3 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

I'd really rather she just be "a person". I've never understood the fanbase's obsession with limiting the pool of Force users to "the people we've already decided we like, and that's it."

I mean, pre-Order 66, there were TONS of people in the galaxy, from all walks of life that could use the Force. It wasn't a special thing unique to a handful of people, spread across the galaxy sized society, the numbers would be massive. They just never found all of them. So I find it just silly, and frankly stupid, to balk at the idea that "she's just another person, of potentially millions" that are Force sensitive, just like the millions of people before her. I mean, from a genetic viewpoint, you could say that O66 was the equivalent of...oh I don't know, targeting all Ginger's who also happen to have trained at Cirque du Soleil. That's NOT the same thing as "Killing all Ginger's that existed everywhere". And since the Gingers of the galaxy still exist, and are constantly being born, because the Force is created by LIFE ITSELF, the subsequent generations of Gingers can once again, find the ancient lost teachings of the Cirque du Soleil, and once again tumble and flip their way around the galaxy.

I just...I am baffled, flumoxed, even flabbergasted at the fanbase's insistence on tying EVERYTHING to everything that came before. "Bald guy that acts like a pimp? Must be Mace Windu!!" I mean, come on people.

The issue isnt that she needs to be special. The issue is the untrained force user badassness that causes people to want her tto be special. Luke required training. So that he could do stuff. Meanwhile Rey was doing so without training. If she were special it would make sense. If she isnt she kinda breaks the established lore.

6 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

I'd really rather she just be "a person". I've never understood the fanbase's obsession with limiting the pool of Force users to "the people we've already decided we like, and that's it."

I mean, pre-Order 66, there were TONS of people in the galaxy, from all walks of life that could use the Force. It wasn't a special thing unique to a handful of people, spread across the galaxy sized society, the numbers would be massive. They just never found all of them. So I find it just silly, and frankly stupid, to balk at the idea that "she's just another person, of potentially millions" that are Force sensitive, just like the millions of people before her. I mean, from a genetic viewpoint, you could say that O66 was the equivalent of...oh I don't know, targeting all Ginger's who also happen to have trained at Cirque du Soleil. That's NOT the same thing as "Killing all Ginger's that existed everywhere". And since the Gingers of the galaxy still exist, and are constantly being born, because the Force is created by LIFE ITSELF, the subsequent generations of Gingers can once again, find the ancient lost teachings of the Cirque du Soleil, and once again tumble and flip their way around the galaxy.

I just...I am baffled, flumoxed, even flabbergasted at the fanbase's insistence on tying EVERYTHING to everything that came before. "Bald guy that acts like a pimp? Must be Mace Windu!!" I mean, come on people.

It's not an issue of the "fan-base's obsession". The saga movies specifically are about the Skywalker family. It's their story, not the story of random individuals from across the galaxy. As such, the hero of any "Skywalker Saga" film needs to be a Skywalker.

I'm more worried about the red-eyed 3PO. I can't see many ways this is a good development. The best explanation I can think of is it's a humorous malfunction. The worst nightmare would be that they read the Dr. Aphra Comic and became aroused.

1 minute ago, Archlyte said:

I'm more worried about the red-eyed 3PO. I can't see many ways this is a good development. The best explanation I can think of is it's a humorous malfunction. The worst nightmare would be that they read the Dr. Aphra Comic and became aroused.

Red herring in my opinion.

On 8/27/2019 at 1:56 PM, Tramp Graphics said:

It's not an issue of the "fan-base's obsession". The saga movies specifically are about the Skywalker family. It's their story, not the story of random individuals from across the galaxy. As such, the hero of any "Skywalker Saga" film needs to be a Skywalker.

Kylo is a Skywalker, and for all we know Rey could be a clone from the cells of Luke’s hand.

On 8/27/2019 at 3:36 PM, Archlyte said:

I'm more worried about the red-eyed 3PO. I can't see many ways this is a good development. The best explanation I can think of is it's a humorous malfunction. The worst nightmare would be that they read the Dr. Aphra Comic and became aroused.

