For those of your who have played this list/variant, how do you feel about it? Is it exceptionally good? Is it good against I6 aces?

Tavson really that strong? Over Thanisson and just generic SKB Ups?

No upgrades on Kylo? Or Advanced Optics? (Seems like Hate is less useful)

What is your opening position for this list, especially with 2 Upsilons?

With QD/Kylo/Tavson it's generally only Fanatical + FCS + Gunner on QD @199pts or 200 with Biohex on Tavson. All three give your opponent bad choices to shoot at: QD with revenge shot, Tavson with actions and Kylo with 3agi+force+ISYTDS. Either split all ships up to try to flank from both sides or Kylo off on his own and Tavson with QD for a joust.

With Kylo+2UPS it's always Tavson and a SBP because of how awesome Tavson is. When I ran this list I would have both UPS facing each other in a corner for the first 2 (maybe three) rounds generally. Fly aggressive with Kylo to bait your opponent into a direction then release the UPS to take advantage of Kylo drawing them to you. It gives you an indication of what channels through the rocks you can safely fly the UPS and break up your opponent's formation.

Nowadays it might be frowned upon stalling them for more than 2 rounds.

Tavson further up front to give an appealing target with the SKB a range band back. I almost never reinforced unless I was up against a Swarm as it allowed the most efficient actions for offence. Focus first then when taking damage TL a good target and Coordinate the other UPS for mods on both 4 die shots.

If they go for the SKB then ok you still have a single modded shot with Tavson and he gets more dangerous once your opponent has less ships on the board.

The UPS job is to kill and carry Kylo to the end game, not survive, so focus on being aggressive and disruptive with those big bases. Don't be afraid to self bump as 4-5 die shots u modded can still be devastating.

I'm a bit surprised about fortressing the opening, that sounds like it doesn't give you as many options.

If you commit to Kylo and Tavson as the base of list I think there is a lot of flexibility.

Personally, I like crack shot Recoil in place of QuickDraw.

8 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

I'm a bit surprised about fortressing the opening, that sounds like it doesn't give you as many options.

It gives you more options, starting in the corner allows you to reduce your opponents channels of attack and forces them to come at you through the rocks or a straight joust.

Once you know where your opponent is going you can break out and manouvre towards them. If they set up for a straight joust you come straight out with hard 2's and joust. Tavson should be facing towards the other side of the starting zone and the SKB is facing the close edge but far enough back that a hard two keeps you on the board.

Tavson can hard two, straight three or three bank out, or wait for the SKB to come out with the hard two and then any move will work.

If they come from the far side of the board then you can hard two twice with SKB while Tavson stops then one straights or two banks.

You can see my starting spots below (from back in March with different points) :

Here’s a blackout tavson qd game vs rebel beef before points change, 1st game on stream, opening was tavson in corner pointing at center, blackout a third of the way across and qd other corner opposite the rebel beef.

after points change blackout can change torps to plasma and all is good.

I have run 2 ups lists quite a bit but lack of manoeuvreablity causes problems with certain lists.

5 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

I'm a bit surprised about fortressing the opening, that sounds like it doesn't give you as many options.

You don’t necessarily have to fortress, but generally speaking I also like to slow roll them and throw Kylo up in front as bait. I’ve had success starting the UPSs together and alternating Stop/bump maneuvers until ready to pounce, as well as starting them in opposite corners and then slow-rolling with one while swooping in with the other (those 3 banks cover a lot of distance). Either way goal is to keep the opponent’s ships where at least one, preferably both, of your UPSs can fire on them.

A few other tips:

I’ve also had success with Blackout + 2 SKBs, which gives you room for Pattern Analyzer on all 3 ships. Blackout can get some work done, especially with coordinates from the UPSs letting him set up obstructed shots, and it’s nice always having your actions.

With the striker I like to drive in hard at the beginning, draw attention, and try to get the opponent to chase it, while pounding on them with the UPSs. Most people will chase the striker, but the striker is tough enough that it can tank for a few rounds, especially if it’s Kylo. Then, after you’ve killed a few enemy ships they are usually too weak to chew through the UPSs 24 shields+hull before you can destroy them. The only games I’ve lost with this list are when they ignored the striker and went for the UPSs first.

Also, bring Gas Clouds. The UPSs can pretty much ignore them, making it easier to maneuver them, and the striker loves the boosted defense, and your ships (especially the Blackout variant) put out enough damage that they can still kill enemy ships without much difficulty.

Optics and Hate are wonderful on Kylo, QD loves Fanatical, FCS, and SF Gunner.

Tavson is awesome against aces, because he can reinforce fore, weather some damage, and return fire with a fully modded 4-5 dice gun.

It is not very good if you are not very good.

(like me)

I played it a bit , and even took it to a tournament. I took pattern analyzers on QD, but would probably change that for Fanatical and FCS. Kylo and Tavson don't need upgrades.

I found that, unlike the Lambda, you have to move quite fast to set up a good position with the Upsilon. Bumping, stopping and 1-forward makes it easier for your opponent to get into a position to avoid it. I usually set up in the corner and 3-bank in on the first turn.

The reason I (almost) stopped playing the list is that I don't think QD carries enought. He doesn't have the tools to be a real ace (afterburners?), and isn't that great at jousting. (Although this might just be me never really figuring out how to play the SF. It's not really my style)

I liked it but it does require a plan and a good understanding of your opponents capabilities. I found quickdraw to be more forgiving than a 2nd upsilon. That being said for high level play the 2nd upsilon probably has more upside.

Tavson is awesome he is the best upsilon pilot at this moment. I've literally had an opponent decide it wasnt worth it to shoot him.

I did not use upgrades with tavson or kylo. With quickdraw you want sf gunner and at least fire control system.

Lately I haven't been able to play as much and started running multiple sf's as they are more forgiving. You have to make it hard for them to get around the upsilons and that can be hard to if you do not get enough reps.

I've got tons of reps with 2 upsilons.

Played Lambda + 2 Upsilons into wins in 1.0 lol