If a ship that has Optimised Prototype active attacks Quickdraw and spends a result to strip a shield off Quickdraw, when does Quickdraw's attack happen:
As soon as the shield is lost because of Krennic (i.e. resolve Quickdraw before continuing with the regular attack that triggered Krennic)
OR
Finish resolving the attack that caused the shield loss, then Quickdraw gets the bonus attack?

My reading of it is that Quickdraw would trigger before the rest of the attack continues... which is interesting in terms of token spending.

It is after the attack is resolved...

its in the RR under bonus attack:

"If a card instructs a ship to perform a bonus attack, it performs an additional attack during the Aftermath step."

2 minutes ago, shaunmerritt said:

It is after the attack is resolved...

its in the RR under bonus attack:

"If a card instructs a ship to perform a bonus attack, it performs an additional attack during the Aftermath step."

Um:

" Aftermath: Abilities that trigger after an attack are resolved in the following order.

1. Resolve any of the defending player's abilities that trigger "after you defend," excluding abilities that grant a bonus attack.
2. Resolve any of the attacking player's abilities that trigger "after you perform an attack," excluding abilities that grant a bonus attack.
3. Resolve any of the defending player's abilities that trigger "after you defend" that grant a bonus attack.
4. Resolve any of the attacking player's abilities that trigger "after you perform an attack" that grant a bonus attack"

I wrote my question in haste, without showing how I got there (was about to go to work, when I had the thought).

My working:
OPTIMISED PROTOTYPE
".... If you do, choose one: the defender loses 1 shield or the defender flips 1 of its facedown damage cards."

QUICKDRAW
"After you lose a shield, you may spend 1 Charge . If you do, you may perform a bonus primary attack."

BONUS ATTACK
"If a card instructs a ship to perform a bonus attack, it performs an additional attack during the Aftermath step."

AFTERMATH
"Abilities that trigger after an attack are resolved in the following order.
a. Resolve any of the defending player’s abilities that trigger “after you defend,” excluding abilities that grant a bonus attack.
b. Resolve any of the attacking player’s abilities that trigger “after you perform an attack,” excluding abilities that grant a bonus attack.
c. Resolve any of the defending player’s abilities that trigger “after you defend” that grant a bonus attack.
d. Resolve any of the attacking player’s abilities that trigger “after you perform an attack” that grant a bonus attack."

Now, I can definitely see why Quickdraw would perform the bonus attack after the Optimised attack, as it is a card specifying that it performs a bonus attack....
But Quickdraw does not trigger after attack/after defense, but solely during the loss of a shield.
Optimised happens during an attack, yes, but Quickdraw specifically does not reference after/during attacks.

Furthermore...
The Bonus Attack section specifically states that you perform Bonus Attacks during the Aftermath step.... meaning that there is no such step when Quickdraw loses a shield in general play (such as bombs and obstacles).
It is generally accepted that Quickdraw's Bonus Attack will still work in these situations, despite the Bonus Attack section specifically giving a step with which to perform it and Quickdraw not being at a state with which to trigger that.

Optimised Prototype seems to be another out-of-step Bonus Attack situation, in my mind.
If you can trigger a Bonus Attack by losing shield by running over a rock/bomb/whatever outside of the attack, then I don't fully see why Optimised Shield Loss does not trigger Quickdraw immediately rather than at the end of an attack.

(For full disclosure, I am not a Quickdraw player.... I am currently testing Krennic. Hasn't cropped up, but I am sure it will.)

The rules ref being quoted for bonus attack is saying (poorly) 'if a bonus attack is triggered during an attack, it resolves during the relevant step of the Aftermath sequence'.

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

The rules ref being quoted for bonus attack is saying (poorly) 'if a bonus attack is triggered during an attack, it resolves during the relevant step of the Aftermath sequence'.

The tricky part of Quickdraw is that she can trigger outside of an attack/defense.

The way I have always seen it played locally and via FFG event streams is that if she loses a shield during an attack, the attack resolves before her ability triggers as her ability enters the ability queue. This is why I quoted the rule above.

