36 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

...

However, I think at 10 points this sees a tonne more play than AdvS on Vader.

Advanced Sensors also competes with Fire Control System (PCR Vader almost surely runs FCS, and doesn't need to take Lock actions as frequently) and doesn't give Vader a Boost. Meanwhile, simply getting into a position to be not-shot-at is hugely potent on a ship like an Aethersprite. Anakin ought to have an amazingly easy job lining up Bullseye or Range 1 to clear his stress when doing red moves. Even if it isn't quite as potent or flexible as SNR, it's still a lot of adaptable movement you can command.

One of the biggest nails in the coffin for Adv Sensors Vader, is that Adv Sensors kills one the best reasons to take Vader. Vader’s ability of taking an action and the paying a Force to take an action, is ******* awesome! And it works so well with SuperReflexes because SR doesn’t stop his normal action or his ability to follow up an action with another action. Super-gR8 Vader can pull 3 actions a turn!

Meanwhile Advanced Sensors Vader can just do a Focus, Lock, or Barrel-Roll before his maneuver, and then cry about his lost Padameme for the rest of his activation.

4 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

But yeah... you're probably right, now that I think about it. its about on par with Han gunner.

Ahsoka seems quite a bit better than Han Gunner since She is Han Gunner for more than one ship, and it is a force point if it isn't used.

4 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

There's always the possibility that after the release of Precognative Reflexes, Supernatural Reflexes will get nerfed like mad.

Hasn't Supernatural been "nerfed like mad"? Have we seen it used much at all. Kylo is great with it, and I've seen some Anakin and Obi use, but I don't see much of them, and they aren't really making waves.

As for the Plated Hull, to me it seems great. Even against ATC and Marksmanship, because natural hits happen. If Vader gets crit, hit, hit, the crit gets modified to a hit, and then modified back, as opposed to switching to two crits and a hit. Especially on a 1 green die ship, this will be nice. Additionally, Luminara can further mod that crit to an eyeball if she is around.

1 hour ago, 5050Saint said:

Hasn't Supernatural been "nerfed like mad"? Have we seen it used much at all. Kylo is great with it, and I've seen some Anakin and Obi use, but I don't see much of them, and they aren't really making waves.

Supernatural Reflexes has kind of always been this awkward card. It's incredibly strong, and kind of goes against the goal of having dials matter, having decisions matter. It hasn't won a lot of major events, but it's also something which has a power which can be frustrating to play against. When it works, it can feel like there's nothing you can do. I keep meaning to fly it more with TIE/v1 generic Inquisitors, since it's just so cool.

Enter Precognitive Reflexes. Similar, but really reduced. You can do a pre-maneuver movement action--only one--with a pretty substantial drawback. There's something about it which feels like a do-over. Like FFG realized that, regardless of tournament performance, SNR was a bit ahead of what they wanted.

Eh, that's all just speculation.

11 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

Yeah, she’s going to be expensive. But I think she will be good at 12-14 points still. At least I am willing to try her in a list at that cost.

don't forget the 6pts it costs for marauder title so that you can take gunner at all... thats 18pts for Han Gunner... that sort of pricing has sidelined Han Gunner ever since.

FFG will surely cost it a bit cheaper so that you will 'buy in' and use it right?

Nerf-weapon charging and ready to lay waste to this upgrade if it is priced too cheaply or turns out is more powerful than expected

12 minutes ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

FFG will surely cost it a bit cheaper so that you will 'buy in' and use it right?

I really hope they don't, but being a company that need to make money, I wouldn't put it past them. Especially considering how borken Republic is looking right now. They are strong now, but this expansion looks a little bonkers. A Jedi that can evade even when blocked and will get to jam anyone at range 0-1 while they still get force seems particularly wonky.

12 minutes ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

FFG will surely cost it a bit cheaper so that you will 'buy in' and use it right?

I really hope they don't, but being a company that need to make money, I wouldn't put it past them. Especially considering how borken Republic is looking right now. They are strong now, but this expansion looks a little bonkers. A Jedi that can evade even when blocked and will get to jam anyone at range 0-1 while they still get force seems particularly wonky.

2 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

I really hope they don't, but being a company that need to make money, I wouldn't put it past them. Especially considering how borken Republic is looking right now. They are strong now, but this expansion looks a little bonkers. A Jedi that can evade even when blocked and will get to jam anyone at range 0-1 while they still get force seems particularly wonky.

