14 hours ago, Ralgon said:

Typically,survival of the fittest.

Human intervention is increasing the rate at which it's happening, sure. But while we continually play God and disturb the natural order by evolving ourselves and life spans through medicine, "enlightenment" and our compassion to otherwise selectively sustain the weak and defeat our natural popultion control it ain't gonna stop.

The counter view to this is that human intervention interrupts and prevents normal evolution mechanics from engaging. Sustainability as a concept is derived from the understanding that human activity creates such rapid and drastic change in ecosystems that species are unable to respond fast enough, and risk extinction. It's not survival of the fittest at that point. So sustainability looks for ways to reduce that human impact so that species actually have a chance to adapt on their own.

Saying "meh, it happens anyway" is the boiling frog syndrome, which leads to the frog's death.

20 minutes ago, kingbobb said:

The counter view to this is that human intervention interrupts and prevents normal evolution mechanics from engaging. Sustainability as a concept is derived from the understanding that human activity creates such rapid and drastic change in ecosystems that species are unable to respond fast enough, and risk extinction. It's not survival of the fittest at that point. So sustainability looks for ways to reduce that human impact so that species actually have a chance to adapt on their own.

Saying "meh, it happens anyway" is the boiling frog syndrome, which leads to the frog's death.

Wrong person to be aiming that argument at here.

I'm not trying to defend and justify the continued use and carbon footprint in the creation of products that serve no truely useful purpose by suggesting it's fine as long as the end product is "sustainable", which is just as blind as "meh, it happens anyway".......

1 hour ago, Ralgon said:

Wrong person to be aiming that argument at here.

I'm not trying to defend and justify the continued use and carbon footprint in the creation of products that serve no truely useful purpose by suggesting it's fine as long as the end product is "sustainable", which is just as blind as "meh, it happens anyway".......

I'm not sure I'm following you in all that, and I recognize that most of your post that I snipped was aimed at human impacts and our lack of controls on our own issues.

But I focused on the idea you posted that accelerated extinction rates...which most attribute to rapid climate and ecological change spurred directly or indirectly by human activity...was somehow a natural, normal thing. The concept of sustainability, if applied correctly, is a system thinking approach. Our efforts to be carbon neutral recognizes that on a large scale, if we counter the bad by making as much or more good inputs into the system, we might see localized, small scale changes, but will hopefully avoid the large scale disastrous impacts that otherwise will happen.

23 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

Political much?

Edit: Heck this whole thread should probably be locked before it really starts.

This whole thread is completely political, and should never have been started. If FFG had announced they were joining it might have worked, but otherwise it comes across as pushing a particular political agenda. Be no different than if I started a thread about using game companies to support gun rights.

17 hours ago, Ralgon said:

Typically,survival of the fittest.

Human intervention is increasing the rate at which it's happening, sure. But while we continually play God and disturb the natural order by evolving ourselves and life spans through medicine, "enlightenment" and our compassion to otherwise selectively sustain the weak and defeat our natural popultion control it ain't gonna stop.

Take gridloc for example ( and this isn't personal man, you're just here with your above post as an example)

"I drive an electric car" - how much extra mining for rare earth materials had to happen to build the batteries to build said electric? Are those batteries recyclable? And where the recharge power coming from really? True Green methods or "we'll just do it our way and buy offsets to fix it"?

"I'm saving for solar" better option than most but barely, until we get better production methods the carbon footprint building them is only offset after several years of being in use. And that's if they see full service life.

As for recycling, do a search on the Australian condition in the state of Victoria at the moment. Tl'dr a major recycler went bust and we found most of it was just being shipped to Indonesia/ China anyway.

Mean time through medicine, aged care and technology he's going to live 4-5 times the lifetime of his far ancestors,as are his kids, as are those after them. Babies that shouldn't survive childbirth are born and sustained every day. Humans have a sustainability problem of their own making, and refuse to deal with it out of compassion.

Initiatives to save life on the planet are a good thing for our kids kids (forget about the notion to "save the planet" that's another heap of bantha doo to play to our humanity in saving ourselves, the planet will barely notice us after we are gone) But there really is an awful lot of Koolaid being drunk on the subject of just what is and what isn't actually helping.

Edit: I should add, that against a backdrop of views like that(and they are mine, I don't expect to convert anybody) any company that sells consumerism for consumerisms sake trying to promote its sustainability, just comes off like bury you deep bantha doo. Now I'm gonna stfu for this topic.