Having said that... I will fully admit that his was a carry over from 1.0 and the rules are not 100% clear with her in 2.0 in regards to effects like Optimized Prototype and the newly released Plasma Torpedoes because when I went over the RR again, there is a part that reads... • After : The effect resolves immediately following the timing specified.

I would be curious to see how others have played her and as we locally might have been doing it wrong.

1 minute ago, shaunmerritt said:

The tricky part of Quickdraw is that she can trigger outside of an attack/defense.

The way I have always seen it played locally and via FFG event streams is that if she loses a shield during an attack, the attack resolves before her ability triggers as her ability enters the ability queue. This is why I quoted the rule above.

Having said that... I will fully admit that his was a carry over from 1.0 and the rules are not 100% clear with her in 2.0 in regards to effects like Optimized Prototype and the newly released Plasma Torpedoes because when I went over the RR again, there is a part that reads... • After : The effect resolves immediately following the timing specified.

I would be curious to see how others have played her and as we locally might have been doing it wrong.

That means that when she loses shields outside attacks, it resolves at the After timing for whatever caused the shield loss. Abilities that provide bonus attacks during the attack sequence resolve in the Aftermath steps.

I recognise that the wording is bad. But that is what it means. I am 100% certain of that. It's how it worked in 1e, it's the least confusing way for it to happen, it avoids the absolute timing NIGHTMARES that arise from nested attacks (c.f. QD getting shot by Dengar with Plasmas who then loses a shield, shoots Dengar who then shoots back, all before the orignal Plasma Torp damage is resolved), and I absolutely guarantee that is what that phrase in the rules ref means.

2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

The rules ref being quoted for bonus attack is saying (poorly) 'if a bonus attack is triggered during an attack, it resolves during the relevant step of the Aftermath sequence'.

Quickdraw doesn't say "after you defend" which is the qualifying requirement listed in the Aftermath step .

Just now, Hiemfire said:

Quickdraw doesn't say "after you defend" which is the qualifying requirement listed in the Aftermath step .

Which is, again, bad drafting of the rules. The principle is clear.

i 100% agree with @thespaceinvader . it is very clear that all bonus attacks triggered by other attacks are resolved during the aftermath of that attack, even if they say "After" and that timing has a different definition in general, the rules about resolving an attack needs to be followed strictly.

11 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

I recognise that the wording is bad. But that is what it means. I am 100% certain of that. It's how it worked in 1e, it's the least confusing way for it to happen, it avoids the absolute timing NIGHTMARES that arise from nested attacks (c.f. QD getting shot by Dengar with Plasmas who then loses a shield, shoots Dengar who then shoots back, all before the orignal Plasma Torp damage is resolved), and I absolutely guarantee that is what that phrase in the rules ref means.

That is first edition.
*insert "kill it if you have to" meme*
It has no bearing on current edition.

I am not disagreeing with the intent , I absolutely agree with you that is what it should mean in order to keep things in order. I do not think that most reasonable people would disagree with you either.
However, if someone argues otherwise, I actually don't think the Krennic player has a leg to stand on.

Let's try for something similar:
Optimise a Shield off Tavson.
When does Tavson trigger? At the time of shield loss or at the full completion of attack?
The timing window is identical. There is nothing in either that states that it must be done as part of the attack order, but solely when you take damage.

EDIT
I suspect that it should be made specific in the FAQ in a similar fashion to the Replacement Effects like Yushyn.
We think we know how it should be, but it is unclear.

11 minutes ago, Vespid1311 said:

That is first edition.
*insert "kill it if you have to" meme*
It has no bearing on current edition.

I am not disagreeing with the intent , I absolutely agree with you that is what it should mean in order to keep things in order. I do not think that most reasonable people would disagree with you either.
However, if someone argues otherwise, I actually don't think the Krennic player has a leg to stand on.

Let's try for something similar:
Optimise a Shield off Tavson.
When does Tavson trigger? At the time of shield loss or at the full completion of attack?
The timing window is identical. There is nothing in either that states that it must be done as part of the attack order, but solely when you take damage.

Would Tavson trigger at all? Optimized Prototype doesn't deal damage.

