Just now, 5050Saint said:Lacking any color 3 hards, lacking more straight blues, and lacking a boost action, it makes you wonder why it is called an Interceptor at all.
Maybe someone liked the Myrmidon for the role in that mid-late 90's flight sim (I'm drawing a blank, came out roughly parallel to the first Homeworld game and was the second installment in its series) and it translated over to this??
7 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:If we mean dogfighers and ace-ships, they're not really doing that in X-Wing.
I think since we are dogfighting, using the dogfighter aircraft definition of "a fast aircraft for stopping or repelling hostile aircraft" seems the most relevant, but with the ship we have, it's not very accurate.
The Scyk looks a lot like the Aethersprite. Same statline (except force), nearly identical dial (except sloops), and same actions (except boost). Going from the base Scyk to the Aethersprite costs 10 points for an initiative jump (or 6 from the identical-initiative TPV), sloops, boost, and force. The difference in points is much smaller than it should be. The generics are definitely overcosted, and even a 1 or 2 point shift would have a huge impact on swarms.
At their current price point, you’re probably better off with something like the kihraxz in a swarm, but I think that the cheaper unique pilots like Sunny Bounder, Genesis Red, or Quinn Jast with autoblasters (or apt/prockets on Jast) make nice additions to the scum salad lists.
19 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:If we mean point-defense ships designed to attack bombers? Scyks seem like they can do that decently. Weapon Hardpoint allows them to get a lot of firepower cheaply. They seem like they'll be great at Epic, for bringing cheap Heavy Laser Cannons to bear on Huge ships. If it was a serious large-base meta, Scyks seem like they'd also do quite well. Scyk seems tailor-made to shred MG-100 Starfortresses…
Sort of... Most of the large bases in game can flat out match speed with or out run the M3-A (add base size to maneuver speed, then add boost + base size again for those with boost). Those that can't (Upsilon, Lambda and MG-100) either can delete 1 - 2 a turn through weight of fire or negate allot of the damage being brought to bear. This is before taking their "escorts" into account.
My most successful 2nd Ed list so far has a Scyk as an integral part of it. I think part of the problem might me running with a full list of them. Why not just use one? I had a list that was not quite as good, but the points dropped on all of these:
M3-A Interceptor - •Laetin A’shera - 39
•Laetin A’shera -
Car’das Enforcer
(33)
Trick Shot (4)
Tractor Beam (2)
Kihraxz Fighter - Cartel Marauder - 38
Cartel Marauder - (38)
Kihraxz Fighter - Cartel Marauder - 38
Cartel Marauder - (38)
Kihraxz Fighter - Cartel Marauder - 38
Cartel Marauder - (38)
G-1A Starfighter - •Zuckuss - 47
•Zuckuss -
Meditative Gand
(45)
Fire-Control System (2)
Total: 200/200
View in the X-Wing Squad Builder
They fly in rough formation with Kihraxz in the front, then Scyk, then G-1A. Scyk fired Tractor Beam first. Opponent either takes the TB token or spends tokens to avoid it, then the rest of the list lights it up. You would also be surprised by how many ships I have thrown onto rocks with TB. I have actually killed many by asteroid and blocked many shots by hitting lower Init ships onto rocks.
If you can hit someone with the TB, the Kihraxz can light them up. If you miss, you get a free Evade token.
The Scyk and Kihraxz have very similar dials and both have a 1 bank and 1 hard turn. This is important when dealing with flankers. You can just turn hard on someone when they come at you.
Once you joust and one ship is hurt, go for the block. The short range fighting helps them quite a bit. The Misthunter works as a blocker to keep people in the kill box. The 1 hard stop is great.
