13 hours ago, Noosh said:

I mean I really hate to be pushy, but your joke really needed to be grounded.

Really? It wasn't as charged as a lot of my other comments on here in the past.

Come on guys, let's reel in all of these meta jokes. They are getting away from us.

I'm not really excited for it. It's never been seen before so I have no existing attachment to it, I don't especially like the aesthetic (and I don't think it's goes well, stylistically, with the rest of the faction), and jeez! The price!

2 hours ago, mazz0 said:

I'm not really excited for it. It's never been seen before so I have no existing attachment to it, I don't especially like the aesthetic (and I don't think it's goes well, stylistically, with the rest of the faction), and jeez! The price!

What changes would you make TO make it a better fit stylistically? What is it’s “problem”, given it’s source description and background?

Because that’s the comment I can’t find any common ground with...

6 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

What changes would you make TO make it a better fit stylistically? What is it’s “problem”, given it’s source description and background?

Because that’s the comment I can’t find any common ground with...

I dunno, the colours maybe? Something about the finish? I just can't picture it alongside an MC80 or Neb B without looking incongruous. In a way it's fine for rebel ships to look eclectic, that's kinda their thing, but they usually look eclectic in an in-universe way, not in a different-line-of-toys way. It's the same with all the cartoon based ships in X-Wing; the ships from the films and the games and the comics etc (all the old EU stuff) look like they're from one product line, while the cartoon ships look like they're from another. It could be the same thing I'm feeling here, but I'm not sure. I'm not even sure about my feeling on the aesthetics - sometimes when I look I quite like it. <shrugs>

By far the biggest reason I'm not excited is cos it's new. I'm most excited when something I already like is coming out, especially if I've liked it for a long time.

Let's have a pic to remind everyone what we're talking about.

I mean, given that it’s distinctly “New Republic” and not “Rebel”, I think my brain codified the difference as such

I'm really looking forward to this ship and the Onager too.

We've grown accustomed to seeing large Mon Calamari ships as the heavy-hitters of the Alliance fleet. Their design is much rounder and much softer as compared to the Starhawk. So, I think it's only natural to experience some discomfort with the design of the battleship.

The very basic description for the Starhawk in the Aftermath series left quite a bit of space open for further development of the ship. I can see the "hatchet" shape in the front of the ship, and the recycled ISD components are very evident. So, my expectations for the Starhawk are indeed fulfilled in regards to the novels. Now comes the further development part. I see some design elements inspired by the Hammerhead Corvette, the CR90 Corvette, and the Nebulon B Frigate. First is the hatchet front connected to the engine "module" rear by a slender/longish mid section. This is in line with the design of the Hammerhead and the Nebulon B. Also notice the angular nature of the engine area of both ships, and compare that to the design of the hull around the Starhawk's engines. The underside of the mid section of the Starhawk bears an interesting similarity in geometric design to the forward mid section of a CR90 Corvette, from just behind the command module to just aft of the paired turbolasers. You can see this best when viewing the CR90 from the rear.

I think the biggest difference between the Starhawk and canon Alliance vessels is in the colors chosen for exterior hull markings. Most Alliance vessels have a base gray accented with dull earth tones, some reds, and orange. The Starhawk is base gray with bright blue and yellow. I see this as a visual representation of the transition of the Alliance into the New Republic.

9 hours ago, mazz0 said:

I dunno, the colours maybe? Something about the finish?

If only there were some substance we could apply to change those... Maybe in a wide array of colors so everyone could suit their personal taste. I don’t know, probably crazy.

In all seriousness though, teal and yellow is a weird choice but easy to fix. I was expecting an objection to the model.

IMHO, it has some scale issues.

That hangar bay on the front, for example - given the size of the ship, that's roughly large enough for three CR90s to be coming in or out at the same time, side-by-side. Yet there isn't really anything about the rest of the design that suggests it has hangar capacity to demand that kind of launch/recover capacity.

Similarly, the what-I'm-assuming "bridge" viewport just a bit above the hangar. If you look at your other ships - especially those in the same scale, such as the ISD or Home One-type, the bridge areas are just specific structural components. At the scale these models are, there is just no way (or need to) represent the actual windows/viewports, as they are too small. IE., as with the hangar bay, as rendered, it's far too big - those bridge windows would have to be 40 or 50 feet high to be visible at that size on this ship.

I'd say there are problems with the color scheme, too - the brightness and being primary colors tends to make a ship feel 'smaller'...however that may be just down to the render. BoLS has some pictures of the actual model on display at GenCon, and it does appear that slightly bit "dirtier" that you would expect of a ship of this size. https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2019/08/ffg-gencon-2019.html

FWIW, I don't hate it, and I think the worst of the scale/perspective problems will resolve themselves when it is deployed in a mixed fleet - IE., with a tiny bug of a Nebulon-B flying alongside it, it should actually look pretty cool.

15 hours ago, mazz0 said:

Let's have a pic to remind everyone what we're talking about.

Darken the yellow and swap the blue for red and I think it would fit in fine imo.

