The rules for Squads in Rise of the Separatists are somewhat ambiguous, but they work pretty well for adversaries or allied (but separate) squads. However, in scenarios where a PC is going to lead a squad long term, or their squad contains 1 or more PCs, I believe the rules to be rather insufficient.

Making Attacks: The book doesn't state how to make attacks with squads. As far as I can tell, there are two (possible, not stated) options, 1. Split the Squad into minion groups , 2. Make an attack with the Squad as a whole ([only if attacking another Squad of minions?] add damage equal to attacking minions in acting Squad).

House rules for Squads led by and/or containing PC(s).

1. Benefits of formations apply to all PCs and NPCs in Squad
2. NPC Squad members have one additional upgrade for primary group attack, and have Rival-level Wound Thresholds (and Critical behaviors?). For attacks they behave like Minions, you can either split them into Minion Groups, or use them to attack as a Squad (see Making Attacks paragraph). You can also give them 1 rank in another skill per Minval (Minion-Rival ) (i.e. the NPC Clone Trooper radio operator has Mechanics 1, Computers 1, Ranged (Heavy) 1+Group, Athletics (group), Brawl (group), Discipline (group), Vigilance (group))
3. Minvals increase in ability over time. They are not supposed to be on the level of the PCs, but this keeps them relevant.
4. The objective of this is to allow character development of companion NPCs and foster PC attachment to said NPCs while not cluttering up initiative slots, and keeping them inferior to the PCs, allowing the PCs to stand out from the rank in file.

Finally, a new formation, Shield Wall, increases Deflection quality on M3 Bulwark Combat Shield to 3 and allows them to duck out of direct line of fire. Requires them to line up next to each other, meaning that each member is engaged with 2 Squad members on either side (visual demonstration, [N=no, Y=yes, T=target] NYYTYYNNN).

What are your opinions on these tweaks? Is there anything you think I missed?

I forgot to mention (though it sort of goes without saying), but PCs still get their own initiative slots, and they get the benefits of Formations unless they "Break Formation" whatever that entails for whatever formation they are using.

46 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

However, in scenarios where a PC is going to lead a squad long term, or their squad contains 1 or more PCs, I believe the rules to be rather insufficient.  

You cannot have more than 1 PC in a squad. Per RotS136, a character " can lead up to 10 allied minions…. " If more than 1 PC wants to be in a squad, each one must form their own.

47 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Making Attacks: The book doesn't state how to make attacks with squads. As far as I can tell, there are two options, 1. Split the Squad into minion groups, 2. Make an attack with the Squad as a whole ([only if attacking another Squad of minions?] add damage equal to attacking minions in acting Squad). 

There is exactly one way to have your squad attack: spend 1 triumph. The squad leader can attack, but that's with their own skill, characteristic and gear. Once the minions "squad-up" they can no longer " perform independent actions or perform maneuvers or incidentals. " (RotS136). If you want your minions to get their own turn in the initiative order you don't have them squad-up.

49 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Benefits of formations apply to all PCs and NPCs in Squad

The benefits of being in a squad are three-fold:

• The squad leader can redirect any successful attack against them to the squad
• The squad formation bonus
• Less dice rolling since the NPCs are "part of" the PCs turn

52 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

NPC Squad members have one additional upgrade for primary group attack, and have Rival-level Wound Thresholds (and Critical behaviors?). For attacks they behave like Minions, you can either split them into Minion Groups, or use them to attack as a Squad (see Making Attacks paragraph). You can also give them 1 rank in another skill per Minval (Minion-Rival ) (i.e. the NPC Clone Trooper radio operator has Mechanics 1, Computers 1, Ranged (Heavy) 1+Group, Athletics (group), Brawl (group), Discipline (group), Vigilance (group))

These are a lot of fiddly bits that seem to only add minimal benefits. Why are you changing their WT? And you can't just "split them into minion groups" without disbanding the squad (which happens when the squad leader wants—and the entire squad disbands—or a few at a time, depending on the negative symbols rolled against the squad). And adding more skills and skill ranks to minions? Why?