EDIT - to answer the spirit of your question, while an attack is being made, abilities that trigger bonus attacks are treated differently than abilities that do not trigger bonus attacks. At least, that's what I've gathered from the two places in the RRG that discuss bonus attacks.

9 minutes ago, Vespid1311 said:

Optimise a Shield off Tavson.
When does Tavson trigger? At the time of shield loss or at the full completion of attack?

He doesn't unless the rest of the attack does damage due to Optimized prototype not stating the target suffers damage. Same for Plasma Torpedo's special effect.

Here's the thing: does anyone actually think that, if FFG were asked again about Quickdraw and shield losses which happen during an attack, they'd rule on some timing other than the Aftermath step?

This isn't like Kanan and Inertial Dampeners, where the old "it doesn't work" always felt like a "because we said so." Either way with Kanan, it's simple and non-intrusive. Quickdraw isn't like that. Instead, there would be a massive disruption to play, if a second attack happened in the middle of one attack.

And it isn't like the rules fully contradict this. Some rules are pretty clear that it'd go in the Aftermath step. Others are a bit more vague. But that *ought* to be enough for a reasonable rules community. FFG's rules are only truly broken if we allow them to be.

While it's clear that Quickdraw would indeed trigger after Optimized Prototype burns a shield (both reference the "loss" of a shield), to me, it seems to me that Tavson would not trigger off of Optimized Prototype's ability. Loss of shields (or gaining damage cards) is not the same as suffering damage.

OK, after re-reading the "Damage" and "Shield" sections, I think I can be just about convinced of Tavson losing a Shield as not strictly taking damage, maybe...
I think I will probably concede there, despite it irking me and I find it really odd that a ship could lose all of its shields during play without technically having taken any damage...
...and it follows that this would not force the loss of Stealth Device, and that is super weird...
...this also would hold true for Plasma Torpedoes and ElectroProton Bombs stripping shields: They also cause the ship to Lose one shield.

So then the other part of Krennic: Flipping a damage card.
Flip a Direct Hit, and it says " Suffer 1 Hit damage and flip this card. "
This is indisputably taking damage.... Tavson could/should trigger immediately, right? Again, it is out of regular time as you normally don't take damage during an attack, rather at the end, but this is an extraordinary circumstance.

9 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Here's the thing: does anyone actually think that, if FFG were asked again about Quickdraw and shield losses which happen during an attack, they'd rule on some timing other than the Aftermath step? 

This isn't like Kanan and Inertial Dampeners, where the old "it doesn't work" always felt like a "because we said so." Either way with Kanan, it's simple and non-intrusive. Quickdraw isn't like that. Instead, there would be a massive disruption to play, if a second attack happened in the middle of one attack.

And it isn't like the rules fully contradict this. Some rules are pretty clear that it'd go in the Aftermath step. Others are a bit more vague. But that *ought* to be enough for a reasonable rules community. FFG's rules are only truly broken if we allow them to be.

I fully agree, but they did have to create the Replacement Effects section and explicitly spell it out in the FAQ section to ensure that Yushyn worked with Proach (despite the fact that it was bleedingly obvious that they were meant to work together), so maybe it isn't that obvious...

Yes, Tavson can trigger mid-attack. He could, for instance, take a crit and use a charge to use an action to flip that crit.

He doesn't trigger off OP because OP doesn't cause damage. You can think that's weird if you want, but it's the rules.

5 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Yes  , Tavson can trigger mid-attack. He could, for instance, take a crit  and use a charge to use an action to flip that  crit  .

Agreed. Because damage is suffered one at a time (RR 1.0.4, p8, Damage ) if Tavson took for example a Fuel Leak crit he could immediately use a charge to take that action and not worry about the next cross dealing the additional damage.

5 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

He  doesn't trigger off OP because OP doesn't cause damage  . You can think that's weird if you want, but it's the rules.

Aside from @Vespid1311 's example of Direct Hit of course 😉

8 hours ago, Vespid1311 said:

So then the other part of Krennic: Flipping a damage card.
Flip a Direct Hit, and it says " Suffer 1 Hit damage and flip this card. "
This is indisputably taking damage.... Tavson could/should trigger immediately, right   ?

Yes.