I have been thinking about the ace problem we kind of have here, I think I have come up with a possible solution. Give every generic squadron an upgrade bar, and enough upgrade options and slots to make any generic as good or better than any ace you could get. The balance to keep the aces relevant would be effectively pre-built bundles with defense tokens.

To give an example for 7 more points per squad you could give every generic X-Wing a black die instead of red for their bomber roll. This would make each of them cost as much as Luke, however Luke would still get double brace and the ability to ignore shields.

In an effort to keep everything more or less streamlined each squadron would effectively become limited, meaning one generic card on the table. Thus, you could bring generic X-Wings, Biggs, Wedge, and Luke should you desire. But you couldn’t bring X-Wings upgraded in way 1, X-Wings upgraded in way 2 in the same list.

For the specific upgrades, their costs and upgrade bars I haven’t decided on a solid set but here is the set I have been thinking over, with their associated types, and the costs I’ve been using. Note everything is open to negotiation.

Offensive:

• Concussion Rockets: Add one red to the anti-squadron armament. 3 points
• Bomb Bay: Gain the bomber keyword. Remove one from your counter total. If you do not have counter gain heavy instead. 2 points

Defensive:

• Improved Spaceframe: Place a number of tokens on this card equal to the number of ships upgraded by it. When attacked during the spend defense tokens step a squadron may remove a token from this card to reduce the damage by one. 4 points

Technology:

• Astromech Repairs: Place a number of tokens on this card equal to the number of ships upgraded by it. If a squadron activates and is unengaged it may remove a token from this card to recover one hit point. 5 points
• Advanced Targeting Scopes: Increase your anti-squadron armament by one blue die. Place a number of tokens on this card equal to the number of ships upgraded by it. A squadron my spend a token to make a snipe attack with their printed anti squadron armament. 6 points

Ordinance:

• Heavy Proton Torpedoes: Change one die in your anti-ship armament to black from any color. 7 points
• Concussion Missiles: Change one die in your anti squadron armament to black from any color. 5 points

Squadron Tactics:

• Defensive Formation: Increase your counter value by one. If you do not have counter gain the counter keyword instead. 3 points

For the upgrade bars I have only been thinking about the TIE\ln and X-Wing in any detail but here would be their upgrade slots:

• X-Wing: Defensive, Technology, Ordinance, Squadron Tactics
• TIE\ln: Offensive, Ordinance, Squadron Tactics

Lastly, I will be the first to admit I don’t have a way to keep upgraded squadrons straight in a multiplayer sector fleet game. But I also see that as more of a secondary objective to getting this system balanced, should anyone else want to see it done.

Have those as a card uprade for ships. Mayne O Retrofit, or Engineering Slot..."...generic squadrons you activate gain x"...followed by your description.

I can even see a turbolaser/ion upgrade...

Covering Fire "...[Squad Command] before you resolve your squadron command, you may choose one enemy squadron at close-medium range and roll one blue die. You may add this die result to one of your squadrons attacks this activation." 2 pts

Anti-Fighter Ions "..squadrons you activate at close-medium range are treated as Obstructed while defending a counter attack." 2pts

When I though about it, I went a different route (as you know).

Add a upgradebar to the ships and remove "Bomber" as keyword from the ships.

And removing Unique squadrons as a whole would also be a way. Introduce Piolt upgrade cards for the squadrons instead. Perhaps reduce costs for the pilots when equipping them to their favorite craft (Luke - X-Wing) or restrict them from other (no Vader in a TIE/ln).

@eliteone

While I believe that's where FFG is going to go. I have a few issues with it.

First and formost broadcasting intent and positioning. Say any of these cards get adjusted into a trigger event on squadron command, well if I am your opponent I know any ship with that upgrade is going to be a carrier or a deathtrap to attack. Also to get any use out of the upgrade your fighters need to be with in medium range, or activation range, I can just bypass that bubble until I need to go into it.

My second issue is the health medium squadron groups. If we add more squadron support upgrades to ships even if they are wonderfully affordable, it makes it more cost effective to fill out your squadron points as much as possible. Couple that with the fact that aces always outclass their genaric counterparts on the survivability metric and there really isn't much incentive to take genarics with ship based buffs.

Lastly it seems wrong to have a large number of squadron support upgrades for the fleet. It seems more Star Wars to have ships directing and commanding the squadrons during the battle rather than out right buffing them. Take the battle of Endor, ships shot ships while directing and taking opportunity shots at the fighters.

