So I am currently rather frustrated with Hyperspace Migration as a new Objective:

Purrgils move minimum distance 1 to max distance 2 towards the other obj token but cannot move to overlap ships/other obstacles etc. If they cannot move the full distance they move as far as they can. As result, you would likely always place the 2 objective tokens close to your deployment side. It is now easy to deploy some of your ships in such a way that the purrgils will never be able to move across them, see the following Vassal scenario (using dust clouds instead of purgills as they are supposedly close in size):

The Purrgil cannot move across the ships that only have to park there to farm 60 points every second round - 180 overall. A life boat and two flotillas, that leaves room for all sorts of "fun" Sloane, BTA ISD, MMJ shenanigangs or similar on top of the farm engine to block any ships that attempt to close in fast. If anyone gets close, speed 1 or 2 on the ships is still slow enough to escort the purgills the last few rounds. Enemies would have to close in very fast and recklessly to attempt to mitigate this farm engine and such straight approaches are usually easily headed of. Maybe Raddus could do something, but even then, if you know where Raddus is coming and have squads its not that much of an issue. Also obstacles can be placed to create a sort of screen for the farm.

I mean, this is just silly, no? I am tempted to say the most stupid imbalanced objective so far. I assume this got playtested .. what happened there? Am I misunderstanding something?

Cheers

3 minutes ago, RapidReload said:

So I am currently rather frustrated with Hyperspace Migration as a new Objective:

Purrgils move minimum distance 1 to max distance 2 towards the other obj token but cannot move to overlap ships/other obstacles etc. If they cannot move the full distance they move as far as they can. As result, you would likely always place the 2 objective tokens close to your deployment side. It is now easy to deploy some of your ships in such a way that the purrgils will never be able to move across them, see the following Vassal scenario (using dust clouds instead of purgills as they are supposedly close in size):

The Purrgil cannot move across the ships that only have to park there to farm 60 points every second round - 180 overall. A life boat and two flotillas, that leaves room for all sorts of "fun" Sloane, BTA ISD, MMJ shenanigangs or similar on top of the farm engine to block any ships that attempt to close in fast. If anyone gets close, speed 1 or 2 on the ships is still slow enough to escort the purgills the last few rounds. Enemies would have to close in very fast and recklessly to attempt to mitigate this farm engine and such straight approaches are usually easily headed of. Maybe Raddus could do something, but even then, if you know where Raddus is coming and have squads its not that much of an issue. Also obstacles can be placed to create a sort of screen for the farm.

I mean, this is just silly, no? I am tempted to say the most stupid imbalanced objective so far. I assume this got playtested .. what happened there? Am I misunderstanding something?

Cheers

Close in fast and disrupt this farm mechanism.

or

If its really that horrible, pick a yellow or red.

I dunno, but I *like* it...game needs more objectives to keep us away from the 'all deathmatch, all the time' that X-Wing is.

I mean, let's talk about Surprise Attack with an Interdictor fielding GX-7 wells, eh? NO YOU DON'T MOVE YOUR FLAGSHIP FOR THREE TURNS. 😈

Hyperspace assault with Demolisher? Or the old classic, TRC90 MSU with opening salvo? Etc.

Being able to win entirely off the objective is definitely one of the core strengths of the game.

2 minutes ago, xanderf said:

I mean, let's talk about Surprise Attack with an Interdictor fielding GX-7 wells, eh? NO YOU DON'T MOVE YOUR FLAGSHIP FOR THREE TURNS. 😈

Comms Net says I do. Also the station is not that far away from the edge. I dont mind that obj.

2 minutes ago, xanderf said:

Hyperspace assault with Demolisher? Or the old classic, TRC90 MSU with opening salvo? Etc.

Those arent really a thing.

9 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

If its really that horrible, pick a yellow or red.

"This is not the game design you are looking for".

