6 minutes ago, Scum4Life said:

I think removing a shield is more in line with scum faction mentality, then give it the ability to perform a Boost after fully executing a maneuver. The dial doesn't need to be changed, it doesn't need a linked action printed and it's fast, but different to A wingsbdue to the order of its moves and weaker (swapping two shield for a hull makes it a suckered for crits compared to an A wing) and it lacks the good blue manuveurs if an A wing, showing that it can be outflows if forced to turn around.

Also I think it should remove the mod and Hardpoint slot

🤨 So make it a crappier Fang? No thanks.

8 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

🤨 So make it a crappier Fang? No thanks.

Fangs don't get a free boost after completing a maneuver, so they would fly differently, and still don't have a linked Barrel roll. Fangs can't boost into a roll either so in some ways/instances this light racing Scyk configuration could be more maneuverable and keeps the ship stress free.

LIght Scyks were meant to be Racers, so thematically stripping out your heavy shield generator makes more sense than removing hull plating to me (Also keeps the config cost down to 0)

These would make good flanker imho and provide something that isn't an MG Tie, which is a ship that will probably prevent a light Scyk configuration ever being released.

9 minutes ago, Scum4Life said:

Fangs don't get a free boost after completing a maneuver, so they would fly differently, and still don't have a linked Barrel roll. Fangs can't boost into a roll either so in some ways/instances this light racing Scyk configuration could be more maneuverable and keeps the ship stress free.

LIght Scyks were meant to be Racers, so thematically stripping out your heavy shield generator makes more sense than removing hull plating to me (Also keeps the config cost down to 0)

These would make good flanker imho and provide something that isn't an MG Tie, which is a ship that will probably prevent a light Scyk configuration ever being released.

3 hull with a post maneuver execution boost instead of the hardpoint and no change to the dial or action bar... This takes the M3-A and changes it from mostly non-viable to a quick bug looking for a windshield... No thanks.

The problem with removing the shield generator, is that it goes against the background for the Scyk. A weak shield generator was in it’s standard outfit. The thing was still a deathtrap, but it should still have that shield.

A light configuration (circle s-foil thingy) could remove the mod slot, and it would make sense as the ship wasn’t known for being highly moddable. But I want Quinn Jast and Sunny Bounder in light scyks with afterburners, **********!

13 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

The problem with removing the shield generator, is that it goes against the background for the Scyk. A weak shield generator was in it’s standard outfit. The thing was still a deathtrap, but it should still have that shield.

A light configuration (circle s-foil thingy) could remove the mod slot, and it would make sense as the ship wasn’t known for being highly moddable. But I want Quinn Jast and Sunny Bounder in light scyks with afterburners, **********!

Just reading the wookipedia article it talks about nit being able to fit a booster so my idea of boosting Scyks isn't as thematic as I'd first thought.

Maybe the best thing, would be a 1-2 point points drop on various Scyks, tbh I have used them partially successfully when I fly Ion/tractor Serrisu / Cartel spacers or Jamming beam sunny bounder.

23 hours ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

While IMO the Scyk as it is mostly just needs a bit of a points cut, the interesting thing they could do now in 2nd ed is bring back the Light scyk as a... circle-s-foil-card-thingy upgrade option. It could be 1-sided, reduce the hull points by 1, remove the hard-point, add boost and linked barrel-roll actions, and make the 2-speed maneuvers blue. Or maybe just the 1-turns blue.

While I know they could do Light Scyk as a configuration, there's probably some room to go with a modification slot. 1e Light Scyk prevented you from equipping modifications, so why not skip a step and make Light Scyk the modification?

Consider something like "Stripped Down Spaceframe" which be small-ship only, reduce the hull of any ship it was on by 1, and add a Red Boost action. Kind of represents just taking "stuff" out until it gets faster--a "for speed, add lightness" sort of thing. Probably be fun to put a similar upgrade onto other ships, too.

12 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

While I know they could do Light Scyk as a configuration, there's probably some room to go with a modification slot. 1e Light Scyk prevented you from equipping modifications, so why not skip a step and make Light Scyk the modification?