54 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

• Minvals increase in ability over time. They are not supposed to be on the level of the PCs, but this keeps them relevant. 
• The objective of this is to allow character development of companion NPCs and foster PC attachment to said NPCs while not cluttering up initiative slots, and keeping them inferior to the PCs, allowing the PCs to stand out from the rank in file. 

This is not really anything that has to do with the squad rules, though. NPCs should grow and change as the game progresses. But that's usually up to the GM as to when they think an NPC should improve. Granted, if one or more PCs latch onto the NPC that's a good sign to the GM to advance that specific NPC. But overall, NPC growth is up to the GM to do.

11 minutes ago, c__beck said:

You cannot have more than 1 PC in a squad. Per RotS136, a character " can lead up to 10 allied minions…. " If more than 1 PC wants to be in a squad, each one must form their own.

Squad wasn't capitalized in this case because I was referring to the military unit, not the game mechanic.

12 minutes ago, c__beck said:

There is exactly one way to have your squad attack: spend 1 triumph. The squad leader can attack, but that's with their own skill, characteristic and gear. Once the minions "squad-up" they can no longer " perform independent actions or perform maneuvers or incidentals. " (RotS136). If you want your minions to get their own turn in the initiative order you don't have them squad-up.

Okay, I missed/forgot that was in the "spend X resource" options. However, if they can't attack outside of that, then I really have a problem with that. A squad of clone troopers should be devastating, not only getting to attack when the sergeant rolls a triumph. The intention was not for them to get their own slot in the initiative order, they would simply get to attack on their leaders turn, and follow him around using maneuvers (or stay put if that was the order). Other than that, occasionally Minvals would split off from the group temporarily, i.e. "Sparks! Fix the radio we need to call in a bombing run!"

16 minutes ago, c__beck said:

The benefits of being in a squad are three-fold:

• The squad leader can redirect any successful attack against them to the squad
• The squad formation bonus
• Less dice rolling since the NPCs are "part of" the PCs turn

Yeah, the only thing I add, as far as dice rolling goes, is allowing the Squad to attack.

23 minutes ago, c__beck said:

Why are you changing their WT?

I stated in the post that I was changing their wound threshold so that they didn't die as easily and therefore could stick around as characters.

23 minutes ago, c__beck said:

And you can't just "split them into minion groups" without disbanding the squad (which happens when the squad leader wants—and the entire squad disbands—or a few at a time, depending on the negative symbols rolled against the squad).

The only "splitting into Minion groups" was related to making attacks. I'm currently leaning towards them just making an attack as a Squad, with the option to spend 2 Advantage to add damage equal to the number of Minvals in the Squad. (which would amend the RAW, not just apply to this situation)

26 minutes ago, c__beck said:

And adding more skills and skill ranks to minions? Why?

This is not really anything that has to do with the squad rules, though. NPCs should grow and change as the game progresses. But that's usually up to the GM as to when they think an NPC should improve. Granted, if one or more PCs latch onto the NPC that's a good sign to the GM to advance that specific NPC. But overall, NPC growth is up to the GM to do.

Like I said, to make them more useful as NPCs (adding the 1+group allows them to be more useful individually and in small groups as necessary) and foster a greater connection to the PCs.

28 minutes ago, c__beck said:

This is not really anything that has to do with the squad rules, though. NPCs should grow and change as the game progresses. But that's usually up to the GM as to when they think an NPC should improve. Granted, if one or more PCs latch onto the NPC that's a good sign to the GM to advance that specific NPC. But overall, NPC growth is up to the GM to do.

NPCs can't grow and change if they're dead. And yeah, I did leave it up to the GM.