Most obj have at least some way for a first player with a suitable list to deal with them. Here you have to:

"Fly through 6 proxy mines, other obstacles, and past my BTA ISD with MMJ and ****.

Could have just made a blue obj tht says: You cannot take this obj. Even Sensor Net was somewhat ok for first player with strategic squads.

23 minutes ago, RapidReload said:

Comms Net says I do. Also the station is not that far away from the edge. I dont mind that obj.

Those arent really a thing.

"This is not the game design you are looking for".

Most obj have at least some way for a first player with a suitable list to deal with them. Here you have to:

"Fly through 6 proxy mines, other obstacles, and past my BTA ISD with MMJ and ****.

Could have just made a blue obj tht says: You cannot take this obj. Even Sensor Net was somewhat ok for first player with strategic squads.

It’s up to you to consider a way... that’s all. Sometimes we wait on game evolution itself to do so.

if the upcoming Onager is able to shoot beyond long as stated - there’s a BIIIG incentive to not move slowly..

15 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

if the upcoming Onager is able to shoot beyond long as stated - there’s a BIIIG incentive to not move slowly..

Yes, that might solve it a little.

My idea was to just say that obj tokens and purrgils couldnt be placed within range 3 of the long deployment edges.

Cheers

53 minutes ago, xanderf said:

I mean, let's talk about Surprise Attack with an Interdictor fielding GX-7 wells, eh? NO YOU DON'T MOVE YOUR FLAGSHIP FOR THREE TURNS. 😈

What are you talking about?

You deploy on the station with speed 0 due to GX-7 and get a Nav raid token turn 1 to 3.

You need to have a nav command turn one and two and you get to move an turn two. Turn 1 you tokanize the nav dial and turn 2 you spend the nav token to get rid of the nav raid token and use the nav dial as normal. Turn 2 you start to move. No staying still for 3 turns. Just for 1

59 minutes ago, RapidReload said:

I mean, this is just silly, no? I am tempted to say the most stupid imbalanced objective so far. I assume this got playtested .. what happened there? Am I misunderstanding something?

You mean, like Fire Lanes and Sensor Net with 2 VCX + FCT and Tallon? Or Contested Outpost with double ISD? Superior Position and Fighter Ambush with Squadrons against a list without any? Advanced Gunnery with a SSD who has no Gunnery Team?

It is the same with many missions. There are good matchups against it and there are bad ones.
Hyperspace Migration can backfire really quick, when there is a SSD on the other side. Who will just go in and kill these 3 ships. Heck, even a Liberty can be in there in turn 2. And you might only get victory tokens in turn 2. That`'s it.
I really find this mission not more annoying than any other.

@Aresius was using 2 VCX and no Gunnery Team on his Liberty at the Euros. I knew exactly what missions he will have (at least i knew two, the last was a 50/50 between Sensor Net and Intel Sweep), and you don't want to be first player against this. It is already possible to be second player, it is just that the missions and fleets are a bit limited for this.

I find it good that the second player finally get rewarded with good missions. Currently everyone is bidding for the first player, and the bonus for the second is minimal. With this new missions the second player is the one that can wait for sure, and the first will have to be way more active.

8 minutes ago, LordCola said:

What are you talking about?

You deploy on the station with speed 0 due to GX-7 and get a Nav raid token turn 1 to 3.

You need to have a nav command turn one and two and you get to move an turn two. Turn 1 you tokanize the nav dial and turn 2 you spend the nav token to get rid of the nav raid token and use the nav dial as normal. Turn 2 you start to move. No staying still for 3 turns. Just for 1

So you're assuming I didn't bring slicer tools, then?

10 minutes ago, LordCola said:

What are you talking about?

You deploy on the station with speed 0 due to GX-7 and get a Nav raid token turn 1 to 3.

