22 minutes ago, Paladin Ignatius said:

Hah! You know, I never looked at it that way before but yeah, this is so true. You can't please everyone, and these days everyone's so darn sensitive that even the slightest mistake will get you lambasted in the media. Gosh, I wish we could go back to the Heroic Age.

Please know that I don't truly read comics this way. However, it's often how Millennials view history by projecting their "modern values" in judgement of the past. It's why 200 year old monuments get torn down.

Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk television shows just announced. Guess which two heroes just jumped to the forefront of the casual fans' awareness?

11 minutes ago, CitizenKeen said:

Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk television shows just announced. Guess which two heroes just jumped to the forefront of the casual fans' awareness?

It makes sense now why they would be in the first wave of releases. It's all coming together! Let's hope it fares better than Marvel Rising.

Moon Knight TV show bodes well for him showing up soon.

1 hour ago, urloony said:

Possibly, but it would certainly be far easier to make those changes today than it was in 1975. I haven't done much research on how Uncanny X-Men was received at the time, or specifically how the new characters were welcomed by their audience. However, in GS X-Men #1, characters aren't being replaced, they are being added. This is an important point. Storm is being added, Colossus is being added, Kurt is being added, Warpath is being added. They are not replacing previously existing characters. Black Panther is another excellent example of creating a new minority character. Today when a "new" character is created they replace an existing character, even if only temporarily. Riri and Kamala are recent examples. Why not have the first Muslim super-hero be something new and different like Black Panther, Colossus, or Storm. Instead the writer and/or Marvel are implying that they are afraid their new character won't sell on their own, so they have to hijack a successful title in order for it to sell.

Except they were absolutely replacing existing white characters. Sure, they weren't taking their individual names, but Len Wein 'killed' off (they weren't actually dead, of course, but still) the entire X-Men team of established characters basically 'off-screen' so they could replace them with a new team specifically created for the sake of diversity. That's exactly the sort of thing that gets a whole swath of 'comic fans' on the internet worked up into an absolute frenzy. Y'know... unless the replacement character meets certain criteria, of course...

Let's look at some recent history:

It's announced that Riri Williams is headlining an Iron Man title as a new character named "Ironheart" (distinctly NOT 'Iron Man'). People lose their damned minds (well before the comic even came out, so none of this 'Riri was a bad character, that's why!' Even though, yeah... she's a bad character).

At the exact same time, Dr Doom (yes, THAT Dr. Doom) gets his own Iron Man title and starts actually calling himself Iron Man. Ugh. Not a blip.

Steve Rogers passes the mantle of Captain America to his partner of the last few decades, Sam Wilson. The masses are not pleased by this either.

A few years earlier, Bucky Barnes, the recently resurrected and much more recently very villainous Winter Soldier (who had just killed one of Steve's former partners, Jack Monroe) becomes Captain America. Not a blip.

Carol Danvers, after years of using a distaff version of Mar-Vell's code name due to her origin being tied directly to him, takes up his mantle to honor him (supposedly, anyway? The transition wasn't perfect by any means). The Internet is not happy about this at all.

A few years earlier, 'Marvel Boy' Noh-Varr (who in theory was an anti-hero, but was basically a villain) joins the Dark Avengers and starts calling himself Captain Marvel... basically only because the rest of the team of evil bastiches are also named after Avengers that they definitely aren't. Again, not a blip. Weird.

As a side-note... when I was a kid, 'Captain Marvel' was Monica Rambeau... period. Nobody tried to claim that Mar-Vell was 'better'. Nobody complained about a black woman 'replacing' a white character instead of having a codename of her own. I guess things were a bit different back then, after all.

1 hour ago, CitizenKeen said:

Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk television shows just announced. Guess which two heroes just jumped to the forefront of the casual fans' awareness?

I just hope these shows (along with the Moon Knight one and the four previously announced MCU series) are actually good. It seems like a lot of focus is being put on them, and the last thing we need is another Iron Fist that's actually closely tied with the films.

