Is this boiling down to ‘don’t tell me to early because I hate waiting’?

Conversely, if they didn’t post anything until 2 weeks before, would we not get the ‘game is dead and they are not supporting it’ complaints.

No win situation for FFG here.

23 minutes ago, Kwatchi said:

Is this boiling down to ‘don’t tell me to early because I hate waiting’?

Conversely, if they didn’t post anything until 2 weeks before, would we not get the ‘game is dead and they are not supporting it’ complaints.

No win situation for FFG here.

Or they could post a release date 1-2 months prior like most companies...

Not knowing the date e-webs would hit shelves never inspired me to buy not-e-webs.

You don’t know GW’s release dates either. Stuff just materializes out of nowhere with no time to budget.

46 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

Not knowing the date e-webs would hit shelves never inspired me to buy not-e-webs.

You don’t know GW’s release dates either. Stuff just materializes out of nowhere with no time to budget.

You're a star wars fan. You will always buy star wars merchandise (just like myself). The problem is the typical consumer or the war-game fan that isn't a star wars fan. These are the people that won't wait, or will spend their money elsewhere.

When I played 40k, GW gave an actual release date when they are a month out.

2 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

The problem is the typical consumer or the war-game fan that isn't a star wars fans.

Those people are probably buying one of the myriad of other war games out there that better fits their interests. The entire draw of Legion IS the Star Wars IP. The reason folks stay is because of gameplay/mechanics, not the reason to start.

1 minute ago, ScummyRebel said:

Those people are probably buying one of the myriad of other war games out there that better fits their interests. The entire draw of Legion IS the Star Wars IP. The reason folks stay is because of gameplay/mechanics, not the reason to start.

I know several players at my store who started because of the mechanics (after I gave them a run through) and how different it felt from 40k. So I disagree with this statement.

The Star Wars IP is definitely a major selling point, but people will come into the game from all different gaming backgrounds. The unorganized release schedule has definitely hurt their sales, or at least reduced their growth.

The good news, is that after another year, all 4 factions will have several options, so future gamers won't have these issues when getting into the game.

It seems like for Legion they like to release (or attempt to) at the end of every month. So pretty much every quarter you got a three month window to guess when they will release you unit. Throw in the craziness of them rotating what faction gets released and only one faction at a time.

At this point it feels like they are still just copying X-wing 1.0 and will repeat all the same mistakes. With four factions they will hopefully start to better organize their releases and give every faction a little something each month instead of the current random system.

I am perfectly happy with the release schedule as is. I feel like people pretty accurately predict 1-2 weeks ahead of each product anyway. Most of the time I’m at my local store to pick up my preorders before they even get a chance to call me as is.

I think a big reason they have vague release dates is because they make most of their product in China. Chinese manufacturing timetables are... dodgy. And often comes down to how much you're willing to pay to get moved to the front of the line.

That uncertainty is a big factor in why a lot of gaming products have such vague release dates. Its made in China and has to deal with the issues caused by that.

Stuff that gets made elsewhere usually has much firmer release dates.

16 minutes ago, BadMotivator said:

I think a big reason they have vague release dates is because they make most of their product in China. Chinese manufacturing timetables are... dodgy. And often comes down to how much you're willing to pay to get moved to the front of the line.

That uncertainty is a big factor in why a lot of gaming products have such vague release dates. Its made in China and has to deal with the issues caused by that.

Stuff that gets made elsewhere usually has much firmer release dates.

This. Things FFG can't control: Factory schedules. Which as they are in China, run the gamut from input issues, labor issues, inspection issues, getting booted for higher priority product issues...any number of things that FFG can't control and largely are at the mercy of the factory once the order is placed. Then there's shipping, both from the factory to port and on the ship. Customs at either end might hold you up. Then you throw in the recent issue of US/China trade wars and tariff issues, and who knows what kind of hold-up that might involve. A container flagged for the US might just end up sitting waiting for inspection forever.

Finally there's actual shipping, which might take a couple weeks, or maybe more. Followed by aforementioned customs inspection in the US, where, again, who knows what the current tariff posture might be doing to containers flagged from China.

Point being, there's a ton of things totally out of FFG's control that fluctuate and are hard to predict.

Could all that be fixed with fully domestic production? Sure, but our games would likely cost 4x what they do today.

FFG puts out a preview article and I go "Oh cool! They are releasing unit X for legion!" then I go back to my life. Time passes and I go to the game store and unit X is on the shelf and I go "Oh cool! There is unit X!" then I buy it. Works pretty well for me. But then again, I have kids, a job, pets, other games to play, other hobbies to put time into, fish to catch...

25 minutes ago, kingbobb said:

Could all that be fixed with fully domestic production? Sure, but our games would likely cost 4x what they do today.

Lots of other games are/were made in the UK and US and aren't that expensive. It's persistent myth that producing things outside of China is ruinously expensive. We're paying $30 for a box of 7 plastic guys. If you don't think there's an awful lot of wiggle room in that pricing I got a bridge to sell you. The Rendra factory in the UK produces "hard" plastic models of higher quality than Legion for a fraction of the cost. Even accounting for licensing fees and scale differences, Legion could keep costs competitive and make them in not-China. Whether or not they have the cash up front to make a big switch and invest in a bunch of new machines and stuff is another story!