You need to have a nav command turn one and two and you get to move an turn two. Turn 1 you tokanize the nav dial and turn 2 you spend the nav token to get rid of the nav raid token and use the nav dial as normal. Turn 2 you start to move. No staying still for 3 turns. Just for 1

*cough* " Hondo "... 😁 . Or Thrawn , works fine as well.
A SSD might be a danger for the flagship, but because you are first player, you have two turns to get out of range, or in range if you want. And You will have your Speed 2 (or even more) at this time.

Heck, you could even ignore the mission totally. A Corvus Flagship will totally ruin the Surprise Attack 😉

1 hour ago, xanderf said:

I mean, let's talk about Surprise Attack with an Interdictor fielding GX-7 wells, eh? NO YOU DON'T MOVE YOUR FLAGSHIP FOR THREE TURNS. 😈

Well, you maybe not, but i will 😁

10 minutes ago, xanderf said:

So you're assuming I didn't bring slicer tools, then?

You are not first player, so your options are a bit limited 😉
And second: Look above. Hondo, Thrawn, Comms Net, Corvus will all allow the flagship to get out. So does quite a lot of other cards as well, but these are not so common.

12 minutes ago, Tokra said:

And second: Look above. Hondo, Thrawn, Comms Net, Corvus will all allow the flagship to get out. So does quite a lot of other cards as well, but these are not so common.

There are options, sure, but almost all provide negatives that I'm happy to exploit. I mean...Thrawn? He's only GOT 3 dials, and you're stuck burning 1/3 of those on turn 1 in order to avoid destruction? Okay, I'll take nerfing 1/3 of Thrawn as a starting move, sure. Ditto some of the other options - they can be nearly game-defining powerful (especially for their cost) if used at the right moment, and having to burn one just to deal with an objective start? This is not bad (and most don't help the remainder of the fleet with their speed limitations, anyway).

I think we're going to see some really interesting lists building off that objective - and ditto the OP's objective of note.

Which, I mean... that's Armada , right? This ain't X-Wing. We aren't playing to destroy the enemy fleet, only. We're playing to objectives . MOAR PLS!

42 minutes ago, xanderf said:

Which, I mean... that's Armada , right? This ain't X-Wing. We aren't playing to destroy the enemy fleet, only. We're playing to objectives . MOAR PLS!

Me too. This is why i don't think that Hyperspace Migration will be such a big problem. Good and strong`? Yes. But overpowered? No.

2 hours ago, RapidReload said:

So I am currently rather frustrated with Hyperspace Migration as a new Objective:

Purrgils move minimum distance 1 to max distance 2 towards the other obj token but cannot move to overlap ships/other obstacles etc. If they cannot move the full distance they move as far as they can. As result, you would likely always place the 2 objective tokens close to your deployment side. It is now easy to deploy some of your ships in such a way that the purrgils will never be able to move across them, see the following Vassal scenario (using dust clouds instead of purgills as they are supposedly close in size):

The Purrgil cannot move across the ships that only have to park there to farm 60 points every second round - 180 overall. A life boat and two flotillas, that leaves room for all sorts of "fun" Sloane, BTA ISD, MMJ shenanigangs or similar on top of the farm engine to block any ships that attempt to close in fast. If anyone gets close, speed 1 or 2 on the ships is still slow enough to escort the purgills the last few rounds. Enemies would have to close in very fast and recklessly to attempt to mitigate this farm engine and such straight approaches are usually easily headed of. Maybe Raddus could do something, but even then, if you know where Raddus is coming and have squads its not that much of an issue. Also obstacles can be placed to create a sort of screen for the farm.

I mean, this is just silly, no? I am tempted to say the most stupid imbalanced objective so far. I assume this got playtested .. what happened there? Am I misunderstanding something?

Cheers

I don't think this will be a good objective for Imperial squad heavy or ISD lists.

1. It's better for broadside ships that can follow the Purrgil and still point their best arc at the enemy.

2. This is one of the only obstacles that cannot be grav-shifted. Ezra, however, will gladly take that Purrgil off your hands.

