The neat thing about Foresight is you can use it as your normal attack during engagement in addition to the bonus attack, and it gives you a free focus mod when you do so. Are generic Jedi any good with with Foresight at 42 points? You can do the bonus attack at range 1-3, and then still perform the Foresight attack during the engagement phase and get a free soft-focus mod on 2 dice and deny range 3 bonus and have a focus token for defense.

16 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

The neat thing about Foresight is you can use it as your normal attack during engagement in addition to the bonus attack, and it gives you a free focus mod when you do so. Are generic Jedi any good with with Foresight at 42 points? You can do the bonus attack at range 1-3, and then still perform the Foresight attack during the engagement phase and get a free soft-focus mod on 2 dice and deny range 3 bonus and have a focus token for defense.

It has potential. Maybe not loads though, bullseye is not a common occurrence for lower Init vs higher Init. If that's the only trick the list has, it might struggle, in numerous match ups, it's just not going to happen.

Certainly worth testing still, it's priced to not need building around too much. In occasional match ups, it'll tear things apart.

36 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

The neat thing about Foresight is you can use it as your normal attack during engagement in addition to the bonus attack, and it gives you a free focus mod when you do so. Are generic Jedi any good with with Foresight at 42 points? You can do the bonus attack at range 1-3, and then still perform the Foresight attack during the engagement phase and get a free soft-focus mod on 2 dice and deny range 3 bonus and have a focus token for defense.

I think it is better on Inquisitor for 3 points less and you can fit 5 of them.

44 minutes ago, Boreas Mun said:

I think it is better on Inquisitor for 3 points less and you can fit 5 of them.

It's definitely nice on an Inquisitor. a 5 point initiative bid isn't great but gives you a nice touch against other I3 squads (and may help ensure you get to shoot before full throttle triggers), and yes, if you can bullseye someone at range 3, you can get an attack which ignores range defence bonus (a big deal for 2-dice primaries!) but also don't need to spend your focus offensively - and agility 3 ships able to hold their focus to use defensively love a range 3 fight.

Meanwhile, in close, linked boosts, blue speed 1 turns and massed modified snap-fire sounds potentially terrifying. Sabre-dancing around a crossfire from five inquisitors is a heck of an ask, and double-tapping ships, even with 2-dice attacks, can chop up low-agility ships very fast.

It just makes for an incredibly flexible ship. Agility 3 with force/evade when in trouble, either force/lock or double-tap when on the offensive, potential to fight at range 2 or 3 effectively, and with the ability to arc-dodge incredibly well.

5 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

It's definitely nice on an Inquisitor. a 5 point initiative bid isn't great but gives you a nice touch against other I3 squads (and may help ensure you get to shoot before full throttle triggers), and yes, if you can bullseye someone at range 3, you can get an attack which ignores range defence bonus (a big deal for 2-dice primaries!) but also don't need to spend your focus offensively - and agility 3 ships able to hold their focus to use defensively love a range 3 fight.

Meanwhile, in close, linked boosts, blue speed 1 turns and massed modified snap-fire sounds potentially terrifying. Sabre-dancing around a crossfire from five inquisitors is a heck of an ask, and double-tapping ships, even with 2-dice attacks, can chop up low-agility ships very fast.

It just makes for an incredibly flexible ship. Agility 3 with force/evade when in trouble, either force/lock or double-tap when on the offensive, potential to fight at range 2 or 3 effectively, and with the ability to arc-dodge incredibly well.

I think Foresight is DoA

• opportunity cost potentially comparable to or greater than benefit
• requires ||, is ordinance
  • best benefit is R3, where || is least likely
  • no range bonus at R1, where || is much more likely, and you are also more likely to need double tokens for regular attack/defense
• little/no ability to choose target

One too many value throttles for a 4pt investment, drop price to 2pts and I think we'd have a decent upgrade

16 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

Is Kestal on the list? She can mod defence dice. Only once ofc, and only after focussing, so it's hardly worth it, but still.

I have tried to make Kestal function in oh, so many ways, to no avail. I'm ready to say Snap Shot will do nothing to improve her performance. It's sad to me too, since I really like her as a pilot; the ag chassis is just abysmal though.

32 minutes ago, prauxim said:

I think Foresight is DoA

DoA is something I wait to declare until after people have tried it on the table. I'm always looking forward to that surprise upset.

