When I measure range to and from a ship, do I include the plastic bases?

Squadron attacks explicitly state that you measure from base to base, but ship attacks say 'hull zone'.

Hull zones are only on cardboard... So if you are measuring attacks, it’s from cardboard to cardboard, ship to ship.

But if it’s a non-attack distance (Home one, Tractor Beams, etc), then that is plastic to plastic too.

2 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Hull zones are only on cardboard... So if you are measuring attacks, it’s from cardboard to cardboard, ship to ship.

But if it’s a non-attack distance (Home one, Tractor Beams, etc), then that is plastic to plastic too.

Thank you. Consistency would make it easier to learn! (X-wing is also inconsistent, but only when concerning nubs on bases and tokens.)

This might help you, check out the rest of my channel as well!

4 hours ago, Karneck said:

This might help you, check out the rest of my channel as well!

I watched it, along with quite a few others - it's why I decided to ask the question - you'd said in it that ships measure to and from hull zones, but hadn't explained that this did not include the plastic bases - coming from x-wing, attack ranges are measured from the plastic base, but are still called 'firing arcs'. So I wanted explicit confirmation.

Very helpful videos you've made, as I'm sure you already know!

1 hour ago, Gilarius said:

So I wanted explicit confirmation.

The easy way to remember is that the "hull zone" is the bit marked out on the cardboard (because that's the bit that is split into zones), but the "ship" includes the plastic. So if anything references the distance to the hull zone it must be the cardboard, but if it talks about measuring to a ship it is to the plastic.

Then you have the shield dials and the plastic around them - but they only count for overlapping obstacles, ships and squadrons. The rest of the time you can pretend they don't exist. And the ship model itself is just for decoration.

On 8/12/2019 at 1:08 AM, Grumbleduke said:

The easy way to remember is that the "hull zone" is the bit marked out on the cardboard (because that's the bit that is split into zones), but the "ship" includes the plastic. So if anything references the distance to the hull zone it must be the cardboard, but if it talks about measuring to a ship it is to the plastic.

Then you have the shield dials and the plastic around them - but they only count for overlapping obstacles, ships and squadrons. The rest of the time you can pretend they don't exist. And the ship model itself is just for decoration.

Not only. The shield count as ship base.

The shield dial is ignored:

• when measuring line of sight through other ships. It is not ignored for the attacking and defending ship, only for these that might obstuct (learned it the hard way 😁 )
• checking if a ship is outside the play area
• when measuring firing arc, range or distance

But the fact that it count as ship base is really important when placing the SSD for example.

On 8/13/2019 at 2:10 PM, Tokra said:

when measuring line of sight through other ships. It is not ignored for the attacking and defending ship, only for these that might obstuct (learned it the hard way 😁 )

I probably misunderstand you but that doesnt make much sense...

this sounds like your own or your targets shield dial would break line of sight, which it does not.

i guess what you mean to say is that the shield dial of other ships are ignored when determining obstructions via line of sight checks.

17 hours ago, RapidReload said:

I probably misunderstand you but that doesnt make much sense...

this sounds like your own or your targets shield dial would break line of sight, which it does not.

i guess what you mean to say is that the shield dial of other ships are ignored when determining obstructions via line of sight checks.

Your own (in this case the attacker and target) does not count.

Only these of ahips that are between the target and attacker.

11 hours ago, Tokra said:

Your own (in this case the attacker and target) does not count. Only these of ships that are between the target and attacker.

The FAQ makes it pretty clear that shield dials don't block line of sight:

Quote

Q: While measuring line of sight, if a ship is in the way, do its shield dials and their plastic frames affect line of sight in any way?
A: No. However, when determining line of sight, all of the other parts of a ship’s plastic base can obstruct line of sight.

So shield dials are ignored for determining line of sight.

I get the argument that this rule only applies to "third party" ships (so not the attacker or defender), but that doesn't make any difference normally, as line of sight is only obstructed by third party ships anyway.

So whether it applies to the attacker or defender only comes up when thinking about obstruction due to obstacles (where line of sight goes over the obstacle, but that part of the obstacle is underneath a shield dial). Iirc that has been ruled at worlds and nationals as still being obstructed (so the attacker's and defender's shield dials are ignored for line of sight). I guess the argument being that those shield dials are still part of the ship, so are still "a ship ... in the way".

The Rules Reference tells us to ignore Shield Dials for firing arcs, range, distance and going out of the play area (which has been interpreted as covering deployment), but do count for overlapping. The Rules Reference says nothing about Shield Dials for line of sight, hence the FAQ.