This feels like so much of an understatement.

3 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

I really hope they don't, but being a company that need to make money, I wouldn't put it past them. Especially considering how borken Republic is looking right now. They are strong now, but this expansion looks a little bonkers. A Jedi that can evade even when blocked and will get to jam anyone at range 0-1 while they still get force seems particularly wonky.

well tbh its starting to look like a 'if u can't beat them, join them' scenario. the factions that have access to the force are already strong, so lets make them even stronger? [looks across the table at the republic and imperial players who have multiple strong options for force using pilots] 😅 inquisitors are a thing, Vader is crazy good with just afterburners and so are Jedi aces with a sprinkling of cost efficient tanky support ships.

would be cool if Asajj got a small ship variant... I can dream can't I?

14 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

I’d like to know which comes first, paying the force cost of foresight or measuring to see if eligible by being in bullseye. Is it wasted force if you can’t perform the attack? I’d assume so.

"A ship can pay a cost for an effect only if the effect can be resolved."

If you can't make the attack you can't spend the force. It seems clear that you would have to first see if you can do something before you try and do it.

In this case it would seem that in order for the force to have to be spent before measuring, the card would have to be worded in such a way that you are spending the force to check arc/measure, not spending the force to make an attack.

Willing to bet that nothing in the expansion turns out to be as strong/weak as y'all think.

So, I couldn't see if anybody has noticed this yet, but Clone Wars Chopper is rly rly good. Also, his ability has the same timing step as adult Anakin's.

So you could put that on his Aethersprite (or Y-Wing, it works there too) and:

-move

-use Fine tuned to get within r1 or bullseye of an enemy if needed

-resolve Choppers ability and make a red Evade action

-resolve Anakin's pilot ability and spend a force to remove a stress

-take another action (probably a Focus, since Obi-Wan has Annie's back)

What's this? Triple action economy on Anakin Skywalker that costs two force tokens to do? Sounds almost like foreshadowing...

9 minutes ago, Mward1984 said:

So, I couldn't see if anybody has noticed this yet, but Clone Wars Chopper is rly rly good. Also, his ability has the same timing step as adult Anakin's.

So you could put that on his Aethersprite (or Y-Wing, it works there too) and:

-move

-use Fine tuned to get within r1 or bullseye of an enemy if needed

-resolve Choppers ability and make a red Evade action

-resolve Anakin's pilot ability and spend a force to remove a stress

-take another action (probably a Focus, since Obi-Wan has Annie's back)

What's this? Triple action economy on Anakin Skywalker that costs two force tokens to do? Sounds almost like foreshadowing...

P17's probably better for that purpose.

1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

P17's probably better for that purpose.

I love P17 on him as well I admit, it's what my list currently uses, but if Chopper is cheaper then he becomes really tempting. He's also why Debris Gambit went up a little in points as FFG went out of their way to explain to us that Debris Gambit would make his red Evade a white action if it's near to an asteroid etc, that said the only people who can use that combo are Naboo N-1's, and that means giving up Juke (or Daredevil if you're crazy like me) for the combo to work.

I'm also interested in Foresight, but I'm up in the air as to how much it is going to cost; the same as SnapShot? Less because it's force powered and bullseye arc only? More because it's all range bands and has a dice-mod baked in? I mean, having a great big range-ruler shaped template with the words NO FLY ZONE stamped on it in front of your ship feels like it might be pretty useful. Personally, I'd like to see both SnapShot and Foresight have variable costs that go down as you get to the higher Initiative bands.

16 minutes ago, Mward1984 said:

Personally, I'd like to see both SnapShot and Foresight have variable costs that go down as you get to the higher Initiative bands.

That sounds like a really bad idea, as these abilities give high initiative Aces the opportunity to remove a low health blocker that’s attempting to prevent a straight manoeuvre or K-Turn. It certainly shouldn’t be cheap for them!

1 minute ago, DexterOnone said:

That sounds like a really bad idea, as these abilities give high initiative Aces the opportunity to remove a low health blocker that’s attempting to prevent a straight manoeuvre or K-Turn. It certainly shouldn’t be cheap for them!

Hmm, hadn't thought of that. I was thinking in terms of it being easier to avoid higher initiative aces with it since they're moving last and so that area of denial isn't going to be anywhere unexpected for most of your turn. So probably 8-12pts for them both then? That way you can't take too many Green Squadron Aces with Snap Shot and Juke.