3 minutes ago, heychadwick said:My most successful 2nd Ed list so far has a Scyk as an integral part of it. I think part of the problem might me running with a full list of them. Why not just use one? I had a list that was not quite as good, but the points dropped on all of these:
M3-A Interceptor - •Laetin A’shera - 39
•Laetin A’shera - Car’das Enforcer (33)
Trick Shot (4)
Tractor Beam (2)Kihraxz Fighter - Cartel Marauder - 38
Cartel Marauder - (38)Kihraxz Fighter - Cartel Marauder - 38
Cartel Marauder - (38)Kihraxz Fighter - Cartel Marauder - 38
Cartel Marauder - (38)G-1A Starfighter - •Zuckuss - 47
•Zuckuss - Meditative Gand (45)
Fire-Control System (2)Total: 200/200
View in the X-Wing Squad BuilderThey fly in rough formation with Kihraxz in the front, then Scyk, then G-1A. Scyk fired Tractor Beam first. Opponent either takes the TB token or spends tokens to avoid it, then the rest of the list lights it up. You would also be surprised by how many ships I have thrown onto rocks with TB. I have actually killed many by asteroid and blocked many shots by hitting lower Init ships onto rocks.
If you can hit someone with the TB, the Kihraxz can light them up. If you miss, you get a free Evade token.
The Scyk and Kihraxz have very similar dials and both have a 1 bank and 1 hard turn. This is important when dealing with flankers. You can just turn hard on someone when they come at you.
Once you joust and one ship is hurt, go for the block. The short range fighting helps them quite a bit. The Misthunter works as a blocker to keep people in the kill box. The 1 hard stop is great.
That's a nice support build on Laetin.
2 hours ago, Des Darklighter said:The Scyk looks a lot like the Aethersprite. Same statline (except force), nearly identical dial (except sloops), and same actions (except boost). Going from the base Scyk to the Aethersprite costs 10 points for an initiative jump (or 6 from the identical-initiative TPV), sloops, boost, and force. The difference in points is much smaller than it should be. The generics are definitely overcosted, and even a 1 or 2 point shift would have a huge impact on swarms.
At their current price point, you’re probably better off with something like the kihraxz in a swarm, but I think that the cheaper unique pilots like Sunny Bounder, Genesis Red, or Quinn Jast with autoblasters (or apt/prockets on Jast) make nice additions to the scum salad lists.
The most egregious difference between the two, to me at least, is the Aethersprite's ship ability that basically links a reposition action to any of their other available actions, stress free. Meanwhile the Scyk has no access to two actions a turn at all.
Edited by MidWestScrubWhile IMO the Scyk as it is mostly just needs a bit of a points cut, the interesting thing they could do now in 2nd ed is bring back the Light scyk as a... circle-s-foil-card-thingy upgrade option. It could be 1-sided, reduce the hull points by 1, remove the hard-point, add boost and linked barrel-roll actions, and make the 2-speed maneuvers blue. Or maybe just the 1-turns blue.
Edited by It’s One Of Ours11 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:Light scyk as a... circle-s-foil-card-thingy upgrade option.
Configuration.
59 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:It could be 1-sided, reduce the hull points by 1, remove the hard-point, add boost and linked barrel-roll actions, and make the 2-speed maneuvers blue. Or maybe just the 1-turns blue.
Get rid of the removing a Hull and I'm on board. The Scyk doesn't need to be even more fragile.
3 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:Get rid of the removing a Hull and I'm on board. The Scyk doesn't need to be even more fragile.
A buddy of mine bounced a similar idea off of me. The key intent behind the loss in hp is to have the config cost 0 pts. They also had the Weapon Hardpoint removed by the configuration. The concern is that with 4 hp (3 hull, 1 shield), retaining the ship hardpoint, the additional blues, the increase in mobility and the addition of a linked action while not having a steep negative from what the basic Scyk (formerly the 1.0 Heavy Scyk ) has to compensate would result in a 2 or more points increase for taking the Config. Not something many of us, if any of us, want to see.
I flew four TPV with Marksmanship and Autoblasters alongside Zuckuss last night, facing Kenobi/Koon/Padme with R4/7B and ProTorps/Juke. My opponent went for the Zuckuss bait, and he soaked up just enough attacks for the Scyks to whittle away at both Obi and Padme before he went boom. Game ended at time with two burning Scyks and one untouched chasing down a shieldless Koon. I never once got to trigger Marksmanship or get the extra die from the Auroblasters, but having that many arcs on the board meant that I did once in a while get to sneak in an uncancelable crit. And while Zuckuss never once fired, my opponent said that he flew differently in order to avoid getting in that arc, and also said that he flew differently trying to avoid those bullseyes. This was my first time beating Jedi in 2.0, so pretty happy with the list so far. Although this was a filthy casual, as opposed to the slightly more tournament-oriented fare of my Thursday group.
