ago, Prosk_019 said:

but other friendly ships can make use of his lock on their attack for the reroll

How?

1 hour ago, Prosk_019 said:

so you can either take the missile pod, or the flexible airframe. It also stays true to my initial idea of making the ship more maneuevrable when it doesn't have the missile pods attached.

Giving it a choice of two configs, flexible airframe (a slightly weaker version of dalan oberos' ability) and discardable missile pods (gain a missile slot) gives you your choice. I might even suggest double missile slots - that justifies it being a bit more expensive and allows you to equip the more exotic stuff like diamond-boron missiles and barrage rockets, plus it gives you a second rules card you can put your 'drop the launcher as a bomb' rules on without crowding them on the EMP missile launcher card.

1 hour ago, Prosk_019 said:

As for the effect of the attack, it would all be dependent on price, no?

Yes, but one thing FFG have tried to avoid is making secondary weapons flat out 'better' than primary weapons - no secondary weapon can totally replace a ship's primary weapon in all situations - either they have a range blind spot, or an arc blind spot, or require a target lock or are limited to a maximum of 1 damage, or some combination of the above.

1 hour ago, Prosk_019 said:

We need a little more crit-protection than just ray-shielded cockpit.

Why, if that's all that was shielded. Making the ship ability be immunity to pilot criticals means...what, about 1/4 of the criticals you take are discarded. That's not bad for a 'free' ability.

1 hour ago, Prosk_019 said:

Again, just wanna make sure that you're aware it functions similarly to M9-G8, working on both ally and enemy attack rolls

I hadn't. Reardless, working every other turn just feels unnecessarily convoluted when you're only getting to modify a single die with it. And by comparison, that makes it exceptionally powerful because you're then able to K-turn, and instead of being stressed, 'spend' the stress as a mini-target lock and then be unstressed the next turn. That might be a bit too good for a pilot who lets you use that on anyone in the vicinity (not even just another umbaran) rather than just themselves.

All this chat makes me want to go back and watch that episode again. Thanks guys!

I would consider changing the basic stat line to 2 Attack, 2 Defense, 2 Hull and 2 Shields.

The main thing I remember about those ships from that episode was how its controls were different, it was slow but extremely maneuverable, and didn't they have stealth capabilities? Add the cloak action to its action bar?

I like Magnus' ideas for the configs: Flexible Airframe : Add Barrel Roll action to action bar. After completing a maneuver, receive 1 strain to rotate your ship 90' Discardable Missile Pods : Add 1 missile slot and Target Lock action to action bar. Action: Remove all charges from an equipped missile to drop 1 bomb token. When bomb detonates all ships in range 1 roll 1 die per charge removed.

Make the dial slower, so no 4 or 5 speed and remove 3 turns, S-Loops. Add 1 straight and make all the 1 moves blue. Add stop and reverse maneuvers.

I would consider for pilot abilities things that would capitalize on the configs and sneakiness of the ship:

After you receive a strain token you may perform a barrel roll action (you may do this even while stressed)

After you perform an attack you may perform a boost or barrel roll action.

After declaring the target of the attack, if the attack is obstructed acquire a target lock.

Pilot may perform the cloak action even when stressed.

Gain 1 calculate token after spending a charge on an equipped secondary weapon.

Just some ideas I had after reading through your discussion. I really need to go back and watch that episode so I can better remember what the ship was like.

2 hours ago, dunhop said:

Remove all charges from an equipped missile to drop 1 bomb token. When bomb detonates all ships in range 1 roll 1 die per charge removed.

I quite like this.

3 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

How?

Lock tokens qualify as red tokens

6 hours ago, Prosk_019 said:

I quite like this.

Lock tokens qualify as red tokens

Oh, you mean with EMP missiles 'if your target has red tokens' effect. Fair enough (though as noted I'm not a fan of that rule for reasons stated above).

9 hours ago, dunhop said:

The main thing I remember about those ships from that episode was how its controls were different, it was slow but extremely maneuverable, and didn't they have stealth capabilities? Add the cloak action to its action bar?

