The problem with the Mantis is that I feel if they go there, they don't accomplish anything but to give Yoritomo the biggest leverage he could ever have imagined. They - or at least Daisetsu - will presumably be reasonably treated, but they'll be prisoners, much as Shahai was in Otosan Uchi. I do think it's a fair point that he might go to Dairu. Maybe they and Toturi & Kaede all go to Dairu/Shoju, given that Shoju also knows that he was supposed to be Regent. This sort of circles around again to my theory that there will be no Scorpion Clan Coup this time, but that everyone will think there was. The alleged coup might be to put Daisetsu on the throne over Sotorii (again, edict is forged, etc); no one knows that that was what the Emperor actually wanted.

Yoritomo'd marry Daisetsu to Magami, and declare him the Emperor and her Empress.

So love the fact that we see both brothers have these black out moments of anger. The idea that the mother regrets Daisetsu is also interesting. (There is confirmation she loves but had basically abandoned the boys. Such a loving family situation that is.)

It does occur to me that when Satori previously talked about Daisetsu being mean, he may have been right and that the switch flip for Daisetsu we see may not have been the first time.

The difference is that Daisetsu had Dairyu and now Shahai to moderate his worst impulses. Sotorii, it seems, had no one. Just an ever-increasing burden of shame.

One thing - it really suggests a hint about how Meishodo works.

(Iuchi Shahai can be considered an expert, after all)

But didn’t the palace have wards to protect the Emperor? To alert his guards? She’d felt them—they were obvious to any shugenja. They should have come to life when the Emperor was slain.

But what if the kami that she had gathered were the ones powering those wards? They were in her meishōdō talismans awaiting tomorrow’s demonstration when they would be released. A demonstration that now would never come. Without kami, any wards were just powerless runes.

Could she have undone the palace consecrations? But only temporarily. Just for one night. What was one night? It should have been harmless.

So a Meishodo talisman literally does contain a Kami.

And Shahai may have 'switched off' the Hidden Guard's lifewards.

Oopsie .

1. Spooky, you magnificent <redacted>!

2. Never mind the lifewards... what if Shahai's meddling with the local kami allowed someone- or something- to drive Sotorii AND Daisetsu to new depths of cruelty and/or malice? Sotorii is absolutely a git, but murdering his own dad seemed to come out of left field. And then we have Daisetsu goading his brother to further depths of misery... and being snapped out of it. What, one wonders, might Shahai have let in?

3. Now we know why Shoju is seen on the throne in that card art. One brother is already missing, and the other appears to be feeling profound self-loathing and actual remorse. Kachiko's mess gets worse and worse for a Champion who wanted his clan to stop being so prominent.

4. While everyone is more or less hosed... MAN are the Unicorn going to get it in the neck from this. Daisetsu was last seen in Shahai's company before they both vanished on the night the Emperor died. And those kami she trapped? Still gone. With her.

1 hour ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

MAN are the Unicorn going to get it in the neck from this. Daisetsu was last seen in Shahai's company before they both vanished on the night the Emperor died. And those kami she trapped? Still gone. With her.

And Akodo (nee Isawa) Kaede, the most publicly vocal critic of Meishodo, and her husband, are also missing, after assassins broke into her home.

Unicorn Clan Coup?

10 hours ago, Shadrack said:

So love the fact that we see both brothers have these black out moments of anger. The idea that the mother regrets Daisetsu is also interesting. (There is confirmation she loves but had basically abandoned the boys. Such a loving family situation that is.)

It does occur to me that when Satori previously talked about Daisetsu being mean, he may have been right and that the switch flip for Daisetsu we see may not have been the first time.

The new info about the princes' mother is particularly interesting considering her fate in the old lore. It seems like something weird happened at Daisetsu's birth this time too, but we don't know if it was something supernatural or not.

19 minutes ago, Doji Tori said:

The new info about the princes' mother is particularly interesting considering her fate in the old lore. It seems like something weird happened at Daisetsu's birth this time too, but we don't know if it was something supernatural or not.

Indeed. "mother wished she were dead after you were born!" may be something thrown out to be deliberately hurtful but it also feels significant.

It could just be a 'trials of the birth' thing, but it could also be something sinister about the child.

For an extreme example; maybe Hantei Daisetsu died in childbirth and a 'replacement' baby was acquired from somewhere.

11 hours ago, Shadrack said:

So love the fact that we see both brothers have these black out moments of anger.

Anger is one thing. "I just murdered dad" is kind of justifiable provocation.

But the main thing I got from the story is that Daisetsu has a normally-kept-well-in-check undercurrent of mean and nasty as well.