Consider something like "Stripped Down Spaceframe" which be small-ship only, reduce the hull of any ship it was on by 1, and add a Red Boost action. Kind of represents just taking "stuff" out until it gets faster--a "for speed, add lightness" sort of thing. Probably be fun to put a similar upgrade onto other ships, too.

Umm... While I understand why having the boost red in your suggestion is important (it is a small ship generic modification upgrade)... Apply the upgrade to the Scyk and ask yourself if you would seriously take it. Dial and Cartel Spacer for reference.

If you think of a Light Scyk as essentially being a TIE fighter, having even a red boost is a perk.

13 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

If you think of a Light Scyk as essentially being a TIE fighter, having even a red boost is a perk.

If it cost -2 to -3 points maybe. Even then red boost with the Scyk's dial and 3 hp amounts to free points for your opponent. Might as well take a bid instead.

18 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

If you think of a Light Scyk as essentially being a TIE fighter, having even a red boost is a perk.

1 minute ago, Hiemfire said:

If it cost -2 to -3 points maybe. Even then red boost with the Scyk's dial and 3 hp amounts to free points for your opponent. Might as well take a bid instead.

Because it's not just a slightly worse version of a TIE. It's a slightly worse version of a TIE entirely lacking in a ****load of synergies that elevate the TIE's effectiveness well above its cost.

Suppose then an entirely new Scum ship. 2/3/2/1 statline, Focus/Evade/Lock/Roll (all white), with a Red boost. Solid white dial, but not impressive blues. No upgrade slots. 24 points for an Init 1, 27 points for a Talented Init 3. It'd be 1 point more than an Academy or Black Squadron TIE for a few perks. Great tools for a blocker, with access to either boost or roll, as well as the capacity to set up a lock for next turn. I don't think it'd be *worse* than a Z-95 or Mining Guild TIE, just different.

Grand scheme, there's two ways to go with a Light Scyk. One is to transform it into an RZ-1 A-Wing or TIE/v1, with bonus actions and maybe more blue moves to support them, but probably at the current price-point. The other way is to transform it into a TIE/ln Fighter with fewer synergies, but some extra tricks like a boost and a lock. I think the second would be more interesting, and it limits creeping action economy. I mean, the current cheapest ship with a boost is the RZ-1 at 30 points. It'd be kind of a cool niche to have a Light Scyk with access to a red boost at 24 points.

I envision -3 points for this on a Scyk (probably -1 or 0 points on a Kihraxz... it'd be interesting there, too), with TPV down 2, and every other pilot down 1. Sunny Bounder as a 26 point filler, Laetin Ashera at 29, 30 for the token stacking Genesis Red, 31 for a Crack-Shot regenerating Quinn Jast. I dunno. I think that's kinda cool.

4 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Suppose then an entirely new Scum ship. 2/3/2/1 statline, Focus/Evade/Lock/Roll (all white), with a Red boost. Solid white dial, but not impressive blues. No upgrade slots. 24 points for an Init 1, 27 points for a Talented Init 3. It'd be 1 point more than an Academy or Black Squadron TIE for a few perks. Great tools for a blocker, with access to either boost or roll, as well as the capacity to set up a lock for next turn. I don't think it'd be *worse* than a Z-95 or Mining Guild TIE, just different.

Grand scheme, there's two ways to go with a Light Scyk. One is to transform it into an RZ-1 A-Wing or TIE/v1, with bonus actions and maybe more blue moves to support them, but probably at the current price-point. The other way is to transform it into a TIE/ln Fighter with fewer synergies, but some extra tricks like a boost and a lock. I think the second would be more interesting, and it limits creeping action economy. I mean, the current cheapest ship with a boost is the RZ-1 at 30 points. It'd be kind of a cool niche to have a Light Scyk with access to a red boost at 24 points.

