So with the obvious advantage that Kraken can offer as a Tactical relay, what are the thoughts of people on the 3 other options?

TV-94 is like a free hit for a calculate token with a bullseye shot, situational but can help two dice attacks punch up.

TA-175 certainly useful in a swarm like setting making it harder for a ship to be taken down, and the entire swarm hit harder after losing a ship. Somewhat like Sloane but not quite as effective perhaps.

K2-B4 having not dealt with strain as a mechanic since it arrived I honestly am not sure what to think about this effect. Are people really willing to take the strain to hit another ship or a bit harder?

Whats the deal on those Relays who arn’t named Kraken?

TA-175's deal is to be the correct choice, evidenced by who took it - several very good players who can be relied upon - and by metawing, where TA-175 is some places above Kraken and has a higher %.

TA-175 and Kraken are the only really good options - or, so to speak, have more uses. TA-175 is SUPERB in a swarm squadron... but I've noticed it works better if you have Initiative 1.

I've never had any desire to test the other 2. Spending Calculates to anything than changing eyes during your attack/defense seems counter-intuitive to me.

175 is very good, specifically with Sear.

The other two are mostly bad.

Be careful with the timing on 175. After Destroyed effects are supposed to trigger after a ship is removed. Depending on how many ships share initiative in a game he may not be as helpful as you'd like. That said, it sure can help against Aces.

I am not sold on any of the Relays, including Kraken. I'd rather get more Vultures and Ordnance Hyenas on the table than a ship that can carry a Tactical Relay. Yeah, I know Kraken lets you get 2 Calc tokens, but I'd rather do a TL and Calc with the DRK-1 probe.

As someone who's flown more Belbullabs than Vultures, Kraken is the only one I'd consider.

TV-94 literally does not function on my Bulb Buddys. The "only if you have 2 or fewer dice" part is really tough. Means it also won't work for Vultures at Range 1.

TA-175 really needs the right list. Low-initiative (shooting first kinda wrecks TA-175), and with large enough numbers. Sear + 4x Autopilot is the only Lots of Bubbles list where TA-175 would make sense, but I'm not sure if the points do... There's 6 points left once you put Soulless One on Sear, so maybe also Impervium, or maybe just taking Kraken instead. I'm not sure.

K2-B4 I flew against once. I have no idea whether it actually made a difference. The effect is so strange. Maybe it's good, though. Keeping Init 1 stuff alive to shoot is a huge damage boost over dead, and maybe the strain matters, helping to push damage through. But it's a dilemma mechanic, so hard to count on. Also, it'd necessarily spread out the strain, which means that it doesn't benefit the focus-fire strategy of a swarm.

2 hours ago, heychadwick said:

I am not sold on any of the Relays, including Kraken. I'd rather get more Vultures and Ordnance Hyenas on the table than a ship that can carry a Tactical Relay. Yeah, I know Kraken lets you get 2 Calc tokens, but I'd rather do a TL and Calc with the DRK-1 probe.

I mean, Kraken lets you Calc/Lock as well, if you take the lock normally.

Probes are cheaper, and it's easier to fit a bomb slot into a list, but I can totally envision lists where it makes more sense to Kraken than DRK-1. I think it's nice that there are two options, even if they aren't necessarily equal, since Probes don't always make sense.

10 hours ago, gamblertuba said:

Be careful with the timing on 175. After Destroyed effects are supposed to trigger after a ship is removed. Depending on how many ships share initiative in a game he may not be as helpful as you'd like. That said, it sure can help against Aces.

Hmm. I'm not sure that's accurate. From the "Destroyed" entry in the rules reference: "A ship is destroyed after it has a number of damage cards that equals or exceeds its hull value." It goes on to state, "If a ship is destroyed during the engagement phase, it is removed after all ships that have the same initiative as the currently engaged ship have engaged, which is called simultaneous fire." So a ship can be destroyed and stick around to shoot, but still grant the calculate tokens from TA-175. Seems pretty strong for the points.

17 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

Hmm. I'm not sure that's accurate. From the "Destroyed" entry in the rules reference: "A ship is destroyed after it has a number of damage cards that equals or exceeds its hull value." It goes on to state, "If a ship is destroyed during the engagement phase, it is removed after all ships that have the same initiative as the currently engaged ship have engaged, which is called simultaneous fire." So a ship can be destroyed and stick around to shoot, but still grant the calculate tokens from TA-175. Seems pretty strong for the points.

its this rule, specifically:

• If an effect triggers after a ship is destroyed, the effect resolves immediately before the ship is removed.