8 minutes ago, KBlumhardt said:

I just hope these shows (along with the Moon Knight one and the four previously announced MCU series) are actually good. It seems like a lot of focus is being put on them, and the last thing we need is another Iron Fist show that's actually closely tied with the films.

The problem(s) with Iron Fist were two-fold;

1) Some less than stellar sparring scenes (I’m looking at you spider lady), coupled with the character not seeming to be what they’re billed as (ie Danny routinely gets beat up in hand to hand by every Tom, ****, and Harry ninja/random person he fights).

2) Although they, laudably, depicted Danny as having some fairly plausible psychological problems stemming from the plane crash and loss of his parents at an early age, it’s not exactly “fun” to watch a super hero who has a massive failure of self confidence for 99% of a shows run, to the point that they never seem to be able to use the one power they’re known for.

It wasn’t interesting in Spider-Man either. Captain Marvel might be the only movie I’ve ever seen actually pull it off, and that’s because it’s about refusing to adhere to the artificial limitations imposed by others, not the hero just suddenly not being able to do their schtick.

10 minutes ago, Derrault said:

The problem(s) with Iron Fist were two-fold;

1) Some less than stellar sparring scenes (I’m looking at you spider lady), coupled with the character not seeming to be what they’re billed as (ie Danny routinely gets beat up in hand to hand by every Tom, ****, and Harry ninja/random person he fights).

2) Although they, laudably, depicted Danny as having some fairly plausible psychological problems stemming from the plane crash and loss of his parents at an early age, it’s not exactly “fun” to watch a super hero who has a massive failure of self confidence for 99% of a shows run, to the point that they never seem to be able to use the one power they’re known for.

It wasn’t interesting in Spider-Man either. Captain Marvel might be the only movie I’ve ever seen actually pull it off, and that’s because it’s about refusing to adhere to the artificial limitations imposed by others, not the hero just suddenly not being able to do their schtick.

Agreed on both points. On top of that don't forget the fact that, for some reason, the Marvel Netflix writers seemingly had no idea how to fill up 13 episodes... so you had the same mid-season slump that pretty much every single season of all of those shows had. What a disaster.

1 hour ago, CitizenKeen said:

Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk television shows just announced. Guess which two heroes just jumped to the forefront of the casual fans' awareness?

Shame these will probably only be in the Disney streaming service. I'd like to watch the She-Hulk show but really don't want to pay for another streaming service.

Iron Fist, Agents of Shield, Daredevil, etc., were all Marvel Television, the sad sibling of Marvel Studios.

These new shows are being made by Marvel Studios, exactly the same people making the movies, and it's been confirmed there all going to appear in movies themselves.

1 minute ago, TechnoGolem said:

Shame these will probably only be in the Disney streaming service. I'd like to watch the She-Hulk show but really don't want to pay for another streaming service.

At this point, I'm struggling to think of another streaming service that can keep up with Disney+. Maybe Amazon. Probably not Netflix. Definitely not Hulu.

11 minutes ago, KBlumhardt said:

Agreed on both points. On top of that don't forget the fact that, for some reason, the Marvel Netflix writers seemingly had no idea how to fill up 13 episodes... so you had the same mid-season slump that pretty much every single season of all of those shows had. What a disaster.

This has really become a problem for shows with a seasonal arc. The story can and should be finished in less than a season but they need a full season. So here come filler episodes that hurt the show.

Just now, CitizenKeen said:

At this point, I'm struggling to think of another streaming service that can keep up with Disney+. Maybe Amazon. Probably not Netflix. Definitely not Hulu.

I wonder if Disney+ will be able to last. Disney is already throwing a lot of money getting it off the ground. They'll toss even more money into making more shows.

Doesn't help that they sunk a ton of money into their Star Wars theme park and attendance is below what was expected. Their park attendance is down in general.