I'm interested in how Inquisitor swarms will do. They're already potent in the meta -- see Inq + Jendon fleets. When swarming bullseye effects they tend to get that bullseye quite often, especially when the split up a bit to cover a large area. And it's true that higher-PS ships can dodge the bullseye, but there's a cost to doing that. As with avoiding snap shot, I want to see how that works out.

IMO we'll know in a week or two whether it's dead or dancing.

Inquisitor (35)
Foresight (4)
Fire-Control System (2)
Concussion Missiles (6)

Ship total: 47 Half Points: 24 Threshold: 2

Inquisitor (35)
Foresight (4)
Fire-Control System (2)
Concussion Missiles (6)

Ship total: 47 Half Points: 24 Threshold: 2

Inquisitor (35)
Foresight (4)
Fire-Control System (2)
Cluster Missiles (5)

Ship total: 46 Half Points: 23 Threshold: 2

Colonel Jendon (46)
Darth Vader (14)

Ship total: 60 Half Points: 30 Threshold: 5


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v8ZsZ200Z171X251W113W99Y171X251W113W99Y171X251W113W98Y167XWW26WWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

8 minutes ago, Wazat said:

DoA is something I wait to declare until after people have tried it on the table. I'm always looking forward to that surprise upset.

I played 2 game with it in my trip Jedi list before points assuming it was 2pts. I felt like its was slightly better than other options that aren't R2 and worse than R2. But at 4, I won't even consider it

Right now Inq/Conc/Instinctive is a stellar synergistic combo, I don't see Foresight touching it. I'd be pleasantly surprised if I was wrong, we desperately need a cool non-degenerate force power, but at 4pts I don't think this is the ticket.

Lost to a 5 Inquisitor list sporting Sense and 4 copies of Foresight at the Bellevue/Seattle Hyperspace Trial on Saturday. Can confirm that when massed, Foresight becomes quite deadly, especially on the Inquisitor chassis, for all the reasons folks mentioned earlier in the thread.

On 9/13/2019 at 8:12 AM, prauxim said:

I think Foresight is DoA

• opportunity cost potentially comparable to or greater than benefit
• requires ||, is ordinance
  • best benefit is R3, where || is least likely
  • no range bonus at R1, where || is much more likely, and you are also more likely to need double tokens for regular attack/defense
• little/no ability to choose target

One too many value throttles for a 4pt investment, drop price to 2pts and I think we'd have a decent upgrade

I dont think its DoA at all. You get a modifier tacked on, basically giving you a calculated vulture drone attack with an expected 1.44 hits. Snapping ships like Inquisitors before they get their evade token can be huge, as taking just two shields is half points. Line it up correctly for following rounds if you are higher initiative, where the inquisitors if they do their hard 1 blues will get snapped, otherwise, they need to resort to a different maneuver. With that eyeball modifier, foresight is gonna be a great tool to use, especially against medium and large base ships, and vulture swarms!

Preventing ships from doing a maneuver for fear of Foresight, is just as good as actually using foresight. Maybe I cant line up my bullseye for my CLT jedi this round, but I can line it up so if you turn into me next round, I am gonna get it. Great counter mechanics

5 hours ago, wurms said:

I dont think its DoA at all. You get a modifier tacked on, basically giving you a calculated vulture drone attack with an expected 1.44 hits

2die calc vs 2die naked is only 0.8 hits, and much less vs an Inq. Then you have the opportunity cost of the force token, which will be over the map

Consider Predator by comparison

• give's +0.4 results
  • +0.5 at R1 where || is actually likely
• no token cost
• 50% the points cost
• considered good for 1pt but not overpowered by any stretch

I'm ok if Force power aren't quite as cost efficient good as Talents, which is why I say 2pts. 4pts just isn't justifiable IMO, unless there is some synergistic combo out there I'm not aware of (which is totally possible, I've only tried it on deltas)

4 hours ago, prauxim said:

2die calc vs 2die naked is only 0.8 hits, and much less vs an Inq. Then you have the opportunity cost of the force token, which will be over the map

Consider Predator by comparison

• give's +0.4 results
  • +0.5 at R1 where || is actually likely
• no token cost
• 25% the points cost
• considered good for 1pt but not overpowered by any stretch

I'm ok if Force power aren't quite as cost efficient good as Talents, which is why I say 2pts. 4pts just isn't justifiable IMO, unless there is some synergistic combo out there I'm not aware of (which is totally possible, I've only tried it on deltas)

Isn't Predator 2 points? So it'd be 50% the points cost of Foresight, and considered good for 2 points?

14 minutes ago, Wazat said:

Isn't Predator 2 points? So it'd be 50% the points cost of Foresight, and considered good for 2 points?