I do agree with you somewhat that this doesn't have a lot to do with the Squad rules, but the idea behind this was to take the concept and adapt it to something that is more useful for the story (i.e. if you are playing as a clone sergeant who has command of an NPC Squad). This is not intended to be substituted for the RAW, as those work pretty well for enemy Squads and for spur-of-the-moment Squads where you are rallying disparate groupings of clones in order to accomplish something.

One point is that if they are just Minions who die quickly and easily, resulting in high turnover, the PCs are likely to treat them as, well, minions, and throw them into battle with little to no concern for their well being, if the Minvals die less, and have individual abilities that make them stand out somewhat, the PCs are more likely to treat them as allies than as just cannon fodder.

2 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Okay  , I missed/forgot that was in the "spend X resource" options. However, if they  can't attack outside of that, then I re    ally have a problem with  that.

Only cause you're not up to speed on the mechanics and intent.

The idea isn't that you should always Squad up with everyone possible. It's an option that will work in some situations, and not in others.

If you've got a character that's in command of allied troops, and doesn't have the applicable skills to generate regular triumphs then they probably don't want or need to squad up to the max. Nothing says you can't squad up with a few troopers for the primary benefits and leave the rest as a separate Minion Group that you command through normal means to generate more firepower.

Honestly dude, the whole point of a lot of mechanics of this system are to keep the game moving at a good pace, and not getting bogged down with book keeping, math, and roll upon roll.

So far you've spent a lot of time fretting over extreme examples, and trying to add complexity where it's not really needed, essentially undoing all the hard work the devs have done for you.

Besides, the more house rules you add, the harder it's going to be for a player to actually get on board with your group.

Try running the game RAW for a while before monkeying with it.

21 minutes ago, Ghostofman said:

Only cause you're not up to speed on the mechanics and intent.

The idea isn't that you should always Squad up with everyone possible. It's an option that will work in some situations, and not in others.

If you've got a character that's in command of allied troops, and doesn't have the applicable skills to generate regular triumphs then they probably don't want or need to squad up to the max. Nothing says you can't squad up with a few troopers for the primary benefits and leave the rest as a separate Minion Group that you command through normal means to generate more firepower.

Honestly dude, the whole point of a lot of mechanics of this system are to keep the game moving at a good pace, and not getting bogged down with book keeping, math, and roll upon roll.

So far you've spent a lot of time fretting over extreme examples, and trying to add complexity where it's not really needed, essentially undoing all the hard work the devs have done for you.

Besides, the more house rules you add, the harder it's going to be for a player to actually get on board with your group.

Try running the game RAW for a while before monkeying with it.

I get your point, maybe instead of running the squad as a Squad, it should just be run as a couple Minval groups and just allow the bonuses from formations to carry over.

The main point of this was "how best to run a campaign where the PC leads a squad" not "the Squad rules must be changed/fixed." As I said, I think that the Squad rules are (with the exception of attacking) fine in almost all situations, it's just a matter of when they take center stage and are expected to stay there a while.

I was expecting their attacks to be treated like those of the Droid Phalanx where they attack basically like a Minion Group (and I still think that they should be). I was anticipating using Squads of battle droids as basically just larger Minion Groups with special abilities (Formations).

Aside from that, many of my suggestions had to do with making NPCs for the PC's squad.

Also, I don't "Fret" over extreme examples, I just use them to illustrate points or demonstrate problems (reductio ad absurdum).

49 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I get your point, maybe instead of running the squad as a Squad, it should just be run as a couple Minval groups and just allow the bonuses from formations to carry over.

The main point of this was "how best to run a campaign where the PC leads a squad" not "the Squad rules must be changed/fixed." As I said, I think that the Squad rules are (with the exception of attacking) fine in almost all situations, it's just a matter of when they take center stage and are expected to stay there a while.

I was expecting their attacks to be treated like those of the Droid Phalanx where they attack basically like a Minion Group (and I still think that they should be). I was anticipating using Squads of battle droids as basically just larger Minion Groups with special abilities (Formations).

Aside from that, many of my suggestions had to do with making NPCs for the PC's squad.