5 hours ago, Tokra said:

You mean, like Fire Lanes and Sensor Net with 2 VCX + FCT and Tallon? Or Contested Outpost with double ISD? Superior Position and Fighter Ambush with Squadrons against a list without any? Advanced Gunnery with a SSD who has no Gunnery Team?

As I mentioned in my post, first player can bring strategic and those can be contested. If you bring a double ISD you are already very weak to many other things. 2 Flotillas and a lifeboat or quasar or something are hardly a high price.

5 hours ago, Tokra said:

It is the same with many missions. There are good matchups against it and there are bad ones.
Hyperspace Migration can backfire really quick, when there is a SSD on the other side. Who will just go in and kill these 3 ships. Heck, even a Liberty can be in there in turn 2. And you might only get victory tokens in turn 2. That`'s it.

Thats exactly it, dont think there are good matchups against this. A Lib that charges in speed 4 against this may reach it at turn 2 ( maybe shoot at turn 3) , but its dead at that point anyway as it will be there alone.

I also thought of an SSD prior to posting but the thing cannot deploy overlappong obstacles, so you can somewhat block its options and head it off.

In my opinion this is a new level of obj, first player has absolutely no advantage, first player must rush to the very opposite edge to contest it, second player farms 180 points for free.

4 hours ago, Bertie Wooster said:

Ezra will take it off your hand

If he is there, he may move it a bit, hardly a great issue.

5 hours ago, Tokra said:

and you don't want to be first player against this. It is already possible to be second player, it is just that the missions and fleets are a bit limited for this.

Second player lists traditionally had their weaknesses as first player, now you can have a first player list with no bid that offers the opponent the choice between giving it first or playing as first against hxperspace migration, adv gunnery and some yellow.

My main issue with this obj at the current point in time is that it encourages boring gameplay (see SSD) , just sit at your end of the board and move 0 or 1 straight ahead until the enemy gets there, send in 3/4 of your fleet to head him off.

4 hours ago, Bertie Wooster said:

I don't think this will be a good objective for Imperial squad heavy or ISD lists.

1. It's better for broadside ships that can follow the Purrgil and still point their best arc at the enemy.

2. This is one of the only obstacles that cannot be grav-shifted. Ezra, however, will gladly take that Purrgil off your hands.

I also think you can have some fun with Strategic too. You can drag the first objective behind you if you want or move it away so other player doesn't get a useful Purgill. The destination objective can also be moved so that it keeps the Purgill in play for longer.

3 hours ago, RapidReload said:

9 hours ago, Tokra said:

You mean, like Fire Lanes and Sensor Net with 2 VCX + FCT and Tallon? Or Contested Outpost with double ISD? Superior Position and Fighter Ambush with Squadrons against a list without any? Advanced Gunnery with a SSD who has no Gunnery Team?

As I mentioned in my post, first player can bring strategic and those can be contested. If you bring a double ISD you are already very weak to many other things. 2 Flotillas and a lifeboat or quasar or something are hardly a high price.

It seems you have not understand what i mean. It was not about the Hyperspace Migration or ways to counter it. It was about objective that already exist, that you just cannot pick against special setups. Hyperspace Migration is nothing new.
Have you ever picked first player against someone with 2 VCX (maybe as well with Adar Tallon), 6 activations, MC80 Liberty for combat? All of these 3 missions will really hurt you, and will win the game for the second player.

3 hours ago, RapidReload said:

My main issue with this obj at the current point in time is that it encourages boring gameplay (see SSD) , just sit at your end of the board and move 0 or 1 straight ahead until the enemy gets there, send in 3/4 of your fleet to head him off.

Only good, that you have 3 objectives…
Your opponent does not have to take it. Only unexperienced player might do.

If you build up your list exactly for this mission, you might end in never playing it.

And, as some already said it, this is Armada, not X-Wing. You should play the missions, and not go in just for the fight. This is why i love it, that there will be more missions that give a bonus for the second player, and allowing him to play the mission.