Current electricity comes from the car. Hybrids use the motion created by gas to generate electricity to power the batteries. Its not a fully electric, which i would love to get once pricing comes down. My local area has multiple charging areas that are runoff mostly solar power.

solar power isn't 'top of the line' but to get there you have to have interest and people buying into the product. Sure there might be a massive solar break through days after i get mine, but still doesn't mean i'm goign to keep waiting till its mainstream.

So one recycler went out of business so who industry is pointless? Even if only 1% of my recycling gets reused, thats 1% less.

You seem to be saying the same thing I hear all the time, why make a change its too small to matter... For that I'm sorry that is your reasoning. Change isn't easy and most who refuse to are usually lazy, fearful, or really are unable to afford it because new is expensive. However your lack of change because of your perceived uselessness of the actions is your choice. I'm not forcing anyone to change, but will state my reason to persuade other why leaving less of a carbon foot print on this world in hopes that our children's and their kids lives improve.

1 hour ago, Alpha17 said:

This whole thread is completely political, and should never have been started. If FFG had announced they were joining it might have worked, but otherwise it comes across as pushing a particular political agenda. Be no different than if I started a thread about using game companies to support gun rights.

I disagree. Yes, it is political, but also related to this game. I mentioned Ares Games as they release a similar product to FFG in their battlestar galactica game (compared to x-wing). Knowing that some companies are willing to try to help the quality of life for other human beings is not a bad thing. While, they are still a business that wants to make a profit, being willing to take a less profit to help make sure those producing our little toys have improved safety, wage, and all around working conditions is a good thing. Even if it comes at increasing my cost.

You example of using games to support guns rights is not even the same thing. What this program is about improving the condition of human beings, which is not the same as owning an object - unless you are advocating that the workers should be considered property? Somehow, I doubt that, but you never know.

I don't know where or when exactly treating other people (the workers) with a modicum of respect, became a “political issue”, but if that is the case then this certainly IS the right place to talk about it. I posted this because I think it is an admirable first step, and in the hopes that another company I support (FFG) may take similar steps.

2 hours ago, Alpha17 said:

This whole thread is completely political, and should never have been started. If FFG had announced they were joining it might have worked, but otherwise it comes across as pushing a particular political agenda. Be no different than if I started a thread about using game companies to support gun rights.

Gun-owner rights have nothing to do about toy production (this coming from a gun-owner and 2A supporter).

How toys are produced has a direct relation to this game where toys are produced to play it.

You're way off base here, and by the way, how did "don't use slaves" and "don't abuse child labor" become a "political agenda" to you? Did you actually bother to read the Ethical Toy Program?

PS Looks like Hasbro is attempting to phase out plastic packaging by 2020

FFG should follow suit.

4 hours ago, kris40k said:

Gun-owner rights have nothing to do about toy production (this coming from a gun-owner and 2A supporter).

How toys are produced has a direct relation to this game where toys are produced to play it.

You're way off base here, and by the way, how did "don't use slaves" and "don't abuse child labor" become a "political agenda" to you? Did you actually bother to read the Ethical Toy Program?

PS Looks like Hasbro is attempting to phase out plastic packaging by 2020

FFG should follow suit.

This thread has really nothing to do with the purpose of these forums, everyone has their opinion, but honestly this would be better discussed in a different type of forum, also something I've learned is our online opinion really doesn't matter, we could fight about this till the world ends and it still will not affect what actually happens regarding FFG joining this program or climate change in general

2 hours ago, TheHoosh said:

This thread has really nothing to do with the purpose of these forums, everyone has their opinion, but honestly this would be better discussed in a different type of forum, also something I've learned is our online opinion really doesn't matter, we could fight about this till the world ends and it still will not affect what actually happens regarding FFG joining this program or climate change in general

Discussions over the packaging of Legion products and their production methods are not a new thing to this forum . I don't see why you feel its suddenly inappropriate.

Also, the X-Wing community has seen publicly debated changes implemented by FFG. I remember many debates about 2E and conversion kits that many said "would never work", and here we are...