52 minutes ago, svelok said:

its this rule, specifically:

• If an effect triggers after a ship is destroyed, the effect resolves immediately before the ship is removed.

Touche. Well, that explains part of the reason it's only 5 points instead of Kraken's 10 points.

EDIT: All this talk about TA-175 started getting me excited about the prospect of buying into CIS. I mean, I adore low-initiative swarmy squads. But that little rules tidbit completely killed it for me. Glad it saves me the money.

It is useless against I1, when you play I1s and against I1-3 when you play I3s Vultures.

11 hours ago, heychadwick said:

I am not sold on any of the Relays, including Kraken. I'd rather get more Vultures and Ordnance Hyenas on the table than a ship that can carry a Tactical Relay. Yeah, I know Kraken lets you get 2 Calc tokens, but I'd rather do a TL and Calc with the DRK-1 probe.

8 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I mean, Kraken lets you Calc/Lock as well, if you take the lock normally

Am I missing something here? All the probe droid does it lets you measure range from the droid to get the TL? How are you getting both? Or are you discussing over multiple rounds in which case Kraken does the same thing in a different order?

15 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

TA-175's deal is to be the correct choice, evidenced by who took it - several very good players who can be relied upon - and by metawing, where TA-175 is some places above Kraken and has a higher %.

The question with 175 is always "What about the mirror?". People are definitely starting to key in on CIS actually being pretty good and in an all I1 fight, 175 literally does nothing. I'd also question the value of Kracken just because most Kracken lists use naked or virtually naked drones, so if you're dueling locked and calced drones backed up by a Diamond Boron Bak, you just lost that duel hard. So...how important is the mirror? Based on the rumblings I'm seeing, maybe more than most think...

1 minute ago, Ronu said:

Am I missing something here? All the probe droid does it lets you measure range from the droid to get the TL? How are you getting both? Or are you discussing over multiple rounds in which case Kraken does the same thing in a different order?

With Probe you can TL when you are out of range, then calc. When you calc with Kraken, then you are sometimes out of range before enemy moves.

1 minute ago, Ronu said:

Am I missing something here? All the probe droid does it lets you measure range from the droid to get the TL? How are you getting both? Or are you discussing over multiple rounds in which case Kraken does the same thing in a different order?

The order matters, because with thr DRK-1 ALL of your Vultures/Hyenas will have Locks before engagement. Next turn, you want yoiur Vultures with Calcs to shoot ESCs (and Hyenas with ESCs too). The order matters because, if you come with Calculates from the previous turn, only 3 ships will have them; if you Lock in the previous turn, all your ships will have Calculates - and, thus, letting all of them to shoot ESCs/double mod firing.

1 minute ago, Ronu said:

Am I missing something here? All the probe droid does it lets you measure range from the droid to get the TL? How are you getting both? Or are you discussing over multiple rounds in which case Kraken does the same thing in a different order?

Over multiple rounds. The DRK can be used as a charge based Experimental Scanners without the no range 1 limitation. Deploy it during the first End Phase then relocate it in the second Systems Phase. It should be close enough for the swarm to get their locks despite them not being in range to engage just yet. Following turn calculate.

13 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

The question with 175 is always "What about the mirror?".

but is that an important question? Or can you take the chance of 94% matchups where that won't be relevant? CIS is roughly 6% of the players, sometimes up to 8%. At that level I don't see the mirror as relevant question - even under the assumption that all CIS players would play the identical TA175 list.

14 minutes ago, Ronu said:

Am I missing something here? All the probe droid does it lets you measure range from the droid to get the TL?

Other folks got it with the Probe Droids.

Launch the probe early enough and fly the right way, and it can get out in front of your squad, and close-enough to the enemy. Done right, you can take locks on the enemy while they're pretty far away, and by the time they get close to you, you can also have taken Calculate actions.

It's not automatic, like Long Range Scanners were in 1e, or like Experimental Scanners on E-Wings in 2e, but not too hard. Best to just put it on the table and try to make it work.