2 hours ago, Tokra said:

It seems you have not understand what i mean. It was not about the Hyperspace Migration or ways to counter it. It was about objective that already exist, that you just cannot pick against special setups. Hyperspace Migration is nothing new.
Have you ever picked first player against someone with 2 VCX (maybe as well with Adar Tallon), 6 activations, MC80 Liberty for combat? All of these 3 missions will really hurt you, and will win the game for the second player.

Only good, that you have 3 objectives…
Your opponent does not have to take it. Only unexperienced player might do.

If you build up your list exactly for this mission, you might end in never playing it.

And, as some already said it, this is Armada, not X-Wing. You should play the missions, and not go in just for the fight. This is why i love it, that there will be more missions that give a bonus for the second player, and allowing him to play the mission.

Well I thank you for responding and discussing. It seems to me we started to circle so I'll leave it as is.

I guess time will tell and Armada will survive in some form or the next.
But: Progress for the sake of progress must be discouraged - otherwise we very well might end up as did X-Wing :-p.

For me it's a good alternative to Solar Corona for some of my lists. Why? Mostly I will force the opponent to a place on the board where I want him to be. Contested Outpost and Hyperspace Migration are two similar missions to achieve this. The new missions fit in very well to several tactics and Hyperspace Migration is such a mission, where you put some pressure on the opponent (more than Solar Corona or Superior Positions does). I always struggle a bit in choosing my blue mission, now I have more options.

Honestly, with the number of fast moving ships, camping a few objectives will never be good. Things like a Demo+Harrow combo can move speed 3 the whole time. Drop an Onager with its 'beyond long range' as well and who knows. Its very likely they knew this would be the initial discussion until other things came out.

If the OP is really that afraid of this objective and can't figure out any possible way to beat it, pick the red or yellow objective instead.

That's why there's three objectives to choose from.

16 hours ago, RapidReload said:

The Purrgil cannot move across the ships that only have to park there to farm 60 points every second round - 180 overall.

A lot of people are misunderstanding how points-scoring in this objective works .

Step 1: turn objective tokens into victory tokens on surviving ships with them.
Step 2: grab objective tokens from whale-watching

The points-scoring is delayed for 1 round but it's not done on alternating rounds. You score points from having tokens and then grab new tokens in the same round.

9 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

The points-scoring is delayed for 1 round but it's not done on alternating rounds. You score points from having tokens and then grab new tokens in the same round.

Is it though?

There are two effects that take place at the same time so usually the player can decide in which order to execute them. I highlight "at the same time" because just above on the same card we see FFG imposing an order on effects that take pace at the same time.

Quote

Setup: Place obstacles as normal, excluding the station. Then the second player places 1 objective token in the play area at distance 1 of a 3' edge and another objective token at distance 1 of the opposite 3' edge.

FFG uses the "then" word to impose timing on effects that may otherwise occur at the same time. The way the "End of Round" effect is worded does not impose an order. So unless FFG issues a clarification or errata I would argue the scoring is not delayed by one turn

13 minutes ago, LordCola said:

Is it though?

There are two effects that take place at the same time so usually the player can decide in which order to execute them. I highlight "at the same time" because just above on the same card we see FFG imposing an order on effects that take pace at the same time.

FFG uses the "then" word to impose timing on effects that may otherwise occur at the same time. The way the "End of Round" effect is worded does not impose an order. So unless FFG issues a clarification or errata I would argue the scoring is not delayed by one turn

You resolve it in the order it is written. You cash in objective tokens for points, period, new sentence. You get new objective tokens. If we're not supposed to be resolving effects in the order they are written, then every card in this game just became extremely confusing.

6 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

If we're not supposed to be resolving effects in the order they are written, then every card in this game just became extremely confusing.

Really, which? Not trying to be a smart a*s, just genuinely can't think of one right now but someone will probably point out some really obvious ones.