9 hours ago, xanderf said:

IMHO, it has some scale issues.

That hangar bay on the front, for example - given the size of the ship, that's roughly large enough for three CR90s to be coming in or out at the same time, side-by-side. Yet there isn't really anything about the rest of the design that suggests it has hangar capacity to demand that kind of launch/recover capacity.

Similarly, the what-I'm-assuming "bridge" viewport just a bit above the hangar. If you look at your other ships - especially those in the same scale, such as the ISD or Home One-type, the bridge areas are just specific structural components. At the scale these models are, there is just no way (or need to) represent the actual windows/viewports, as they are too small. IE., as with the hangar bay, as rendered, it's far too big - those bridge windows would have to be 40 or 50 feet high to be visible at that size on this ship.

I'd say there are problems with the color scheme, too - the brightness and being primary colors tends to make a ship feel 'smaller'...however that may be just down to the render. BoLS has some pictures of the actual model on display at GenCon, and it does appear that slightly bit "dirtier" that you would expect of a ship of this size. https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2019/08/ffg-gencon-2019.html

FWIW, I don't hate it, and I think the worst of the scale/perspective problems will resolve themselves when it is deployed in a mixed fleet - IE., with a tiny bug of a Nebulon-B flying alongside it, it should actually look pretty cool.

I don’t think that’s a hangar bay in the front, it’s a massive and powerful tractor beam.

6 minutes ago, ninclouse2000 said:

I don’t think that’s a hangar bay in the front, it’s a massive and powerful tractor beam.

I believe it’s both. Look at the very top left upgrade card. The last word in the name is Crystals and it looks like each nub around the hangar bay opening is a tractor beam. All 6 are dragging a single decent size ship in.

12 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:

Darken the yellow and swap the blue for red and I think it would fit in fine imo.

I was actually thinking of replacing the yellow and teal both, with a deeper blue.

Have we theory-crafted the ships card stats yet?

I'm thinking with the 6/4/4/3 (2?) split, we get 12 Hull, and a Speed chart of Speed 1 with 1 Yaw and she tops out at Speed 2 with 1 Yaw.

Then two versions, a brawler, and a command type. They will both be Command 3, and Engineering 4, but with different squad values - 4 (Command) and 2 (Brawler)

When I look at the picture I see the command type; with 4 reds, 2 blue, 2 black at the front arc, and 2 red, 2 blue, 1 black out the side arc. Looks like 1 blue 1 red or 1 black 1 red out of the rear arc, and blue/black anti squad. There will be a Commander, Officer and Title Upgrade Icon for both variants.

Every Rebel ship released so far that can toss Black die against ships has one Ordnance Upgrade Icon, (this is not true for Imperials, however) and I think the Command version of the Starhawk will be the first Rebel ship without it, despite it having black die to shoot with. The Command version will have one Weapons Team, one Offensive Retrofit, one Fleet Command, one Ion Cannon, and one Turbolasers in addition to the standard mentioned above.

I think the differences in the Brawler version will have two Offensive Retrofit slots, and no Fleet Command, making it the first Rebel ship to field two O Retros, primarily to enhance i's role as a brawler - get one of the Boarding upgrades, and Tractor Beams or Hardened Bulkheads, or the new ATN, or Proxy Mines.

The die in the arcs will have more black, less red and blue, and I think anti-squad stays the same.

They both may have a Defensive Retrofit, but I'm leaning against seeing them on her outside of a title or unspoiled upgrade. . Speaking of titles and upgrades the Magnite Chrystal, will be some kind of tractor beam/immobilizer. And for the titles...

Amity looks like it's going to be a Garel's Honor type of ramming' ...maybe, "while executing a maneuver deal one extra damage card for each size class a ship is small than you that you overlapped" - the wording is wonky but the idea is one extra damage for the smaller the ship so mediums are dealt two damage cards and small are dealt three damage cards.

Concord - looks like this is the title meant to go ship-to-ship, probably something simple like "While attacking a ship your size or larger (hint hint vs SSD) add one color die that's already in the attack pool.

Unity - this ones the hardest to think about, I'm leaning towards something to do with squadrons that will work well with the Command variant since Concord works with both and Amity is geared more towards the brawler, and Wedge Officer is coming giving squads cloak or some such. My guess is: Squadrons you activate that attack enemy squadrons already engaged with friendly squadrons may set one die to a [acc] or [hit] face. I really have no idea on this one.

They claimed it was built using Star Destroyer parts, but in all honesty, I just am not seeing any piece resembling that of a star destroyer except the shield generator globes. The over all hammer head look just feels over done, and the rest of the design looks like a thickened up Nebulon B. There is just something about it that screams "made in 30 minutes over a cup of coffee" instead of a well designed thought out star wars ship.

1 hour ago, Zeoinx said:

They claimed it was built using Star Destroyer parts, but in all honesty, I just am not seeing any piece resembling that of a star destroyer except the shield generator globes. The over all hammer head look just feels over done, and the rest of the design looks like a thickened up Nebulon B. There is just something about it that screams "made in 30 minutes over a cup of coffee" instead of a well designed thought out star wars ship.

