Maybe it's just me but I don't see Plated Hull being all that good. Due to timing it doesn't work against Marksmanship, Advanced Targeting Computer, Static, Proton Torpedoes, or any other crit-granting mods. Remember that defenders mod attack dice before attackers do. So it's really only protecting you from nats, and only until you get your first real crit.

Someone want to run the numbers? I just don't see it. Far more valuable is the extra shield, but it kind of balances against the loss of blues. I definitely see this not far above the Rebel/Scum Y-Wings in terms of cost, except for the extreme cases of Anakin et al.

So it seems new force powers are just force version of other upgrades (advanced sensors and snap shot) Nice to have more stuff, but kinda lazy

25 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Maybe it's just me but I don't see Plated Hull being all that good. Due to timing it doesn't work against Marksmanship, Advanced Targeting Computer, Static, Proton Torpedoes, or any other crit-granting mods. Remember that defenders mod attack dice before attackers do. So it's really only protecting you from nats, and only until you get your first real crit.

Someone want to run the numbers? I just don't see it. Far more valuable is the extra shield, but it kind of balances against the loss of blues. I definitely see this not far above the Rebel/Scum Y-Wings in terms of cost, except for the extreme cases of Anakin et al.

You make a fair point. To counter point, I played in a HS Trial the other week and in 7 rounds I came across two lists with crit generating mechanics; both CIS swarms with Energy Shell Charges. So in more than half of my games it would have mitigated crits. It all comes down to how much it costs, but it seems like a useful passive ability.

2 minutes ago, Redblock said:

So it seems new force powers are just force version of other upgrades (advanced sensors and snap shot) Nice to have more stuff, but kinda lazy

Strong disagree. There are plenty of talents that force users are drooling for and it just makes sense to give them a different version. There still aren't nearly enough force talents but at least they're getting closer.

Foresight is great as it gives a single mod for your force spent and works out to range 3, but it's bullseye only so it might be cheaper. Precog is amazing because it lets a ship do actions it doesn't even have, sort of like a halfway between AS and SR. Vader, Quiz, and others will love Precog if it's affordable.

One nice thing about Ahsoka Gunner: she actually works on an ARC, or any other non-turret ship. Too many gunners are essentially Turret-only.

33 minutes ago, Burius1981 said:

You make a fair point. To counter point, I played in a HS Trial the other week and in 7 rounds I came across two lists with crit generating mechanics; both CIS swarms with Energy Shell Charges. So in more than half of my games it would have mitigated crits. It all comes down to how much it costs, but it seems like a useful passive ability.

I agree that it seems like a useful passive ability, but plated hull wouldn't affect energy shell charges or any other crit generation. Defender modifies first, so plated hull only changes crits that were naturally rolled.

39 minutes ago, Burius1981 said:

To counter point, I played in a HS Trial the other week and in 7 rounds I came across two lists with crit generating mechanics; both CIS swarms with Energy Shell Charges. So in more than half of my games it would have mitigated crits. It all comes down to how much it costs, but it seems like a useful passive ability.

But that's not a counter point. What I'm saying is that the Plated Hull wouldn't help you against those at all. The order of events goes like this:

Vulture: Rolls hit focus blank

Y-Wing: Could turn crit to hit but there's no crit there

Vulture: Spends calculate to turn focus to crit

Y-Wing: Rolls a blank and takes hit and crit

It would be nice if the initial roll came up with a crit, which statistically does happen, but it doesn't help against ESC, ATC, Protons or APTs, Mag-Pulse, Marksmanship, Static, TN-3465, RAC, or pretty much any other crit-generating ability (except maybe Rebel Han Solo which is pretty indirect).

If that played hull timing is correct yes it’s massively less useful. Also just super rules gimmicky.

We should make a big stink about it because this is all reduction of enjoyment and quality in the expansion of complexity unnecessarily

1 hour ago, Redblock said:

So it seems new force powers are just force version of other upgrades (advanced sensors and snap shot) Nice to have more stuff, but kinda lazy

Also agreed. Extremely lazy. Would feel more interesting to not have any overlap.

reprinted supernatural just feels totally weird.

