35 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I disagree. Don't think of it as a reposition to get a better shot. Think of it to be in a better spot for next turn.

In my experience, I've found that the average blues on the Viper actually give you less positioning option for the following turn. They aren't bad, but compared to the maneuverability of the whites and boost or barrel roll, the Virago boost limits you.

Compared to Soulless One that gives two Hull and a reroll for 6 points, it seems overcosted, but I think that is because Soulless One should be 8 at least. Dropping Virago by 1 or 2 should be fine to match, especially because the extra mod comes with its own cost. It's like a talent slot on an I3 generic versus an I2 without a talent. The talent cost already has a bit of cost built in, so it should not cost much more at all for the jump to the next initiative level.

59 minutes ago, Vector Strike said:

Virago is number 115. It only shows relative success in Boba/Guri* lists (and probably just to give +1 shield or hull upgrade). I believe that an upgrade used in just one list archetype isn't a really competitive one.

There are several reasons that Virago is 115 on the Upgrade list:
There is only One real pilot that can use it. Look at Guri sitting at 85 on the Pilot's listing....
No One wants to put Virago on a Generic Viper because that makes an average piece Vastly more expensive, and it is dubious-at-best on the other named Vipers (who are average-at-best pieces themselves). Dropping Virago's points will not change that, because the best user of it gets more out of it than the others. If you then increase the points of the best user of it to counteract, you get the equally odd situation that you don't see that particular pilot unless it has the title. Guri currently doesn't need Virago... but Virago needs Guri, and points will not change that in any meaningful way.
Also, it is a Title. It is meant to be special/unique and not that common. Black One is rated significantly higher because it is a lot easier to use T70s than it is to use Star Vipers, and there are multiple good options for that particular title (Poe and Nien Nunb both are Fantastic with it, Ello Asty can also pull off some silly things with it).
There are Lots of upgrades in the game, and so titles generally will filter down the list because more accessible upgrades will generally rise to the top (such as the Talent and Configuration upgrades that multiple ships can take).
Other Really Good Titles that are way down on that list:
- Slave One sits at 79th "best" upgrade, but switching directions at the right time is absolute gold.
- Andrasta gives Emon Azzameen All Of The Bombs to throw with reckless abandon, but sits at 117, just above...
- the possibly slightly overcosted Marauder title at 118
- Outrider is a Fantastic title... but the problem is that it is on the premium/difficult-to-justify-its-points chassis of the YT2400, and so sits down at 191.
- IG2000 title is practically Mandatory for flying with IGs... but people aren't flying them much/well at the moment, so they languish at 141 on the list.

@thespaceinvader
"The combo potential is with collision detector, where it can allow you to boost off an ignored obstacle before you stop ignoring it."

...
When you point it out like that, it seems so obvious.

35 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Just a thought, but would there be any benefit for allowing an ace to get into position to block next turn, or avoid being blocked?

I think this is the best use of the title. You can boost to block a k-turn that otherwise might end up being behind you after you move.

2 hours ago, JJ48 said:

Are named titles really all meant to be for generics, though? You think Xizor just hands the keys to every random mook in his organization?

Well, people use Soulless One with other Belbullab pilots and Havoc (Scurrg title) is ok with non-Nym pilots.

2 hours ago, JJ48 said:

Why? If it's 1 recurring, why base it on charges at all?

Hmm yes, with an action there wouldn't be any need for charges. The point of my comment was to use the boost more than twice per game. That would probably justify 10p

1 minute ago, Vector Strike said:

Well, people use Soulless One with other Belbullab pilots and Havoc (Scurrg title) is ok with non-Nym pilots.

Yes, some titles are (though personally, I haven't really seen many generic Belbullabs in the first place), but my point was, does every upgrade need to work well with every pilot who can field it legally? Some pairings are simply better than others.

I've tried it, the best use I've found for the Virago ability is for disengaging or setting up a new engagement. You can use the boost at the end of the round to set up your disengage route if you get Guri into a bad spot and/or using the boost when she is clear of enemy fire and you know that you are planning for a blue maneuver on the next round anyways.