Just gonna...

@DScipio I don't see the need to strip bomber from everything. Assuming we accept the base squadron cost as balanced for what it can do, it makes sense to add points to make them more powerful.

As for aces as upgrades it seems kinda gimmicky as then wouldn't the ace apply to any squadron of that type even if they were once per turn? Plus the ace would just be the special ability, and how would we change Biggs, Shara, or Jan to list some rebels. Howlrunner and Valen both come to mind on the imperial side. Plus if bommer is a X per game on some squadrons now wouldn't that make aces like Luke who use bomber for their ability more limited?

Also what were your thoughts on the unique squadrons such as Sabure and Rouge?

Advanced Targetin Scopes on 5 X-Wings.... You may take down their squadron wing without losing a HP...

What if we assign a point value to each defense token and add a rule that "Squadrons with no defense tokens may add up to 2 tokens, Squadrons may only have 1 scatter." All you need is a rules reference card in the next Fighter pack with the point values of each token.

Advanced Targeting Scopes might be underpriced. At the same time that makes each X-wing 19 points and between the 5 of them they can only snipe 5 times. Also I intended to have it worded in such a way that Howlrunner and Flight Controlers couldn't increase the number of dice.

That defese token idea could be interesting, but would they be shared or one token per stand of genaric?

If Yavaris and Jendon are so op, why bring another with same effect?

11 hours ago, Norell said:

Advanced Targetin Scopes on 5 X-Wings.... You may take down their squadron wing without losing a HP...

Why not TIE interceptors, pretty sure you can get them to snipe 7. Small SSD can activate 7 at once. Although X-wings or Defenders may be better since they are better vs ships.

12 hours ago, Grathew said:

Advanced Targeting Scopes might be underpriced. At the same time that makes each X-wing 19 points and between the 5 of them they can only snipe 5 times. Also I intended to have it worded in such a way that Howlrunner and Flight Controlers couldn't increase the number of dice.

That defese token idea could be interesting, but would they be shared or one token per stand of genaric?

Ahhh yes there is the gap in the idea; the whole one card multiple squads thing. The base of the squadrons has a spot that can hold a token. What if we stuck a one time use token in there. Discard it to get the tokens effect, that way you don't have to replace it each turn otherwise that akes squadrons even more finicky.

More simply. Add more ship upgrades that only work with generic squadrons. Example:

Offensive Retrofit: Ion Munitions Depot, X points.
After deployment select a number of non-unique squadrons with the keyword BOMBER up to your squadron value. Place a Ion Munition token on each of these squadrons.
When attacking ships, those squadrons have [Crit] Spend one of the defenders defense tokens.

13 minutes ago, CMDR Kastor said:

More simply. Add more ship upgrades that only work with generic squadrons. Example:

Offensive Retrofit: Ion Munitions Depot, X points.
After deployment select a number of non-unique squadrons with the keyword BOMBER up to your squadron value. Place a Ion Munition token on each of these squadrons.
When attacking ships, those squadrons have [Crit] Spend one of the defenders defense tokens.

I think Tokens on Squadron bases is something FFG has deliberately avoided, since it obscures necessary game state information, and the assumption is your token holder on the base has a side identifier in it.

If That is the case, then it stands to reason we’d not see anything that differentiates one generic squad from another. At least on a turn by turn basis - I think Hera is about as complicated as they’ll make it- designating something without marking it.

1 hour ago, Drasnighta said:

I think Tokens on Squadron bases is something FFG has deliberately avoided, since it obscures necessary game state information, and the assumption is your token holder on the base has a side identifier in it.

If That is the case, then it stands to reason we’d not see anything that differentiates one generic squad from another. At least on a turn by turn basis - I think Hera is about as complicated as they’ll make it- designating something without marking it.

So... something more like:

Offensive Retrofit: Ion Munitions Depot, X points.
Every squadron you activate with the BOMBER keyword gains:
When attacking ships, [Crit] Spend one of the defenders defense tokens. Until the end of the activation.

2 hours ago, CMDR Kastor said:

So... something more like:

Offensive Retrofit: Ion Munitions Depot, X points.
Every squadron you activate with the BOMBER keyword gains:
When attacking ships, [Crit] Spend one of the defenders defense tokens. Until the end of the activation.

That 100% fits with current convention for upgrades. If I were a designer I’d be much more interested in an upgrade like that.