Maybe it’s C-3PX.

20 hours ago, Archlyte said:

I'm more worried about the red-eyed 3PO. I can't see many ways this is a good development. The best explanation I can think of is it's a humorous malfunction. The worst nightmare would be that they read the Dr. Aphra Comic and became aroused.

You sure do use a lot of sexual and fetishist terminology when discussing a comic you claim not to like.

Methinks thou doth protest too much. 😜

Someone on Twitter suggested Snap Wexley uploaded Mr Bones’ personality matrix into Threepio. (Similar to events in the Poe Dameron comic.) Chuck Wendig accepted the headcanon. 🤣

I suspect that 3PO will attempt to connect with the First Order databases in some way, like he's done in the past with the Falcon. He is a communication droid after all. And he's going to be temporarily taken over by their security systems, long enough for an "Oh crap!" moment from the heroes, followed by a screen wipe.

On 8/27/2019 at 9:56 PM, Tramp Graphics said:

It's not an issue of the "fan-base's obsession". The saga movies specifically are about the Skywalker family. It's their story, not the story of random individuals from across the galaxy. As such, the hero of any "Skywalker Saga" film needs to be a Skywalker.

Why do they have to be the hero? Kylo is definitely a main character. Plus Rey is pretty much an adopted Skywalker at this point; she had no parents, and has been 'parented' by Luke, Leia and Han (Skywalker-in-law).

E: I mean, that's pretty much the thrust of the sequel trilogy. Rey is more of a Skywalker than Kylo because like the other Skywalkers she started with nothing, learnt everything the family had to teach, and grew. Kylo doesn't *want* to learn how he can be a better person from his family past; he just wants to copy it and get the credit. When that doesn't work he wants to reject it. It's about how family and achievement is more than just having the right blood.

Watching the clip again, I wonder if it's a Superman III-style split.

On 8/27/2019 at 12:09 AM, Daeglan said:

What i have come to expect is bad storytelling.

Five'll get you ten, most moviegoers agree it's better than post-ROTJ Lucas. To be fair, yeah, Disney makes its fortunes on pretty-good.

5 hours ago, Talkie Toaster said:

Why do they have to be the hero? Kylo is definitely a main character. Plus Rey is pretty much an adopted Skywalker at this point; she had no parents, and has been 'parented' by Luke, Leia and Han (Skywalker-in-law).

E: I mean, that's pretty much the thrust of the sequel trilogy. Rey is more of a Skywalker than Kylo because like the other Skywalkers she started with nothing, learnt everything the family had to teach, and grew. Kylo doesn't *want* to learn how he can be a better person from his family past; he just wants to copy it and get the credit. When that doesn't work he wants to reject it. It's about how family and achievement is more than just having the right blood.

Becuase, as I said, the saga is about that family specifically. Anakin was the hero of the prequels. They were a tragedy in the classical sense, given that they were a story of his rise as a Jedi and fall to the Dark Side. The OT was the story of his son redeeming him. Luke was the hero seeking to save his father. The Skywalkers are the heroes of this saga. It's what the story is all about-- the Skywalkers vs Palpatine. It's about that bloodline.

Rian Johnson attempted to derail that dynamic through his "subversion of expectations" in TLJ, which didn't go over well with some fans.

1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Becuase, as I said, the saga is about that family specifically. Anakin was the hero of the prequels. They were a tragedy in the classical sense, given that they were a story of his rise as a Jedi and fall to the Dark Side. The OT was the story of his son redeeming him. Luke was the hero seeking to save his father. The Skywalkers are the heroes of this saga. It's what the story is all about-- the Skywalkers vs Palpatine. It's about that bloodline.

Rian Johnson attempted to derail that dynamic through his "subversion of expectations" in TLJ, which didn't go over well with some fans.

That is because subverting expectations require subverting with something better. Subverting with nothing is well bad writing.