Also, I don't "Fret" over extreme examples, I just use them to illustrate points or demonstrate problems (reductio ad absurdum).

There is a formation that adds a boost to the players attack roll. But really the point of fomations is to add plot armor to PCs for mass combat. Especially for Starfighter combat. Not for attack purposes. Also yiu can break the squad any time. So for example you use the squad as armor to get into position break the squad and the squad does the minion thing then you reform and move on. If you want to discuss the rules @KRKappel he created them and knows them best.

20 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

There is a formation that adds a boost to the players attack roll. But really the point of fomations is to add plot armor to PCs for mass combat. Especially for Starfighter combat. Not for attack purposes. Also yiu can break the squad any time. So for example you use the squad as armor to get into position break the squad and the squad does the minion thing then you reform and move on. If you want to discuss the rules @KRKappel he created them and knows them best.

Okay, do you think I should DM him or what? I am not sure what the point of the Squads are if they are really only plot armor. I think I'll probably just adopt the formations rules for what I have in mind and leave the rest because this doesn't seem to be what I thought it was supposed be.

One interesting experiment (I said experiment, not house rule, don't yell at me) would be to treat the (lowercase "s") squad as a ship with weapons being the individual squad members, damage control being a medic treating the wounded, etc. (though most actions or maneuvers would not apply) that would also be conducive to making something like Concentrated Barrage for squads. I'm picturing it where the officer basically directs what the members of the squad do sort of like running a ship on one initiative slot (being rolled by the captain).

36 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I am     not sure what the point of the Squads are if they are really only plot armor. 

This gets into that encounter and Adventure design I mentioned in your other thread.

So each game system does different things, puts emphasis on different effects and functions, and has a different intent on how it should be played. Yes you can play any RPG any what you like to an extent, but there's certain parts that get more attention from the developer than others.

A good, somewhat exteme, example is the 4th edition of D&D, which at it's core was really a tactical skirmish game before everything else.

With Star Wars is more of a movie simulator. It's less concerned with fine details and accurate simulation, and more concerned with providing the tools to navigate a narrative like the films, with emphasis on the original trilogy.

So when you look at the rules like squads, it's less about really setting up a proper combat unit and more about putting the player in a position to do more. It's there to do things like allow the Battle of Yavin, where Biggs, Porkins, and Wedge don't really do a heck of a lot other then set Luke up to be the big gorram hero.

The squad and squadron rules are meant to add survivability to key NPCs and PCs in certain combat encounters. That's what they were written to do. To balance that against NOT running a mechanical squad, we took away some offense. The rules are not meant to power creep and only upgrade. They are meant to provide a tactical option.

Who is in your "squad" narratively, and who is in it mechanically are wholly separate things. If you have 10 minions to play with, you might grant your best fighter (most likely to generate triumphs) a couple of minions to get that free attack to mitigate the lack of offense. You might give a few to your tank to provide some additional damage absorption. You might just put them with your face character, who can use social talents and checks to buff other PCs (and still spend a triumph result on thsoe checks to trigger a squad attack). There are a lot of clever ways to use the rules.

What you should try and avoid, is making squad rules a "must use for every situation, clearly better than leaving minion groups on their own" option. Because then its not a tactical option, its the only way to go.

This system has 2 ways of dealing with a large number of NPCs in a combat encounter.

1.) Minion groups The squad and squadron rules modify these rules. So do the Phalanx rules, both of which I wrote.

2.) Mass combat rules.

Obviously, it is your table, so you can do whatever you like. But the rules were absolutely meant to replicate situations like the Trench Run, where NPCs protect Luke while he goes on an attack run. Happy gaming!

3 minutes ago, Ghostofman said:

This gets into that encounter and Adventure design I mentioned in your other thread.

So each game system does different things, puts emphasis on different effects and functions, and has a different intent on how it should be played. Yes you can play any RPG any what you like to an extent, but there's certain parts that get more attention from the developer than others.