Really, if I take Virago it's so I can fit 2 extra shields on Guri to toughen her up a bit more to make her a stronger end game piece. There is a case for the expensive ace archetype, you can get her up to 104 points with the title, shield, afterburners, adv sensors, and outmaneuver. That still leaves the torp slot open. It's not my style but some people like it.

2 hours ago, JJ48 said:

Just a thought, but would there be any benefit for allowing an ace to get into position to block next turn, or avoid being blocked?

It would be good to avoid being blocked if ace didn't have advanced sensors. Which the typical build for any SV "ace" pretty much always includes. Leaving yourself stress free to AS a boost or barrel roll later, with more information, is almost always the correct choice. The idea of boosting during the end phase to block something that moves before you is nice... but rarely, in my experience at least, worthwhile. Because, even if you do guess correctly and block that other ship, you then are stressed and unable to turn around quickly enough to capitalize on the situation. Sure, you might have other ships in position to do so, but that adds another layer of complexity to the situation and makes it more unlikely that it will ever be the best choice. I'm not saying it will always be bad, but I think it will very rarely be good.

3 hours ago, Bort said:

The thing is, the boost from the title is in the End Phase, so after shooting. It's not nearly the same as having double reposition options to line up a shot.

It truly is a bad re-position option, because it projects what you intend to do next turn. (Both in direction, and forcing a blue move on yourself)

It’s a re-position option for when you’ve Adv Sensored during your activation. It does telegraph your next move a bit, but with 7 blue maneuvers and a squirrely ship like the Starviper, that’s not really much of an issue. Certainly no worse than the turns you’ve taken an S-Loop.

On a complete side note, The Virago title also allows the Starviper to be stupidly survivable. My Phat Guri build gives her Virago, Shield Upgrade, and Hull Upgrade. Yeah it costs a crap ton, ringing in at 102 points with Elusive and Adv Sensors. But 5 hull, 3 shields, for 8 total health behind 3 greens and banked barrel-rolls, and the most unpredictable ship in the game? Eat your ******* heart out, Tie Defender.

Thanks for the responses. I was just curious if people actually find themselves using the red boost as i never have. Seems like no one really uses the red boost but just uses the title for extra sheilds/hull.

I’ve used it to some good effect. It really is meant for collision detector. It is a twice a game IDGAF about obstacles which can really open things. Dropping into the middle of a rock, being obstructed for defense but not attack, then boosting off end phase to set up next turn?

Extremely powerful if you do it well. Not important every game, but on average I use 1 charge. Some games both. But it has a higher skill ceiling and lower floor than Advanced Sensors so you don’t see it.

4 hours ago, MidWestScrub said:

It would be good to avoid being blocked if ace didn't have advanced sensors. Which the typical build for any SV "ace" pretty much always includes. Leaving yourself stress free to AS a boost or barrel roll later, with more information, is almost always the correct choice. The idea of boosting during the end phase to block something that moves before you is nice... but rarely, in my experience at least, worthwhile. Because, even if you do guess correctly and block that other ship , you then are stressed and unable to turn around quickly enough to capitalize on the situation. Sure, you might have other ships in position to do so, but that adds another layer of complexity to the situation and makes it more unlikely that it will ever be the best choice. I'm not saying it will always be bad, but I think it will very rarely be good.

Just wanted to point out that it is impossible to “guess correctly” with virago, since the other player gets to pick their maneuver after you’ve repositioned.

12 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

Just wanted to point out that it is impossible to “guess correctly” with virago, since the other player gets to pick their maneuver after you’ve repositioned.

Indeed. Good point.

21 hours ago, JJ48 said:

(though personally, I haven't really seen many generic Belbullabs in the first place)

There's one big reason: $$$

Belbullabs are real-world expensive... buying solitary Beebs off of eBay is kind of the only way.

21 hours ago, JJ48 said:

...but my point was, does every upgrade need to work well with every pilot who can field it legally? Some pairings are simply better than others.

Agreed.