4 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

That is because subverting expectations require subverting with something better. Subverting with nothing is well bad writing.

That's a matter of opinion. Regardless of Johnson's "subversions", I still enjoyed the movie.

2 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

That's a matter of opinion. Regardless of Johnson's "subversions", I still enjoyed the movie.

It's possible to enjoy badly written films. The prequels, for instance. 😃

2 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:

It's possible to enjoy badly written films. The prequels, for instance. 😃

😝

On 8/26/2019 at 11:36 PM, wilsch said:

Having spent the last four years gliding through the briny tears of deeply invested superfans, I suggest picking the simplest explanation (for whatever reason, this does not represent Rey) and coming out of the theater pleasantly surprised if I'm wrong.

I bottle them. I know there's a market but I can't stop drinking them all myself. Almost no calories, great taste!

A loooot of people seem to be overlooking what may be an important fact! This movie is called The Rise of Skywalker, and there's a vital Skywalker people tend to overlook!

This movie is C-3PO's big moment

10 hours ago, GroggyGolem said:

It's possible to enjoy badly written films. The prequels, for instance. 😃

B-grade horror movies are a long standing industry that far more often than not are badly written and can still be highly enjoyable to audiences. Heck, the Slasher Flicks of the 80's are a prime example of this, as after the initial films the quality of the scripts spiraled downwards quickly; then again, the writing wasn't why the audience was there watching Freddy/Jason/Mike/Chucky tear through whatever cast of hapless idiots got in their way.

15 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Becuase, as I said, the saga is about that family specifically. Anakin was the hero of the prequels. They were a tragedy in the classical sense, given that they were a story of his rise as a Jedi and fall to the Dark Side. The OT was the story of his son redeeming him. Luke was the hero seeking to save his father. The Skywalkers are the heroes of this saga. It's what the story is all about-- the Skywalkers vs Palpatine. It's about that bloodline.

Rian Johnson attempted to derail that dynamic through his "subversion of expectations" in TLJ, which didn't go over well with some fans.

I mean, midway through this post you switch from family to bloodline. I'd argue the two aren't the same. TFA & TLJ are 100% the story of the Skywalker family, and have more Skywalker characters in than any of the other films. Kylo rejects the Skywalkers, Rey embraces them. I'm not sure this is a subversion, so much as a fundamental difference in the idea of what family actually means if you consider family and bloodline synonymous.

7 hours ago, Underachiever599 said:

A loooot of people seem to be overlooking what may be an important fact! This movie is called The Rise of Skywalker, and there's a vital Skywalker people tend to overlook!

This movie is C-3PO's big moment

"I will have you know that I was killing Jedi in the pits of Genosis before your first meat sack was formed, step aside you incompetent meatbags, I will tell Kylo the odds!"


In all seriousness though, I still believe and always have believed Rey to be a clone of some sort. Kylo knew *exactly* the individual on that planet was based on a vague description of her, to the extent that it made him completely flip out more then losing the map that suggested he was somehow involved with her ex-communication. She also certainly isn't related to the skywalkers, unless they are going to pull one out of the preverbal back passage at the very last minute from Lukes tragic one off romance.

Yeah, I totally believe she's a "daughter" of the emperor. Only who she's related to literally doesn't matter, what lies in the heart is simply more important then family ties.

Aye, that's my one off statement of star wars, back to the batcave!

3 hours ago, Talkie Toaster said:

I mean, midway through this post you switch from family to bloodline. I'd argue the two aren't the same. TFA & TLJ are 100% the story of the Skywalker family, and have more Skywalker characters in than any of the other films. Kylo rejects the Skywalkers, Rey embraces them. I'm not sure this is a subversion, so much as a fundamental difference in the idea of what family actually means if you consider family and bloodline synonymous.