A good, somewhat exteme, example is the 4th edition of D&D, which at it's core was really a tactical skirmish game before everything else.

With Star Wars is more of a movie simulator. It's less concerned with fine details and accurate simulation, and more concerned with providing the tools to navigate a narrative like the films, with emphasis on the original trilogy.

So when you look at the rules like squads, it's less about really setting up a proper combat unit and more about putting the player in a position to do more. It's there to do things like allow the Battle of Yavin, where Biggs, Porkins, and Wedge don't really do a heck of a lot other then set Luke up to be the big gorram hero.

Okay, I take your point. That isn't how I and my friends really get our fun though (we do enjoy that aspect, it just isn't our primary), we all like games like Risk or Axis & Allies, which I imagine would influence our style for this, we like the combat and the strategy and the teamwork, less the strictly narrative aids. I would say that the Squad(ron) rules work better in starfighter combat (but not with bombers).

2 minutes ago, KRKappel said:

The squad and squadron rules are meant to add survivability to key NPCs and PCs in certain combat encounters. That's what they were written to do. To balance that against NOT running a mechanical squad, we took away some offense. The rules are not meant to power creep and only upgrade. They are meant to provide a tactical option.

Who is in your "squad" narratively, and who is in it mechanically are wholly separate things. If you have 10 minions to play with, you might grant your best fighter (most likely to generate triumphs) a couple of minions to get that free attack to mitigate the lack of offense. You might give a few to your tank to provide some additional damage absorption. You might just put them with your face character, who can use social talents and checks to buff other PCs (and still spend a triumph result on thsoe checks to trigger a squad attack). There are a lot of clever ways to use the rules.

What you should try and avoid, is making squad rules a "must use for every situation, clearly better than leaving minion groups on their own" option. Because then its not a tactical option, its the only way to go.

This system has 2 ways of dealing with a large number of NPCs in a combat encounter.

1.) Minion groups The squad and squadron rules modify these rules. So do the Phalanx rules, both of which I wrote.

2.) Mass combat rules.

Obviously, it is your table, so you can do whatever you like. But the rules were absolutely meant to replicate situations like the Trench Run, where NPCs protect Luke while he goes on an attack run. Happy gaming!

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. It wasn't what I had pictured when I heard "Squad/Squadron Rules" but looking at it from that prospective I understand now. Thank you!

I REALLY like the Phalanx rules by the way. I was sort of expecting the Squad rules to be extensions of that. I guess I'll probably just use Minion groups with Formations (for this particular campaign's main group of PCs/NPCs).

3 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Okay, do you think I should DM him or what? I am not sure what the point of the Squads are if they are really only plot armor. I think I'll probably just adopt the formations rules for what I have in mind and leave the rest because this doesn't seem to be what I thought it was supposed be.

One interesting experiment (I said experiment, not house rule, don't yell at me) would be to treat the (lowercase "s") squad as a ship with weapons being the individual squad members, damage control being a medic treating the wounded, etc. (though most actions or maneuvers would not apply) that would also be conducive to making something like Concentrated Barrage for squads. I'm picturing it where the officer basically directs what the members of the squad do sort of like running a ship on one initiative slot (being rolled by the captain).

Nope. I just summoned him for you . He is good about popping in when I ping him in threads he will have good info on. He likes helping people.

14 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Nope. I just summoned him for you . He is good about popping in when I ping him in threads he will have good info on. He likes helping people.

Thanks!

In principal I agree with you. I have never seen a player who has looked at or heard the squad rules without looking at me with disgust. My players want to be heroes. They want to look after people they work with.

However I think a simpler solution is in order. The formations in the book are already pretty good, and the Mission Specialist one covers your Minval idea adequately in my opinion.

I wanted to make the Squad worthwhile to players so I allowed my players to upgrade attacks they make whilst leading a squad once (with an NPC talent that works like offensive Adversary allowing more upgrades) and give their attack "Linked" so they can achieve multiple hits if they roll well, representing the squad laying down heavy fire.