And that is news (and probably bad news, to be specific)

28 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Anger is one thing. "I just murdered dad" is kind of justifiable provocation.

But the main thing I got from the story is that Daisetsu has a normally-kept-well-in-check undercurrent of mean and nasty as well.

And that is news (and probably bad news, to be specific)

We've seen a few instances of this attitude creeping into his dealings with his brother, and it seemed for the most part to be limited to his attitude towards his brother.

The fact that it flared up in this circumstance seems as you mentioned very justifiable so while I see it as something that we may potentially build on I'm not sure how much I'll read into it for now. What still strikes me as more important is that as far as we know Daisetsu still has his brother's death poem and will he be able to leverage that into support against Sotorii.

Shoju's tabi must be mightilyy unconfortable right now.

So, as of now, we have:

Kaede and Ishikawa on the run with Toturi in tow.

Daisetsu and Shahai on the run.

Kachiko with the knowledge that she has done ****** up.

The Kolat with the knowledge that Sotorii killed Jodan.

A Dragon army inbound to Otosan Uchi.

Which leaves us to find out, Ouija boarding and fanwanking a bit:

What will Shoju do? With Daisetsu out of the board even for a moment the window to get rid of Sotorii discreetly disappears and without Toturi to back him, anything other than steping in line with the official story will seem like an even worse power grab. Oh, and is presumptive heir is by default in the Emperor's bad graces. So I suspect one of the first things Shoju will do when he finds out about the *********** is to send Dairyu on a Musha Shugyo to keep him out of reach of Sotorii and to find Daisetsu.

On the "mother of the year" Kachiko side we'll have to see whether Aramoro tells her that he couldn't confirm killing Toturi and getting rid of the body. That can be huge on her confrontation with Shoju (unless Shoju fully takes the gloves off and decides to leave Kachiko and Aramoro to the tender mercies of some specialist Burakumin, or worse, Hametsu), and ties in on what option Shoju takes if he believes Toturi to be dead instead of being on the run.

The Dragon army is also a wildcard. A safe bet is that it will pick up one or both of the runaway groups but if it doesn't they may very well end up thrown in the blender of Imperial politics.

BTW, missing Toturi just created a power vacuum on the Lion Clan when their leadership is already showing stress fractures.

Incidentally Kakita Yoshi finding about Jodan's death just became far less impressive. The old adage that three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead has just proved itself correct again.

21 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:

We've seen a few instances of this attitude creeping into his dealings with his brother, and it seemed for the most part to be limited to his attitude towards his brother.

The fact that it flared up in this circumstance seems as you mentioned very justifiable so while I see it as something that we may potentially build on I'm not sure how much I'll read into it for now. What still strikes me as more important is that as far as we know Daisetsu still has his brother's death poem and will he be able to leverage that into support against Sotorii.

If Sotorii's calligraphy can be verified.

Without Toturi and Shoju's backing Daisetsu doesn't have much to go on. I can see the Crab, the Manti,s and the Unicorn being given reasons to back Daisetsu even lacking that support, but they would have just as many reasons to gift Daisetsu to the publically recognized rightful heir to Jodan.

49 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Anger is one thing. "I just murdered dad" is kind of justifiable provocation.

But the main thing I got from the story is that Daisetsu has a normally-kept-well-in-check undercurrent of mean and nasty as well.

And that is news (and probably bad news, to be specific)

I think the key is how similar the brothers seem in their anger. We don't have Daisetsu's perspective, but considering how disoriented he seemed when Shahai snapped him out of it he probably also blacked out and while blacked out both went for letal force. Shahai also says Daisetsu reminded her of Sotorii in his callousness.

It could just be a family resemblance, but if we consider the theory of something controlling Sotorii those similarities could have another meaning.

Are Meishodo wielders like Pokemon trainers? It sounds like she calls kami into her amulets and lets them sleep there till she needs their aid. Interesting. That's not how I saw it, but it makes sense given how Meishodo is suppose to work that you are carrying a kami around with you.

The Crab probably only need Sotorii to continue the status quo for them to rebel with the flimsiest of premises. Kisada was already considering it from day 1 and Taka is basically complicit in piracy which is not too far off from open rebellion. Mantis as well. So it all comes down to Sotorii's policies.

1 minute ago, Suzume Chikahisa said:

If Sotorii's calligraphy can be verified.

Without Toturi and Shoju's backing Daisetsu doesn't have much to go on. I can see the Crab, the Manti,s and the Unicorn being given reasons to back Daisetsu even lacking that support, but they would have just as many reasons to gift Daisetsu to the publically recognized rightful heir to Jodan.