More named Scyks miiiight be more effective, but I fear that I might end up trying to chase their pilot abilities, which might lead me to fly them to less effect. This result leads me to believe that massed matched-Initiative Autoblasters might be the best way to run Scyks. I also think they will live and die by their wingmate - and while Zuckuss does provide the very scariest of bait at an almost reasonable price, he does die very, very quickly. So. What's the groupthink on the most effective 60 points Scum can field? Is it the big Z? Or can we do better?
I think Genesis Red with some sort of Ordnance would be a good option that Z-95's can't copy. Also good vs. Init 5 or less opponents.
15 hours ago, MidWestScrub said:The most egregious difference between the two, to me at least, is the Aethersprite's ship ability that basically links a reposition action to any of their other available actions, stress free. Meanwhile the Scyk has no access to two actions a turn at all.
Genesis Red can get two actions
if
your opponent has ships moving before him that take a Focus or Evade. I've been experimenting with Genesis with a Perceptive Copilot carrier in the same list so if the other side of the table is all 5s and 6s then Genesis can Target Lock his buddy and get two Focus tokens. The ideal candidate for this trick is an I2 Bounty Hunter. Moves early with a great dial for blocking, has front
and
rear 3 dice attacks, 2 agility, 10 hps. Give Red a Cannon and let him go to town, maybe Elusive too.
BUT. That is putting more points onto what feels like bad points and it leaves less than 100 points left to squeeze in one or two meaningful ships. Interesting pieces/combination but I haven't found a solid list there yet.
27 minutes ago, Burius1981 said:Genesis Red can get two actions if your opponent has ships moving before him that take a Focus or Evade. I've been experimenting with Genesis with a Perceptive Copilot carrier in the same list so if the other side of the table is all 5s and 6s then Genesis can Target Lock his buddy and get two Focus tokens. The ideal candidate for this trick is an I2 Bounty Hunter. Moves early with a great dial for blocking, has front and rear 3 dice attacks, 2 agility, 10 hps. Give Red a Cannon and let him go to town, maybe Elusive too.
BUT. That is putting more points onto what feels like bad points and it leaves less than 100 points left to squeeze in one or two meaningful ships. Interesting pieces/combination but I haven't found a solid list there yet.
Genesis Red can target lock a friendly Moldy Crow with Debris Gambit and collect ALLZ TEH TOKENZ!
1 minute ago, LagJanson said:Genesis Red can target lock a friendly Moldy Crow with Debris Gambit and collect ALLZ TEH TOKENZ!
Yes he can, and that is a neat trick. I was looking into a lower Initiative, somewhat tanky Perceptive carrier as a way to consistently get value from Red when your opponent either abstains from taking Focus/Evade actions or is moving all of their ships after Red. The Firespray and the Scurgg are the two platforms I like the most for this because they have enough health to stick around for a little while.
But then you put all this effort into getting Genesis Red's ability off consistently and then proceed to roll all successes and blanks. Then you remember that M3As are still over costed.
8 minutes ago, Burius1981 said:But then you put all this effort into getting Genesis Red's ability off consistently and then proceed to roll all successes and blanks. Then you remember that M3As are still over costed.
I'm not sure I've even used Red yet. He might have competitive value in the right meta...
Serissu might have legs if you're not trying to use her as a support piece. Just use her as a cheap ace and selfishly use her ability on herself. Spending a bunch of points on upgrades is probably the wrong way to go. Give her a secondary weapon and that's about it.
Sunny is a cheap little annoying flanker.
Outside that, the names are fun to put on the map on a weekly game night, but probably not competitive in a stiff tournament environment.
1 hour ago, Burius1981 said:BUT. That is putting more points onto what feels like bad points and it leaves less than 100 points left to squeeze in one or two meaningful ships. Interesting pieces/combination but I haven't found a solid list there yet.