Indeed. A lot of our social and pop culture zeitgeist is not only strongly influenced by but explicitly references the concept of “found family.” From such disparate works as Buffy the Vampire Slayer (recall Buffy’s retort to Tara’s father’s assertion, “We’re blood.” Buffy: “We’re family.”) to Firefly (“But you don’t even like me.” “You’re on my crew. Why’re we still talkin’ about this?”) to The L Word to How I Met Your Mother to Guardians of the Galaxy and more, a lot of modern storytelling is making heavy use of the importance of the family one chooses.

8 hours ago, Talkie Toaster said:

I mean, midway through this post you switch from family to bloodline. I'd argue the two aren't the same. TFA & TLJ are 100% the story of the Skywalker family, and have more Skywalker characters in than any of the other films. Kylo rejects the Skywalkers, Rey embraces them. I'm not sure this is a subversion, so much as a fundamental difference in the idea of what family actually means if you consider family and bloodline synonymous.

4 hours ago, Nytwyng said:

Indeed. A lot of our social and pop culture zeitgeist is not only strongly influenced by but explicitly references the concept of “found family.” From such disparate works as Buffy the Vampire Slayer (recall Buffy’s retort to Tara’s father’s assertion, “We’re blood.” Buffy: “We’re family.”) to Firefly (“But you don’t even like me.” “You’re on my crew. Why’re we still talkin’ about this?”) to The L Word to How I Met Your Mother to Guardians of the Galaxy and more, a lot of modern storytelling is making heavy use of the importance of the family one chooses.

Yes, I am specifically referring to the blood family. The Skywalker blooodline, from Anakin, to Luke and Leia to the next generation. That is what the story has always been about.

24 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yes, I am specifically referring to the blood family. The Skywalker blooodline, from Anakin, to Luke and Leia to the next generation. That is what the story has always been about.

And, since all we can do is speculate. It can still be about that (biological) family without Rey specifically having to be part of that biology.

3 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

And, since all we can do is speculate. It can still be about that (biological) family without Rey specifically having to be part of that biology.

I disagree, particularly given that she's technically the hero of the sequels.

24 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yes, I am specifically referring to the blood family. The Skywalker blooodline, from Anakin, to Luke and Leia to the next generation. That is what the story has always been about.

Kylo is part of that bloodline. I don't recall any rule forcing the Skywalker involved in the story, to be the protagonist through the arc. In fact, Anakin proves quite succinctly that the Skywalker involved, can very much be the Villain/Antagonist. 2/3 of his movies (the Prequels) he was a hero/semi-hero, and his final movie he goes straight up Villain. I see no reason the new trilogy can't flip that, and have the Skywalker in question, spend 2/3 of the movies as the Villain, and then get redeemed by the end. This seems totally in keeping with the theme of Star Wars, and would be a nice mirror-reflection bookend for how things started with Anakin.

Just now, KungFuFerret said:

Kylo is part of that bloodline. I don't recall any rule forcing the Skywalker involved in the story, to be the protagonist through the arc. In fact, Anakin proves quite succinctly that the Skywalker involved, can very much be the Villain/Antagonist. 2/3 of his movies (the Prequels) he was a hero/semi-hero, and his final movie he goes straight up Villain. I see no reason the new trilogy can't flip that, and have the Skywalker in question, spend 2/3 of the movies as the Villain, and then get redeemed by the end. This seems totally in keeping with the theme of Star Wars, and would be a nice mirror-reflection bookend for how things started with Anakin.

Anakin was the hero of the prequels; a tragic hero who fell to darkness to become a villain at the end, but the hero none the less. He was the protagonist of that story, just as Luke was the protagonist of the OT, and Rey is the protagonist of the Sequels. So, yes, the protagonist of the saga is required to be a Skywalker by blood. That was set down by GL himself. And, given the sheer strength in the Force that Rey has (I'm talking full potential Anakin level strength here), that strongly supports her having Skywalker blood, whether that comes from her being an actual child of Luke or Leia, or, potentially, genetically engineered by Palpatine from cells taken from Luke's severed hand, or even from Anakin.