This stinks of bad design

Just now, Blail Blerg said:

If that played hull timing is correct yes it’s massively less useful. Also just super rules gimmicky.

We should make a big stink about it because this is all reduction of enjoyment and quality in the expansion of complexity unnecessarily

Opponent mods your dice before you do. Thus Plated Hull flips a crit to hit before the attack mods.

6 minutes ago, MegaSilver said:

Opponent mods your dice before you do. Thus Plated Hull flips a crit to hit before the attack mods.

I understand the timing. I worry that FFG did not.

This seems beyond useless.

2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Maybe PCR comes in at half that, 5/10/15/20.

I expect it to be cheaper than that. Advanced Sensors barely sees play at 10 points, and that card has no cost to trigger and allows your full complement of actions. On top of that, force pilots quite often want to do additional actions (Vader ability, v1 linked actions, Aethersprite ability, Anakin Full Throttle), which Precog shuts down. If this card, on an I6, costs more than 10 points, it'll see play about as often as Advanced Sensors Vader. At 20 it'll be completely DOA on everyone except pilots who can mostly make do without actions, such as Luke and Mace.

25 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

reprinted supernatural just feels totally weird.

This stinks of bad design

Or maybe, just maybe, they can actually learn from their mistakes? Don't we all want something like SR that isn't stupid kinds of busted?

Precog is nothing like Advanced Sensors except as Guri uses it; for most ships it's to get your focus or lock before bumping. For some it's for pre-maneuver reposition, but this is limited to the Starviper, the TIE/D, TIE/v1, TIE/x1, the E-Wing, and the B-Wing, and it's a bad idea on almost all of those. The only pilots that really use it that way are Corran and Guri and the occasional TIE Defender that doesn't mind having Full Throttle turned off.

This lets you take actions you don't even have with a fairly minor downside. It will be very good on R4 Anakin Y-Wing and potentially good on many others, but it doesn't have to cost 32 points.

I really don't get what all the stink is. I think these are cool and quite different from other things that exist. Some people are just really hard to please...

11 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Precog is nothing like Advanced Sensors except as Guri uses it; for most ships it's to get your focus or lock before bumping. For some it's for pre-maneuver reposition, but this is limited to the Starviper, the TIE/D, TIE/v1, TIE/x1, the E-Wing, and the B-Wing, and it's a bad idea on almost all of those. The only pilots that really use it that way are Corran and Guri and the occasional TIE Defender that doesn't mind having Full Throttle turned off.

This lets you take actions you don't even have with a fairly minor downside. It will be very good on R4 Anakin Y-Wing and potentially good on many others, but it doesn't have to cost 32 points.

I really don't get what all the stink is. I think these are cool and quite different from other things that exist. Some people are just really hard to please...

G1As, particularly 4Lom really wants Advanced Sensors. But since it got up to 10 it is far more difficult to justify now.

I really dislike Precog, because now it is even more difficult to block a force user, right what the game needed, with Jedis, Ani and Q-tips in droves everywhere.

Just now, Managarmr said:

I really dislike Precog, because now it is even more difficult to block a force user

Why bother blocking them if they're not getting their actions anyway? I thought the point of blocking was action denial? This does that for you already. Precog means no tokens or locks.

2 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

Q-tips

?

Just now, ClassicalMoser said:

Why bother blocking them if they're not getting their actions anyway? I thought the point of blocking was action denial? This does that for you already. Precog means no tokens or locks.

Action denial is one reason, another is setting up concentrated salvos on a target with your ships. This gives small base force users another option to bypass that.

3 hours ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

With the wording on Precog and it limiting you from taking any further actions this turn (like Adv Sensors), I think “a bit cheaper” will be an understatement. Adv Sensors is 10pts, Supernatural upwards of 32 on an Initiative 6. Precog will probably be fat more reasonable, around 14 to 16 points at most.

Isn't this basically Sabine's ability, except: (1) it costs a Force, (2) you don't get another action, but (3) you don't have to do a Blue.

Is that really a 14-point ability, even at I6?

13 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Why bother blocking them if they're not getting their actions anyway? I thought the point of blocking was action denial? This does that for you already. Precog means no tokens or locks.