Yes, I think just having Genesis Red's ability works best when he's TL the enemy . This, if the enemy has gone before him, he will get his TL and also get any Focus or Evade tokens from the target.
1 hour ago, Burius1981 said:But then you put all this effort into getting Genesis Red's ability off consistently and then proceed to roll all successes and blanks. Then you remember that M3As are still over costed.
I don't think that they are overcosted so much. It's not an unplayable ship. Also, not a very constructive comment.
If you had something that didn't cost too much, but can make a huge difference on Genesis Red, I think he can make a difference. Let's say an Advanced Proton Torpedo! He can get in R1 of someone who has already moved, get the TL, and also get any Focus or Evade the enemy has. If it's a Focus, then he has a fully modded 5 red die attack. What's not to love?
Personally, I don't play against tournament lists all the time, so for me, I have very little problem with finding an opponent that is I4 or less.
EDIT: If there was someone with Co-ordinate that was a higher Init, it would be better, but no luck for Scum.
Edited by heychadwick1 hour ago, LagJanson said:I'm not sure I've even used Red yet. He might have competitive value in the right meta...
Would have been decent against Phantoms...
2 hours ago, heychadwick said:Yes, I think just having Genesis Red's ability works best when he's TL the enemy . This, if the enemy has gone before him, he will get his TL and also get any Focus or Evade tokens from the target.
I don't think that they are overcosted so much. It's not an unplayable ship. Also, not a very constructive comment.
If you had something that didn't cost too much, but can make a huge difference on Genesis Red, I think he can make a difference. Let's say an Advanced Proton Torpedo! He can get in R1 of someone who has already moved, get the TL, and also get any Focus or Evade the enemy has. If it's a Focus, then he has a fully modded 5 red die attack. What's not to love?
Personally, I don't play against tournament lists all the time, so for me, I have very little problem with finding an opponent that is I4 or less.
EDIT: If there was someone with Co-ordinate that was a higher Init, it would be better, but no luck for Scum.
/joking is necessary I guess.
So far as Genesis Red is concerned; I went to Atomic Empire's HST, lots of 4s and 5s, not a crazy amount of 6s. I played against CIS swarms 3 times, so no love there. Finn was present in more than a few lists including the over all winner's list. Red could lock him for the double Focus tokens but I wouldn't plan on actually shooting Finn with a 2 dice attack, the odds of doing damage are too low and that is what your opponent wants you to do anyway. (Yes I know M3As aren't HS legal yet, but HS lists and Extended lists are getting closer and closer in make up as the HS format includes more things.)
I assumed, possibly in error so correct me if I'm wrong, that the thread was about making M3As work in competitive lists. If I just feel like goofing off on casual night, then they are fine as is and there are plenty of goofy builds to mess with. Serissu with Autoblasters, Elusive, and Afterburners is fun, also Quinns with PRockets and Afterburners. But I'd be hard pressed to take any of them except maybe Sunny to a competitive event and that is a pretty big maybe since Seevor is also 30 points and is a pretty solid annoyance/support piece.
The M3A could have really used a Barrel Roll linked to a red Focus action. It would have made them(along with the juicy bullseye cannons/PRockets) much more playable competitively. As it is, it is pretty tough for them to earn their points back against efficiently built tournament lists. Another points drop of 1 or 2 across the board is what it will probably take for us to see them show up at large competitive events.
Edited by Burius19814 hours ago, LagJanson said:I'm not sure I've even used Red yet. He might have competitive value in the right meta...
I used Genesis a lot in the beginning of 2nd ed. Everybody hated him and tried to kill him immediately, because he was the Tractor beamer in my list, that way he was almost a "Mini Biggs".
I like Scyks most as Tractor Beamers, most often 1 in the list to soften up a target for the other hitters (respectively enemies try to stay away from the tractor, so you can "corral").
3 hours ago, Hiemfire said:Would have been decent against Phantoms...
Oh yes, phantoms hated him with passion.
However, with Jedis and other force users running rampage now, his pilot ability is not very good!