13 hours ago, Gridloc said:

Current electricity comes from the car. Hybrids use the motion created by gas to generate electricity to power the batteries. Its not a fully electric, which i would love to
You seem to be saying the same thing I hear all the time, why make a change its too small to matter... For that I'm sorry that is your reasoning. Change isn't easy and most who refuse to are usually lazy, fearful, or really are unable to afford it because new is expensive. However your lack of change because of your perceived uselessness of the actions is your choice. I'm not forcing anyone to change, but will state my reason to persuade other why leaving less of a carbon foot print on this world in hopes that our children's and their kids lives improve.

And I guess your missing my real point, which is if anyone here really believed in that last paragraph they wouldn't be here supporting little plastic toys aimed at adults no matter how sustainable it is, because sustainable and recycleable is not zero impact, no matter which way you slice it.

1 - Games should be ethically produced, ensuring workers rights, health and safety, and not polluting the environment.

2 - The amount of waste packaging in the FFG Legion products so far is just offensive.

Shameless “bump”...

As an aside, I saw the movie in 1977 as a 9 year old wide eyed optimist. My life took many turns due to unseen and UWARRANTED vicissitudes.. I am not complaining however...

Stewardship of disposable income - to China and/or Hong Kong or wherever. We free democratic people, Christian... Americans, love freedom of opinion and spoken thereof (speech). Let not the family of FFG (CHRISTian son of PETER) be ruined by trade battles and irresponsible wages along with plastic pollutants. Give thanks that all who contribute with equality and diversity to these forums and let us all use God given talents to enjoy company with others over little battles after all other general duties to God and fellow man (yes that is all genders) are complete.

Pray for ALL staff regardless of sexual preference, political bent or other religion that we join to recognise that we are all made in the image of God and deserve respect. This will be shown by understanding the plight of others not so lucky as ourselves.

God Bless All who are members of the Christian T Petersen (FFG) family and bring those who are not in Christ Jesus to almighty God (to Him). May FFG prosper and ALL families foreign or other who work for OUR enjoyment be properly and righteously paid. So be it.

I really appreciate the decision not to open an “off topic” or a politics and religion forum for this wonderful game. I believe the community is responsive enough to care for each other and to engage in free dialogue respectfully.

7 hours ago, GhengisharnIV said:

I believe the community is responsive enough to care for each other and to engage in free dialogue respectfully

As long as we don't talk about The Last Jedi.

On 8/21/2019 at 11:05 PM, Empire On Ice said:

1 - Games should be ethically produced, ensuring workers rights, health and safety, and not polluting the environment.

2 - The amount of waste packaging in the FFG Legion products so far is just offensive.

It is and that's why I burn all the packaging once I put my models together along with all my other trash

-May the venial sins not lead down the pathweg auf mortal oder eternal sin! Let it be a gift of life und nix gift auf poison. Yes, long live the luther evanglisch religion Ghengisharn...

-May send all miniature making requests to Oberammergau so that they can make the miniatures utilizing their local renewable resources and skills.

-Halt sending to Chi and the Osterasian nations!

On 8/24/2019 at 3:31 PM, wintermoonwolf said:

-May the venial sins not lead down the pathweg auf mortal oder eternal sin! Let it be a gift of life und nix gift auf poison. Yes, long live the luther evanglisch religion Ghengisharn...

-May send all miniature making requests to Oberammergau so that they can make the miniatures utilizing their local renewable resources and skills.

-Halt sending to Chi and the Osterasian nations!

Amen, shalom and emmet my brother moonwolf

Carbon dioxide plant breathers (brother triffids) wish to know - are the East Asian nations (must be to my west) the best at ethical, mini cheap production or is the west the best? Are they double plus good?

Humans OTOH wish to ask will oberammergau send minis with excessive, carbon dioxide polluting packaging for us lowly oxygen thieves (packing not people) when burnt for warmth as I may have to decide between warming my gaming fingers or watching frozen pinkies drop my nicely painted landspeeder... is local 4U (if not so forward) manufacturer East or West so we may purvey said minis?

We do not wish to break the law. No Zone, no ozone...

Geez. This thread is turning into Timecube.

Jawohl … aus Holzschnitzerei enummieren … mass fabriquation … wunderbar!!!

On 8/25/2019 at 10:02 PM, TauntaunScout said:

Geez. This thread is turning into Timecube.

Relax dude, just plastic and cardboard bits in the 3 dimensions. The spirit world does not exist here...

On 8/26/2019 at 8:02 AM, wintermoonwolf said:

Jawohl … aus Holzschnitzerei enummieren … mass fabriquation … wunderbar!!!

Watching this reminds my midichlorians to get wood...