18 minutes ago, Ronu said:

How are you getting both? Or are you discussing over multiple rounds in which case Kraken does the same thing in a different order?

Yep, over multiple turns. DRK-1 probes can help you get locks early, then you can take Calculates from then onwards. Kraken lets you take calculates early, then lock once you get close. Different order, but somewhat similar effects.

DRK-1 doesn't have an upper limit, but Kraken does stop at 3 cacluate tokens. Kraken-Calculate always works on anyone in range, but Probes have to be launched and relocated correctly. Tradeoffs.

43 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

but is that an important question? Or can you take the chance of 94% matchups where that won't be relevant? CIS is roughly 6% of the players, sometimes up to 8%. At that level I don't see the mirror as relevant question - even under the assumption that all CIS players would play the identical TA175 list.

TL:DR after scriming the mirror, it's actually hard to outplay it (CIS is about consistency), so having a specific gameplan for it is useful as long as it doesn't compromise other matchups

I took a CIS list to a recent hyperspace trial and did well until I had to fly against a CIS swarm two rounds in a row. I lost both since they both had a better alpha. You do need to start thinking about the mirror/ other CIS lists. They are starting to become more popular as people realize they can deal with Jedi quite easily.

12 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Other folks got it with the Probe Droids.

Launch the probe early enough and fly the right way, and it can get out in front of your squad, and close-enough to the enemy. Done right, you can take locks on the enemy while they're pretty far away, and by the time they get close to you, you can also have taken Calculate actions.

Just to let you know....as I am just figuring them out....try to launch them on Turn 1. They get launched at the end of the turn. Then, they move on the System Phase, before anyone moves or shoots. So....you should be able to get them close enough to grab a TL before they get shot. Just FYI as it took me a bit to figure that out.

I'm planning on taking a CIS list to a Hyperspace Trial in a few weeks and it's flying K2-B4. I'll have a more informed opinion after that. On the others:

Kraken - obviously the one you want to take for more effective mods. It's also the most straightforward of the abilities.

TA-175 - haven't tried it in any of my current CIS configurations.

TV-94 - seems like its best utility is with a Vulture swarm that closes fast and engages quickly - whatever form that takes.

In practice games, though, K2-B4 has actually proven useful, most particularly when my ships have whiffed their defensive rolls. More often than not, my opponent gave me the extra evade result rather than take the strain.

12 hours ago, Salsashark said:

I took a CIS list to a recent hyperspace trial and did well until I had to fly against a CIS swarm two rounds in a row. I lost both since they both had a better alpha. You do need to start thinking about the mirror/ other CIS lists. They are starting to become more popular as people realize they can deal with Jedi quite easily.

If you can keep pressure on any of the Jedi and force them to burn through their Force tokens more quickly, they become much easier to deal with. My local meta seems to be high in Republic squads, so we'll see how it works.

The worst thing about DRK-1 is that when facing ships with 4-5 straight and boost it's hard to TL before they fire at you and still be in a good position. And it is the best tactic against DRK-1 list. The second one is to move very slow and be out of range of drone even after 3+2 move and shoot it. But CSI player can then move drone to be out of range second turn after you move and catch you during third turn.

My favourite opening is to have DRK carrier in the middle at R1 from edge, 2K and drop with 3 bank, followed by 2 bank toward enemy ships. Then 2 hard with carrier to clear stress. At that time move your other ships near your edge of the table or 1 hard first turn if enemy ships are in the opposite corner.

8 minutes ago, Boreas Mun said:

The worst thing about DRK-1 is that when facing ships with 4-5 straight and boost it's hard to TL before they fire at you and still be in a good position. And it is the best tactic against DRK-1 list. The second one is to move very slow and be out of range of drone even after 3+2 move and shoot it. But CSI player can then move drone to be out of range second turn after you move and catch you during third turn.

My favourite opening is to have DRK carrier in the middle at R1 from edge, 2K and drop with 3 bank, followed by 2 bank toward enemy ships. Then 2 hard with carrier to clear stress. At that time move your other ships near your edge of the table or 1 hard first turn if enemy ships are in the opposite corner.

To me, this is why Probe Droids are great design. They aren't like other abilities where you can just lock anything you want at will. There's counterplay. There's potential for the CIS player to move their probes wrong.