Ah, its is! My bad.

Still, I think the value is pretty close, and Predator is good not great (the vast majority of use is Soontir who has a major synergy) so 2x cost seems like a no-go to me

1 minute ago, prauxim said:

Ah, its is! My bad.

Still, I think the value is pretty close, and Predator is good not great (the vast majority of use is Soontir who has a major synergy) so 2x cost seems like a no-go to me

I'm not sure it's the same though; getting a modified bonus attack when most foes have no defense against it is different from modifying your engagement attack. Predator is not so direct a comparison.

Applying that same logic to Snap Shot and comparing it to, say, Dorsal Turret + Veteran Turret Gunner, might make it seem weak. Even though VTG + Dorsal is more expensive, it's quite effective, and it makes Snap Shot look pretty weak in comparison because in that context, it is indeed the weaker option. But maximizing damage output is not why you equip Snap Shot; it's more about area control and exploiting unguarded ships than double-tapping.

I do think Foresight's major weakness though is spending the precious force point. That opportunity cost is quite often expensive if used against other force users or anyone else with a defensive bonus active (e.g. Naboo like Ric, or TIE/D). You need to spend the force for Foresight when you're catching your foe with their pants down. That applies to most ships, but the meta currently favors some notable exceptions.

8 minutes ago, Wazat said:

I'm not sure it's the same though; getting a modified bonus attack when most foes have no defense against it is different from modifying your engagement attack. Predator is not so direct a comparison.

Applying that same logic to Snap Shot and comparing it to, say, Dorsal Turret + Veteran Turret Gunner, might make it seem weak. Even though VTG + Dorsal is more expensive, it's quite effective, and it makes Snap Shot look pretty weak in comparison because in that context, it is indeed the weaker option. But maximizing damage output is not why you equip Snap Shot; it's more about area control and exploiting unguarded ships than double-tapping.

I do think Foresight's major weakness though is spending the precious force point. That opportunity cost is quite often expensive if used against other force users or anyone else with a defensive bonus active (e.g. Naboo like Ric, or TIE/D). You need to spend the force for Foresight when you're catching your foe with their pants down. That applies to most ships, but the meta currently favors some notable exceptions.

I'm not sure how snapshot is better at area control than double tap Ys. What you're willing to do to avoid an area is 100% based on how bad the consequences are. You doing 0.8 damage and getting a guaranteed token loss isn't going to force a good player to make a stupid move, esp if they're planning to focus fire your now force-less ship during engagement.

Raising this thread from the dead! For HWK shenanigans so you KNOW it's good!

Not sure if it's been brought up yet, but someone on the forums asked if Snap Shot could be used to give HWKs a forward arc for their pilot abilities. I replied yes, and realized it's a cool idea. Not as good as Moldy Crow, but it's only 38% the price and also not limited. Finally you can field both Torkil and Palob with forward arcs to pair with their turrets. Or you know, Jan, Kyle, and/or Roark in case there's a combo that's useful somewhere in there.

Still doesn't matter for Dace. But no one uses Dace. Unless someone's come up with something clever since I last checked, in which case, I want to see it.

You can't.

1 hour ago, Wazat said:

Raising this thread from the dead! For HWK shenanigans so you KNOW it's good!

Not sure if it's been brought up yet, but someone on the forums asked if Snap Shot could be used to give HWKs a forward arc for their pilot abilities. I replied yes, and realized it's a cool idea. Not as good as Moldy Crow, but it's only 38% the price and also not limited. Finally you can field both Torkil and Palob with forward arcs to pair with their turrets. Or you know, Jan, Kyle, and/or Roark in case there's a combo that's useful somewhere in there.

Still doesn't matter for Dace. But no one uses Dace. Unless someone's come up with something clever since I last checked, in which case, I want to see it.

This doesn't work. Per the rules reference:

Quote

A ship’s Firing arcs include all shaded arcs on the ship’s ship token plus all [turret] arcs, if any.
• If an upgrade card gives a ship a [turret] arc or primary weapon with a specified arc, those arcs are also firing arcs

Snap Shot gives neither a turret nor a primary weapon. It's a secondary weapon attack. Moldy Crow works because it explicitly gives a primary weapon arc.

9 hours ago, Ysenhal said:

This doesn't work. Per the rules reference:

Snap Shot gives neither a turret nor a primary weapon. It's a secondary weapon attack. Moldy Crow works because it explicitly gives a primary weapon arc.

rats. You're right, I'll update what I wrote.