Eh, ships are complex things and in "refit" - even of the same ship - a lot of exterior details can be wildly different.

If you consider the "major" parts of a ship, the things it is literally BUILT around, in this setting we're talking about the sublight engines, hyperdrives, shields, weapon systems, etc. Durasteel hull is just...durasteel, it's nothing special to save, and even if you do it can be (presumably) re-shaped easily enough. Re-using engines, hyperdrives, shields, turbolaser batteries - those are going to be the BIG cost savers when breaking something down and re-using it, and aren't generally going to jump out at you in the model. (Although at least a bit - I think I recall seeing a video showing the engines definitely did have that Star Destroyer sort of vibe, and of course you note the shield generators as well)

It's not teal! Teal has more green in it than that.

What are some counter strategies if you’re imperial and you see this big boi across the table. I’m thinking heavy ions cause the star hawk has all the shields. Maybe imperial Msu will finally have a role to play?

1 hour ago, Belisarius09 said:

What are some counter strategies if you’re imperial and you see this big boi across the table. I’m thinking heavy ions cause the star hawk has all the shields. Maybe imperial May will finally have a role to play?

I won't know yet until we see it's Hull and and Defensive Tokens. It may not have redundant redirects, and instead have Brace/Redirect/Contain/Salvo so Xi7s might suit better than HIEs, and since Rebels usually have fewer Hull points, APTs for an ordnance slot. A good reason Versio / Raider combo might work well against Rebels who can now take a counter-attack.

If it combines all the great things about the three Rebel larges - the tankiness of the MC80, the firepower of the MC80L and the sweet arcs of the MC75, she'll be a tough nut to crack. If they designed her more like "official cannon" as an SSD / ISD counter, I expect it to be about 1/3rd the strength of an SSD, but stronger than an ISD. It's all just silly guesses from me right now though.

1 hour ago, eliteone said:

I won't know yet until we see it's Hull and and Defensive Tokens. It may not have redundant redirects, and instead have Brace/Redirect/Contain/Salvo so Xi7s might suit better than HIEs, and since Rebels usually have fewer Hull points, APTs for an ordnance slot. A good reason Versio / Raider combo might work well against Rebels who can now take a counter-attack.

If it combines all the great things about the three Rebel larges - the tankiness of the MC80, the firepower of the MC80L and the sweet arcs of the MC75, she'll be a tough nut to crack. If they designed her more like "official cannon" as an SSD / ISD counter, I expect it to be about 1/3rd the strength of an SSD, but stronger than an ISD. It's all just silly guesses from me right now though.

Judging by the defense tokens in its spread - exactly enough for its commander +4 more copies of 'Salvo', and no other defense tokens at all...it's a compelling argument that it really does just have 4 copies of 'salvo'. (Which we don't know what it does beyond acting at least a bit like a ship-based 'Counter'-keyword squadron. For all we know it lets you halve the incoming damage, move 1 pt to an adjacent hull zone, AND letting you return fire out that arc, up to your battery armament or total damage taken on that hull zone, whichever is lowest.)

17 minutes ago, xanderf said:

Judging by the defense tokens in its spread - exactly enough for its commander +4 more copies of 'Salvo', and no other defense tokens at all...it's a compelling argument that it really does just have 4 copies of 'salvo'. (Which we don't know what it does beyond acting at least a bit like a ship-based 'Counter'-keyword squadron. For all we know it lets you halve the incoming damage, move 1 pt to an adjacent hull zone, AND letting you return fire out that arc, up to your battery armament or total damage taken on that hull zone, whichever is lowest.)

Compelling, sure, but I can't see that happening. Two stock Salvo's at most. I would think both the Onager and the Starhawk will come with non-Commander upgrades that give Salvo tokens to other ships. Probably O. Retrofit slots. 6 points.

2 minutes ago, eliteone said:

Compelling, sure, but I can't see that happening. Two stock Salvo's at most. I would think both the Onager and the Starhawk will come with non-Commander upgrades that give Salvo tokens to other ships. Probably O. Retrofit slots. 6 points.

But then it has no other defense tokens. Agate (Commander) can take any non-scatter defense token, so "needs" (to the extent we ever NEED more defense tokens in any given expansion 🙄 ) one copy of each non-scatter defense token. The fan shows exactly that - one copy of each non-scatter defense token plus 4 more 'salvo' defense tokens (for 5 total of them).

While the cards in the fan are usually incomplete to hide certain upgrades from being spoiled, I don't think we've yet seen a release where the command dials and defense tokens weren't exactly what was needed by the ship and its upgrades, and nothing more or less...

I will tell you right now the spread does not show us everything so I find near impossible to predict it token suite.

19 minutes ago, xanderf said:

But then it has no other defense tokens. Agate (Commander) can take any non-scatter defense token, so "needs" (to the extent we ever NEED more defense tokens in any given expansion 🙄 ) one copy of each non-scatter defense token.

Yeah, but Thrawn also "needs" three additional command dials but how many are there in the chimera expansion? Zero.

So who knows what we will get.