2 hours ago, Spartancfos said:

However I think a simpler solution is in order. The formations in the book are already pretty good, and the Mission Specialist one covers your Minval idea adequately in my opinion.

What is the Mission Specialist formation? It wasn't in RotS.

2 hours ago, Spartancfos said:

I wanted to make the Squad worthwhile to players so I allowed my players to upgrade attacks they make whilst leading a squad once (with an NPC talent that works like offensive Adversary allowing more upgrades) and give their attack "Linked" so they can achieve multiple hits if they roll well, representing the squad laying down heavy fire.

I like that idea, I think I'll still use Minval Groups with formations for this particular campaign, but those rules work pretty well, so I'll probably use them with regular Minions when a squad is given temporarily or when one is formed on the spot. I guess you could also reduce the cost of Linked by one sometimes to represent higher skill level or high quantity of fire. I would probably treat triggering it more like Auto-Fire (not increasing the difficulty though), where you spend the advantage to get the extra hit, but you don't have to apply it to the same target (though if it's a minion group or droid phalanx you may as well hit the same target).

2 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

5 hours ago, Spartancfos said:

What is the Mission Specialist formation? It wasn't in RotS.

Well I'll be, I didn't notice that.

Soooo..... interesting things. The Squad rules were first introduced in the AoR GM kit, but the rules in RotS are slightly different, with things like range effects and wound allocation being quite different between the two. And it looks like Mission Specialist was removed.

Anyway, Mission Specialist allows (and I'm going from memory here so I might be slightly off) The squad leader to have the squad perform certain skill checks (there's a list, mostly technical like computers, mechanics, medicine)using the leaders Leadership Ranks instead of the squads skill rank. And It can be done a limited number of times... like the number of ranks in leadership I think.

So for example, you're in command of a squad of Clonetroopers and hit a locked door. You don't have Skulduggery, and the Clones technically don't either, but you do have 3 ranks in Leadership. You can use the Mission Specialist formation, and now a Clone can Skullduggery the lock as if he had 3 Ranks in the skill. So clone CT-0426 "Hudson" runs a bypass and pops the lock.

Put simply, it's a cinematic method for a squad of normal combat troopers to also have a tech, medic, while still only using Minions and the squad rules.

Honestly I'm rather underwhelmed by the changes RotS made to Squads as I kinda think whoever rewrote it missed some of the subtleties that really made the Squad valuable in certain situations...

1 minute ago, Ghostofman said:

Well I'll be, I didn't notice that.

Soooo..... interesting things. The Squad rules were first introduced in the AoR GM kit, but the rules in RotS are slightly different, with things like range effects and wound allocation being quite different between the two. And it looks like Mission Specialist was removed.

Anyway, Mission Specialist allows (and I'm going from memory here so I might be slightly off) The squad leader to have the squad perform certain skill checks (there's a list, mostly technical like computers, mechanics, medicine)using the leaders Leadership Ranks instead of the squads skill rank. And It can be done a limited number of times... like the number of ranks in leadership I think.

So for example, you're in command of a squad of Clonetroopers and hit a locked door. You don't have Skulduggery, and the Clones technically don't either, but you do have 3 ranks in Leadership. You can use the Mission Specialist formation, and now a Clone can Skullduggery the lock as if he had 3 Ranks in the skill. So clone CT-0426 "Hudson" runs a bypass and pops the lock.

Put simply, it's a cinematic method for a squad of normal combat troopers to also have a tech, medic, while still only using Minions and the squad rules.

Honestly I'm rather underwhelmed by the changes RotS made to Squads as I kinda think whoever rewrote it missed some of the subtleties that really made the Squad valuable in certain situations...

Thanks! I actually have the GM kit, but I got it and RotS at the same time, and since I assumed that the squad rules were the same I didn't bother to read the rules in the GM kit. I'll check them out.