4 hours ago, heychadwick said:Yes, I think just having Genesis Red's ability works best when he's TL the enemy . This, if the enemy has gone before him, he will get his TL and also get any Focus or Evade tokens from the target.
That's his problem - he is actually a bit low ini for it to make it really shine.
I really would like to fly Quinn and reload hilarious things like Afterburners and/or Prockets, but the dial is a bit slow to disengage, run away, reload and then come back. By the time you come back the game is already over one way or the other. And he gets so expensive so fast. I would almost like him have the unique ability to reload one charge on everything , that way he would be worth sinking so many points in such a squishy ship.
Sunny is just fun.
@5050Saint said
"Lacking any color 3 hards, lacking more straight blues, and lacking a boost action, it makes you wonder why it is called an Interceptor at all. "
Not having 3hards is unfortunately a Scum&Villainy theme. Exceptions are the Fang, Lancer, MGT and -surprise- the M12L(!!) - I love that feature on a medium base.
From 1st ed to 2nd ed the Scyk gained the much needed 5straight, but green 2 banks were downgraded to white 2 banks. Having 1 hards and esp 5K is fantastic, but instead of a 3K I much rather had a T-roll and S-loops. And so few blues, esp when looking at other "Interceptor" types.
As for Autoblasters, a list I have ready to go packed in my bag, but not being able to fly it yet (club has started HotAc 2nd ed test run):
5 Serissu Tractor Crack
3 Laetin Autoblaster Crack
1 Sunny Bounder
1 Cartel Spacer Autoblaster
3 Seevor
3 Ahaav Crack
Crack is debateable *), could go for a bid, or put an Autoblaster on Sunny. However, she wants to have TL and Focus for these sweet 3-4 hits or even 3-4 crits. With autoblaster she often would have to reposition to get bullseye, so I tend towards having her nothing in order to get mods on ordinary shots.
Seevor (remember he doesn't even have to hit to jam) and Serissu soften things up. The Cartel (preferable) or Sunny go for blocks. Ahaav for bigger ships, respectively maybe confusing the opponent, which one is Seevor, which one is Ahaav. Also nice block of Ini3 with Laetin, Seevor and Ahaav, makes killboxes easier.
*) I know that people tend to want Marksmanship when going for bullseyes, but my experience from flying double M12L says I rather want to really push the damage through at critical moments (e.g. finally caught the ace in arc) by taking away green dies/die mods insteads of having more hits turned into crits, which then get cancelled by defense dice. I managed to one-shot Soontir that way with a generic Kimogila.
2 minutes ago, Managarmr said:With autoblaster she often would have to reposition to get bullseye, so I tend towards having her nothing in order to get mods on ordinary shots.
Don't force the bullseye with her and consider it gravy against large bases. Just focus on using it when out of their front arc backed by a Lock.
Autoblaster scyks? Here - have fun - enjoy the bulls eyes, they will come.
16 minutes ago, LagJanson said:Autoblaster scyks? Here - have fun - enjoy the bulls eyes, they will come.
There is also this. A bit more defensive in nature (Serrisu instead of Drea) but I5 engagement chaining still functions.
21 hours ago, Hiemfire said:Configuration.
21 hours ago, It’s One Of Ours said:While IMO the Scyk as it is mostly just needs a bit of a points cut, the interesting thing they could do now in 2nd ed is bring back the Light scyk as a... circle-s-foil-card-thingy upgrade option. It could be 1-sided, reduce the hull points by 1, remove the hard-point, add boost and linked barrel-roll actions, and make the 2-speed maneuvers blue. Or maybe just the 1-turns blue.
I think removing a shield is more in line with scum faction mentality, then give it the ability to perform a Boost after fully executing a maneuver. The dial doesn't need to be changed, it doesn't need a linked action printed and it's fast, but still different to A wings/Aethersprites/Tie Interceptors due to the order of its moves and weaker health (swapping two shield for a hull makes it a suckered for crits compared to an A wing) and it lacks the good blue manuveurs if an A wing, showing that it can be outflown if forced to turn around.
Also I think it should remove the mod and Hardpoint slot
Edited by Scum4Life