It was sneaky but it didn't get to go invisible mid-fight. Hence my idea - either as a pilot ability, ship ability or upgrade - to let you cloak, but not when you're in 'visible range' (i.e. 0-3) of an enemy; they can come 'out of nowhere' but can't (unlike a TIE phantom) disappear again mid-dogfight without breaking contact first.

9 hours ago, dunhop said:

Add stop and reverse maneuvers

I don't know about stop - yes, it's manoeuvrable but nominally most star wars fighters can 'hover' in one source or another, but giving it a non-red reverse manoeuvre (let's say white speed 1 reverse banks and/or turns?) would be weird as heck and let you put in the 'goes backwards and spins' trait well without needing to use a ship ability to do it - which would then let you have ray-shielded cockpit as a pilot ability (if you receive a face-up Pilot damage card, discard it immediately).

Give it, say, 4 hit points behind agility 3 and you've got good odds of one of the damage cards you suffer being a critical, and if it's a pilot critical (8/33), you discard the damage card immediately - essentially giving you on average an extra quarter of a hit point (and at 4/3 it's already as tough as a Delta-7, Nantex, or First Order TIE fighter)

9 hours ago, dunhop said:

Action: Remove all charges from an equipped missile to drop 1 bomb token. When bomb detonates all ships in range 1 roll 1 die per charge removed.

6 hours ago, Prosk_019 said:

I quite like this.

Me too. You shouldn't get any benefit from discarding an empty launcher, so making the effect contingent on the number of charges remaining when you drop it is sensible. Also, good call that it needs to add the Target Lock action, as that gives you access to the bulk of missile types.

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Me too. You shouldn't get any benefit from discarding an empty launcher, so making the effect contingent on the number of charges remaining when you drop it is sensible. Also, good call that it needs to add the Target Lock action, as that gives you access to the bulk of missile types.

It always seemed to me like the missile pods were only capable of firing the EMP missiles. The projectiles appear very large compared to conventional missiles and seem to lack a physical body/warhead, etc.

At the very least we should include the EMP missile somehow, as umbarans firing everything except them just doesn't make sense to me.

3 minutes ago, Prosk_019 said:

At the very least we should include the EMP missile somehow, as umbarans firing everything except them just doesn't make sense to me.

I've no problem with it being a separatist-only focus missile (which will effectively limit it to the Umbarans and baktoid prototypes) or even specifically umbaran only, but I figure giving them an actual honest-to-god missile slot and the choice of other stuff, even if 75% of the time you'd take EMP missiles, leaves the ship more open ended and future proof.

32 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I've no problem with it being a separatist-only focus missile (which will effectively limit it to the Umbarans and baktoid prototypes) or even specifically umbaran only, but I figure giving them an actual honest-to-god missile slot and the choice of other stuff, even if 75% of the time you'd take EMP missiles, leaves the ship more open ended and future proof.

Agreed. Range requirement of 2-3 also works. I hadn't realised the fact that all missiles come with a kind of caveat like that, and I just took the focus requirement as that. Blockable, unusable after a turnaround, etc.

10 minutes ago, Prosk_019 said:

I hadn't realised the fact that all missiles come with a kind of caveat like that

The only range 1-3 full-arc missile is Mag-Pulse Warheads, which both requires a 'telegraph your target' target lock, and is limited to doing a maximum of 1 damage to its target (plus a bunch of negative tokens).

Strange that nobody brought up this ship's swiveling cannon. I'd expect it to have a 180 arc or something like the Nantex mobile arc.

On 8/30/2019 at 2:26 PM, eMeM said:

Strange that nobody brought up this ship's swiveling cannon. I'd expect it to have a 180 arc or something like the Nantex mobile arc.

Would you reckon that it swivels 'enough' to warrant that? Granted I don't recall the nantex's swiveling capabilities really being shown off in its appearances either so, might be entirely possible.

On 8/31/2019 at 4:22 PM, Prosk_019 said:

Would you reckon that it swivels 'enough' to warrant that?

Definitely not xD I rewatched the episodes and it doesn't swivel at all. Sorry, my memory must have combined it with one of the other strange Umbaran death machines.