I really like that actually, because it means that they advance over time as the PC improves. I'll check it out and get back to you.

6 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Thanks! I actually have the GM kit, but I got it and RotS at the same time, and since I assumed that the squad rules were the same I didn't bother to read the rules in the GM kit. I'll check them out.

I really like that actually, because it means that they advance over time as the PC improves. I'll check it out and get back to you.

Yeah they are a smidge different.

Offhand in the Kit rules:

- When you Squad up, the entire Squad and you are considered Engaged. So no monkeying around with you vs. the squad at what range, though Blast weapons are now especially devastating because...

- Attacks allocated to the squad are resolved by-hit, not by-damage. So your minions are less durable, as an attack allocated to one removes it regardless of damage done, but by the same note, a single hit from a damage 50 vehicle weapon only removes one Minion from the squad. It's also easier to track as you don't have to futz around with the squad's wound pool, you just cross one off and keep going.

19 minutes ago, Ghostofman said:

Yeah they are a smidge different.

Offhand in the Kit rules:

- When you Squad up, the entire Squad and you are considered Engaged. So no monkeying around with you vs. the squad at what range, though Blast weapons are now especially devastating because...

- Attacks allocated to the squad are resolved by-hit, not by-damage. So your minions are less durable, as an attack allocated to one removes it regardless of damage done, but by the same note, a single hit from a damage 50 vehicle weapon only removes one Minion from the squad. It's also easier to track as you don't have to futz around with the squad's wound pool, you just cross one off and keep going.

Hmm... interesting. I'm not sure how I feel about the by-hit resolution. Acceptable for unimportant squads though.

2 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Hmm... interesting. I'm not sure how I feel about the by-hit resolution. Acceptable for unimportant squads though.

I like it because:

A)It minimizes math. One hit, one elimination, done. No calculating how many wound roll over or what have you. So you can do things like drop several large squads down to add a lot of scale without a lot of paperwork. And everything hinging off the squad leader allows you to manage the offensive nature of the group so you don't murder the players accidently. After all Minions aren't usually good for more than one solid hit anyway...

B) It makes the player think bout taking hits. A light hit that only does a couple of wounds the players will probably roll over to their minion using normal minion wound calculation. However if that hit would remove a minion, but only do a couple wounds to a player... they might take the hit. Here's a good example of that Jedi leading the clones where he's up front taking some Strain and a wound or two from a reflected shot to keep the squad pushing forward.

C) It allows the players to take on a much larger threat. Something like an AT-ST can chew through a normal Minion Group in literally one shot from it's main cannon. But dismounted infantry need 3-5 hits from something like a missile tube to disable the AT-ST. Add a squad using By-hit rules and the AT-ST can now only remove a minion or two per main gun shot, allowing them to survive long enough to disable the AT-ST.

Okay, that's a good case for it. I agree mostly, I just wouldn't use it for important squads (i.e. a squad made up of characters as opposed to randos picked up on the battlefield).

3 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Okay, that's a good case for it. I agree mostly, I just wouldn't use it for important squads (i.e. a squad made up of characters as opposed to randos picked up on the battlefield).

You dont make squads of characters. You attach minions to a single player.

1 minute ago, Daeglan said:

You dont make squads of characters. You attach minions to a single player.

I depends on the purpose. I'm running a campaign now where the PCs have command of a squad of clone troopers, and I don't want the Clone Troopers dying constantly because I want them to be characters. Hence squad of characters. That said the (lowercase) squad will not really be in an (uppercase) Squad, I'll just use Minval groups and formations.

1 minute ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I depends on the purpose. I'm running a campaign now where the PCs have command of a squad of clone troopers, and I don't want the Clone Troopers dying constantly because I want them to be characters. Hence squad of characters. That said the (lowercase) squad will not really be in an (uppercase) Squad, I'll just use Minval groups and formations.

No. No no no...you are missing the point. You add a squad to the clone ypu want to live. Now you can have faceless clones die while the PC ones dont.