The point of blocking a Force user is

1) action denial, so that they just have Force (and not focus, evade etc on top of force)

2) this depletes their force pool for next rounds, as they now only have Force for mods

3) you have the ship pinned down for your kill box

4) and a better idea where it goes next turn, if it can get out of the scrum at all

Precog lets them just slip out of 3 and 4.

13 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

?

Inquisitor Taps.

28 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

I really dislike Precog, because now it is even more difficult to block a force user, right what the game needed, with Jedis, Ani and Q-tips in droves everywhere.

It won’t be that bad. Barrel-rolls are just a lateral shift, and Boost modifies your maneuver with a forward 1 straight or bank. I’ve been blocked plenty of times with Adv Sensors on a non-Starviper setup, due to obstacle placement or enemy ship placement.

It does make a Force user with that ability a bit harder to predict and block, but not impossibly so. It’s not like they’ve got banked Barrel-Rolls expanding their potential maneuver placement into some sort of fractal design.

6 hours ago, svelok said:

R4 Astromech, and ships that aren't Y-Wings

6 hours ago, svelok said:

R4 Astromech, and ships that aren't Y-Wings

Yeah this ship is crying out for R4 Astromech, it gets six extra blue manuveurs and gets banks and turns made blue when previously it had none, so its far less predictable when stressed.

33 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Isn't this basically Sabine's ability, except: (1) it costs a Force, (2) you don't get another action, but (3) you don't have to do a Blue.

Is that really a 14-point ability, even at I6?

Sort of. It is a similar pre-maneuver reposition as Sabine (or SuperR), but with a Strain if you don’t have the reposition you used. And you can’t take a further action later in the activation. Comparing to an Iniative 3 Sabine is fair, but I would still compare it to Advanced Sensors in that it is a bit more limiting in the action you take (and in costing a Force). But less limiting due to the fact that everyone who can equip this ability will be a Force user, and any Force user with 2 or more Force can still expect at least a Calculate’s level of dice mod if they’ve got Force available. Aside from Guri or other such shenanigans, using Adv Sensors to reposition means you’re not likely to have any green tokens. And for that, on an Initiative 6 powerhouse Jedi with 3 Force, I could see them giving it an Initiative-variable cost with a top-end price-tag of 14 points.

c3po a crew? do each y wing get a crew? if so this looks like its going to be taking over support ship role from the Arc.

or maybe only r2 pilot has crew slot.

3 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

c3po a crew? do each y wing get a crew? if so this looks like its going to be taking over support ship role from the Arc.

or maybe only r2 pilot has crew slot.

I think only R2 will get a crew, and likely no astromech slot. Probably to represent him piloting the ship from the astromech slot, while C3-P0 sits in the cockpit and whines about odds of survival.

1 hour ago, Okapi said:

I expect it to be cheaper than that. Advanced Sensors barely sees play at 10 points, and that card has no cost to trigger and allows your full complement of actions. On top of that, force pilots quite often want to do additional actions (Vader ability, v1 linked actions, Aethersprite ability, Anakin Full Throttle), which Precog shuts down. If this card, on an I6, costs more than 10 points, it'll see play about as often as Advanced Sensors Vader. At 20 it'll be completely DOA on everyone except pilots who can mostly make do without actions, such as Luke and Mace.

I won't defend my costs--it really was just throwing something out without thinking to illustrate the point that maybe this becomes only a little cheaper than SNR, but SNR goes sky-high. These sorts of pre-maneuver movement actions can often be really annoying to play against, and I really wouldn't be surprised to see SNR get a massive nerfhammer.

However, I think at 10 points this sees a tonne more play than AdvS on Vader.

Advanced Sensors also competes with Fire Control System (PCR Vader almost surely runs FCS, and doesn't need to take Lock actions as frequently) and doesn't give Vader a Boost. Meanwhile, simply getting into a position to be not-shot-at is hugely potent on a ship like an Aethersprite. Anakin ought to have an amazingly easy job lining up Bullseye or Range 1 to clear his stress when doing red moves. Even if it isn't quite as potent or flexible as SNR, it's still a lot of adaptable movement you can command.