Unicorn I think are the least likely to back Sotorii just because my expectation is they will be having a massive Lion problem very shortly as I predict Sotorii is likely to hand Shori over to them and say go get the Unicorn who obviously brought about my fathers death and have disrupted the wards in the castle (as evidenced by the cut he received from Shahai that didn't trigger any warning to the guards).

I think it will be the factor that forces Shoju to act and assume the position of regent (which actually shouldn't be required as Sotorii is an adult having passed his gempukku) for the troubled heir. The question is how will Sotorii handle the power play by Shoju?

As to Crab and Mantis it really comes down to which Prince offers them the most gain. I can very easily see them backing Daisetsu as he promises them the resources that they seek if they help put him on his throne.

1 minute ago, phillos said:

Are Meishodo wielders like Pokemon trainers? It sounds like she calls kami into her amulets and lets them sleep there till she needs their aid. Interesting. That's not how I saw it, but it makes sense given how Meishodo is suppose to work that you are carrying a kami around with you.

It kind of contradicts Outsiders, where someone turns up with a trinket which is useful for communicating but definitely doesn't have the Hoseki Pond Kami 'inside' and doesn't trap it. I think it can go either way.

1 minute ago, phillos said:

Are Meishodo wielders like Pokemon trainers? It sounds like she calls kami into her amulets and lets them sleep there till she needs their aid. Interesting. That's not how I saw it, but it makes sense given how Meishodo is suppose to work that you are carrying a kami around with you.

The Crab probably only need Sotorii to continue the status quo for them to rebel with the flimsiest of premises. Kisada was already considering it from day 1 and Taka is basically complicit in piracy which is not too far off from open rebellion. Mantis as well. So it all comes down to Sotorii's policies.

I thought Meishodo was more like a traditional name magic, as you learn the "name" of the spirit you bind it to a physical object and are able to compel it to perform effects for you through that object.

I thought so too, but that's not what is said here. She is removing kami from the palace. That's sort of explicitly said.

I don't mind it either way. I guess I kinda like the idea of you befriending a kami by learning it's true name and carrying it around with you a bit more than you calling a kami remotely for assistance. It makes kami feels a bit more grounded in power (which is usually nice for a magical setting).

4 minutes ago, phillos said:

I thought so too, but that's not what is said here. She is removing kami from the palace. That's sort of explicitly said.

I don't mind it either way. I guess I kinda like the idea of you befriending a kami by learning it's true name and carrying it around with you a bit more than you calling a kami remotely for assistance. It makes kami feels a bit more grounded in power (which is usually nice for a magical setting).

I always took the binding to be removing it from its natural habitat personally.

It adds interesting questions of what does it mean when you remove a kami from it's rightful place? How often do kami move around? Does this practice cause issues? She's been teaching a bunch of students unfamiliar with the practice right in the palace. Can those potential problems be magnified by that?

It's certainly colored in a softer light here. There's a way to read this where Meishodo is forced servitude, much like the Djinn (and pokemon training to be honest). Though this story seems to describe it as an act of befriending the kami more akin to traditional shugenja magic. They just go about it a different way by somehow mystically learning the kami's name.

1 hour ago, Suzume Chikahisa said:

So, as of now, we have:

Kaede and Ishikawa on the run with Toturi in tow.

I was pretty sure Ishikawa planned to go back to his post once Kaede and Toturi were out.

Just now, Tonbo Karasu said:

I was pretty sure Ishikawa planned to go back to his post once Kaede and Toturi were out.

yeah Ishikawa stayed in the capital while Kaede took Toturi into hiding

2 hours ago, Schmoozies said:

I always took the binding to be removing it from its natural habitat personally.

The whole shrine-fight Tarayu-ji Tadaka is involved in in Repentance Does Not Come First means you can persuade a kami to go in a thing and wander around with it; presumably similar principles apply.

6 hours ago, Schmoozies said:

yeah Ishikawa stayed in the capital while Kaede took Toturi into hiding

A random thought, but Ishikawa is a Seppun himself - where was he supposed to be when all this took place? Even if it's just collateral damage, he may be caught up in this as complicit/negligent.

edit: A gear just turned in my head: what if Ishikawa is held responsible for this - the price that Kaede will pay is to keep Toturi and lose him?

9 minutes ago, MirumotoKatsuro said:

A random thought, but Ishikawa is a Seppun himself - where was he supposed to be when all this took place? Even if it's just collateral damage, he may be caught up in this as complicit/negligent.

He's chief of the Seppun Guard so yeah he's probably taking backlash, but he wasn't specifically responsible for the Emperor at the time so may be able to get off with just a demotion and Roninhood.