I envision -3 points for this on a Scyk (probably -1 or 0 points on a Kihraxz... it'd be interesting there, too), with TPV down 2, and every other pilot down 1. Sunny Bounder as a 26 point filler, Laetin Ashera at 29, 30 for the token stacking Genesis Red, 31 for a Crack-Shot regenerating Quinn Jast. I dunno. I think that's kinda cool.

Your entirely new ship wouldn't see play.

In order at -3: 25, 27, 30, 31, 32... You have other cost reductions thrown in on top? Your numbers are off. As for the comparison with MGTs and Scum Zs... Other than Seevor, which of those ever see the table?

17 hours ago, Burius1981 said:

/joking is necessary I guess.

I assumed, possibly in error so correct me if I'm wrong, that the thread was about making M3As work in competitive lists. If I just feel like goofing off on casual night, then they are fine as is and there are plenty of goofy builds to mess with. Serissu with Autoblasters, Elusive, and Afterburners is fun, also Quinns with PRockets and Afterburners. But I'd be hard pressed to take any of them except maybe Sunny to a competitive event and that is a pretty big maybe since Seevor is also 30 points and is a pretty solid annoyance/support piece.

Doh! Didn't realize it was a joke. I should finish my coffee before posting. Crap! I am posting before coffee.

I've always been a champion of trying to make non-meta work in a competitive environment. I'm finding lately that I am just really out of it when discussing tournament games. I used to be able to talk about it and still make sense, but I should probably stay out of the discussion as I am feeling like it's a different game at this point.

EDIT: I do look forward to Epic Battles and the various changes to the game with Scenarios. I like to think I'm a competitive person, just not with Death Match.

10 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

You have other cost reductions thrown in on top? Your numbers are off.

As for the comparison with MGTs and Scum Zs... Other than Seevor, which of those ever see the table?

I already said that I envisioned a 2 point drop in TPV, and 1 point on anything else.

I guess what it comes down to is that I'm totally fine with the current status of the MGT (although Scum Zs need to come down a point). The limited MGT pilots are cute but niche, and the ship has an interesting movement trick. I think it's enough that they're fair on paper.

Meanwhile, just adding focus-linked actions and blues to a Scyk in exchange for hardpoint at their current cost would also probably result in an unplayed ship. Folks aren't using TIE/v1s without the Force, and RZ-1s aren't particularly common either. Jake sees some play, so maybe Serissu would too, but without weapons to make her attacks relevant, I'm not sure.

//

If going back to the drawing board on M3-As entirely, linked movement actions to Lock would be awesome. Imagine a Scyk with the action bar of the E-Wing, but otherwise exactly the same. Even with the garbage blues, it'd be a sweet and interesting design. A little niche, but really leaning into the glass cannon possibilities of a ship designed around Weapons Hardpoint.

I dropped my 4xTPV again last night, this time escorting Fearless Teroch instead of Zuckuss. I flew against a relatively new player (under one year) who had two Warden K's (one bomber, one missiles) and a PHAT Braylen. It is difficult to draw too many conclusions from this game, as my opponent is so new. I beat him, but he employed a sub-optimal turn 0-2 strategy - slow-rolling - which allowed me to engage his ships more or less one at a time. The conclusions I *can* draw: 1) Bullseye arc effects are money against medium (and large) bases, especially if they are slow-moving, lower Initiative, and/or lack repositioning. 2) Teroch is MUCH easier and more effective to use as bait than Zuckuss. 3) Green dice are still a *****.

Honestly, they aren't bad. They're just not good enough for the points. If they cost the same as a TIE, or even a point more, they'd be great little fillers if flown naked. The problem with them is that they pay a tax for that "Special" slot. And then you have to pay for the weapon itself. You end up paying twice for something that is often situational. Even if you don't fill that slot, you're still paying for that empty space, on a ship that can be one-shot off the board (as happened to me last night).

Reduce the price to TIE or near-TIE levels, then let people decide to load them up with points if they dare. And maybe they move from an optimistic B-tier to a solid A-tier ship giving you meaningful choices in the list building stage. Which is I think the best you can ask for any ship.