Personally I'm surprised that making them in China hasn't already resulted in Legion knock-offs cropping up all over web.

12 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

Lots of other games are/were made in the UK and US and aren't that expensive. It's persistent myth that producing things outside of China is ruinously expensive. We're paying $30 for a box of 7 plastic guys. If you don't think there's an awful lot of wiggle room in that pricing I got a bridge to sell you. The Rendra factory in the UK produces "hard" plastic models of higher quality than Legion for a fraction of the cost. Even accounting for licensing fees and scale differences, Legion could keep costs competitive and make them in not-China. Whether or not they have the cash up front to make a big switch and invest in a bunch of new machines and stuff is another story!

Personally I'm surprised that making them in China hasn't already resulted in Legion knock-offs cropping up all over web.

Legion is too recent of a game and its prices aren't that bad. Warhammer 40k/AoS, on the other hand, have been around for years and has become much more expensive (and if you add Forge World to the equation...), so knock-offs are popular

55 minutes ago, Vector Strike said:

Legion is too recent of a game and its prices aren't that bad. Warhammer 40k/AoS, on the other hand, have been around for years

That's true. Also some of the knock-offs have moved more into what I'd call bootlegs, if we were talking toy collecting. Bootlegs being made to fill actual consumer demand that licensed products cannot or will not meet. This is what is happening more and more with popular older GW metal figures that GW refuses to sell.

So whereas we call weapons made to trick collectors of original Kenner figs "counterfit", we call shoddy stormtroopers meant to sell to kids in countries that couldn't legally import Kenner products, "bootleg". A lot of the GW stuff is getting more into that territory. I once accidentally bought a pile of counterfeit Valhallan Imperial Guard from Russian re-casters. The only way I caught them was, they made a nominal improvement to one sculpt. Collector prices are getting so high on ye olde metal, that it's worth setting up a casting shop and cutting a good mold from a really pristine, early casting. Crazy.

It would be nice to know a release date for say the clones starter set and other items a month in advance

If they made their products in the US instead of China I think that would help. Gotta remember the tariff war being fought right now has an impact on stuff that FFG deals with.

23 minutes ago, TWOyourDEATH522 said:

If they made their products in the US instead of China I think that would help. Gotta remember the tariff war being fought right now has an impact on stuff that FFG deals with.

Agreed

8 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

Those people are probably buying one of the myriad of other war games out there that better fits their interests. The entire draw of Legion IS the Star Wars IP. The reason folks stay is because of gameplay/mechanics, not the reason to start.

I came for the models.

I stayed for the models.

FFG: We will be implementing your thoughtful and novel suggestion in Q2 2040. Thank you. 🙄

22 hours ago, TWOyourDEATH522 said:

If they made their products in the US instead of China I think that would help. Gotta remember the tariff war being fought right now has an impact on stuff that FFG deals with.

It would but people would likely balk at the increase in prices.

On 8/28/2019 at 9:38 AM, joewrightgm said:

Lots of good points here. But, here’s the thing: another game company that I play their game (not GW), that is direct competition for my money with FFG, is a small(ish) game company, across the world, and they have been able to (within the last year, they’ve had their share of issues) provide release windows narrowed to the week.

So for example, they say this will be available first week in September, mid September, last week of September. This not only allows them some ‘slop’ if things get pushed around a day or so, but also let me plan stuff out.

Why are you not naming the game you're referring to?

On 8/28/2019 at 2:12 PM, TWOyourDEATH522 said:

If they made their products in the US instead of China I think that would help. Gotta remember the tariff war being fought right now has an impact on stuff that FFG deals with.

For better or worse the US is doesn't have the manufacturing mojo that it used to... Chinese tooling tech is above and beyond what most American manufacturing is capable of.

Plus there's the whole international market; making things in the US is fine for Americans but doesn't result in anything more convenient for the rest of the world.

15 hours ago, ScottieATF said:

Why are you not naming the game you're referring to?

Not sure how militant FFG mods would be about me talking about smaller companies eating their lunch.

12 hours ago, joewrightgm said:

Not sure how militant FFG mods would be about me talking about smaller companies eating their lunch.

Yeah but by not doing so people can't assess the accuracy of what your saying. Because we don't know what you're referencing.

You could be making an apples to apples comparison or an apples to tomatoes comparison. We as third parties can't respond to either agree with or rebut your comparison because we have near zero context to work from.

Like where do they make products at. What's the price point. What's the scale of their production. What's the reach of their distribution. Etc.

42 minutes ago, ScottieATF said:

Yeah but by not doing so people can't assess the accuracy of what your saying. Because we don't know what you're referencing.

You could be making an apples to apples comparison or an apples to tomatoes comparison. We as third parties can't respond to either agree with or rebut your comparison because we have near zero context to work from.

Like where do they make products at. What's the price point. What's the scale of their production. What's the reach of their distribution. Etc.

I'm referencing new Zealand based Battlefront no iatures; their reach is global, they do 15mm w w2 and cold war gone hot miniatures. They been in the hard plastic game for a while, and their factory is in malaysia.

they had a sporty track record until the last two years,.where they've been able accurately get product places on time. The y basically have a month where they focus on an army and book, then get product out to support it in a month-month and a half release window.