18 hours ago, Rickwilljames said:

also we have just seen the death of supernatural instincts. as FFG raises its price to death, then comes out with a similar assumably cheaper version.

It depends. There are arguments for both; Precognitive Reflexes is nice but it has the same problem with advanced sensors - you're stuck with a reposition and no token-generating actions.

For an Inquisitor, with only one force, boost/link/focus and a low enough initiative, supernatural reflexes is worth the investment.

For, say, Vader, if you have already grabbed a lock and you're maintaining it with Fire Control System, you can afford to use your other two force fore dice modifiers, and you think you can dodge arcs completely with a boost, Precognitive is more useable since you can boost without hurting yourself (at a cost of losing access to your chained actions ability). Luke might get good use out of it too.

The whole 'force snapshot' thing is interesting, too. It'll be interesting to see how much it costs - 5 points or less and you can have a swarm of 5 inquisitors so equipped, which is enough bullseye arcs that it'll take some effort to avoid them all. For that matter a mix of Barons with Snap Shot and Inquisitors with Foresight gives you a 'gridfire' that's going to be hard to avoid.

21 hours ago, Frimmel said:

Though I'm not sure you're going to want to calculate over focus.

One Calculate? No. Two Calculates plus rerolls? Pretty tempting...

19 hours ago, ccjacks3 said:

Meanwhile the republic models would have been era appropriate bombers rather than out of date fighter/bombers.

I'm guessing that each era is statted according to the standards of its time, and not to a universal measure. Otherwise, we'd end up with FO and Resistance fighters rolling 8 attack dice and having double-digit HP.

16 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

I understand the timing. I worry that FFG did not.

This seems beyond useless.

I don't know how it is in tournaments, but in casual play, I certainly don't see every single list including ways to guarantee a crit, so naturals are the biggest concern.

Also, even if they can make another crit, dealing with one crit is usually preferable to dealing with two.

21 hours ago, Frimmel said:

He does seem a good crew for ARCs. Though I'm not sure you're going to want to calculate over focus.

Not Calculate

DOUBLE Calculate!

Curious how Clone Commander Cody (Gunner) would work on an I6 (Anakin)? Possibly giving out Strain at the start of combat might be nice.

Would he ever just want a turret though? 2 red and 1 green seems a waste for 3 Force. Anything more and he's probably not missing against most ships.

Testing this idea (if Anakin gets torpedo slot as he should). Anakin with Advanced proton torps and instinctive aim + Plo Kun somewhere near to take his disarm token. You simply reload every turn and keep shooting. Not sure if broken, but 5 dice is five dice. Or if you want your 5 dice simple just give Anakin vtg and double tap. Double tap on I6 with force...... kinda scary.

4 minutes ago, Redblock said:

Testing this idea (if Anakin gets torpedo slot as he should). Anakin with Advanced proton torps and instinctive aim + Plo Kun somewhere near to take his disarm token. You simply reload every turn and keep shooting. Not sure if broken, but 5 dice is five dice. Or if you want your 5 dice simple just give Anakin vtg and double tap. Double tap on I6 with force...... kinda scary.

That does seem scary, but I bet that Anakin would run out of mods quickly. If he's using his action to reload and using a force every turn to fire, he only has 2 force to mod the attack, and if he does, he has none the next turn unless palp is providing support somewhere. Plo is also doing nothing, since he is taking the disarm every turn.

2 minutes ago, pyoinator said:

That does seem scary, but I bet that Anakin would run out of mods quickly. If he's using his action to reload and using a force every turn to fire, he only has 2 force to mod the attack, and if he does, he has none the next turn unless palp is providing support somewhere. Plo is also doing nothing, since he is taking the disarm every turn.

True, but 5 dice...., well double tap version is way better

4 minutes ago, pyoinator said:

That does seem scary, but I bet that Anakin would run out of mods quickly. If he's using his action to reload and using a force every turn to fire, he only has 2 force to mod the attack, and if he does, he has none the next turn unless palp is providing support somewhere. Plo is also doing nothing, since he is taking the disarm every turn.

Yeah, sounds rather expensive, especially since it only works if someone gets within range 1 of the front arc.

Double tap with precog reflexes. You will boost/br repo into range and ignore strain on your negligible 1 agi, unless you got bomb shenanigans with the extra dice bomb guy.

But 5 dice every initial turn seems dope.

Also, to avoid double post: Ahsoka seems like what Han gunner was initially aiming for.