They're blowing through their money quickly and many don't want to pay for another streaming service. Seems like every channel will release one soon. I think Disney has the best chance of the new ones though.

12 minutes ago, TechnoGolem said:

I wonder if Disney+ will be able to last. Disney is already throwing a lot of money getting it off the ground. They'll toss even more money into making more shows.

Doesn't help that they sunk a ton of money into their Star Wars theme park and attendance is below what was expected. Their park attendance is down in general.

They're blowing through their money quickly and many don't want to pay for another streaming service. Seems like every channel will release one soon. I think Disney has the best chance of the new ones though.

Given that, going forward, it's the only source for Disney movies (like Laddin), I don't know a single parent who isn't subscribing. Same reason HBO bought Sesame Street. Kids aren't tolerant of juggling streaming services.

Yes with these new announcements, Moon Knight sounds like a fairly safe bet for an upcoming deck, and I guess I’m getting Disney +!

7 hours ago, FearLord said:

Yes with these new announcements, Moon Knight sounds like a fairly safe bet for an upcoming deck, and I guess I’m getting Disney +!

My only hope is that we get the ones depicted on the box art first

13 hours ago, urloony said:

Please know that I don't truly read comics this way. However, it's often how Millennials view history by projecting their "modern values" in judgement of the past. It's why 200 year old monuments get torn down.

No, I knew you were just making a point. I do agree that people who project their political or social views on the past forget a crucial fact: hindsight's 20/20.

13 hours ago, CitizenKeen said:

Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk television shows just announced. Guess which two heroes just jumped to the forefront of the casual fans' awareness?

12 hours ago, CitizenKeen said:

Moon Knight TV show bodes well for him showing up soon.

Ms. Marvel, ehh. She-Hulk would be interesting, so long as it isn't her newest form, which is kinda disturbing. I would totally love to see Moonknight.

13 hours ago, CitizenKeen said:

Moon Knight TV show bodes well for him showing up soon.

A Moon Knight show would be awesome. Make it a black and white noir crime drama with some action thrown in.

Disney+ is a shoe in surely?

All of Disney, Pixar, Star Wars and Marvel?

There’s tons of that stuff I haven’t seen yet - why pay £5-15 per movie to purchase them on Amazon/stream them, when I can get it all for £6~ a month?

I'm excited about Moon Knight, but I suspect MCU Moon Knight is just going to be Blade's excessively grim dark side kick.

Kamala, on the other hand? An almost guaranteed Brie Larson cameo/recurring role? **** yes. My kid's the most excited - she's his third favorite super hero after Hulk and Miles Morales.

She Hulk, though? That's the "killer app" for my household, though. My wife and I are already talking dinner viewing parties around that one.

22 hours ago, KBlumhardt said:

Except they were absolutely replacing existing white characters. Sure, they weren't taking their individual names, but Len Wein 'killed' off (they weren't actually dead, of course, but still) the entire X-Men team of established characters basically 'off-screen' so they could replace them with a new team specifically created for the sake of diversity. That's exactly the sort of thing that gets a whole swath of 'comic fans' on the internet worked up into an absolute frenzy. Y'know... unless the replacement character meets certain criteria,

The new X-Men were recruited to find and save the previous ones. The old weren’t killed off or replaced in any way. Beast had already left the team an wasn’t even in the comic. Shortly after Angel and Iceman leave the team too. Cyclops and Jean stay for the next 30 issues until Dark Phoenix.

And, I recall people destroying the Doom Iron Man concept on the internet. And, I don’t seem to recall much uproar over the first Captain a marvel launch or Sam Wilson Cap. Remember when the Punisher tried to be Cap? That was absurd and people complained about it more than they ever did about Sam.

On 8/23/2019 at 7:26 PM, urloony said:

Please know that I don't truly read comics this way. However, it's often how Millennials view history by projecting their "modern values" in judgement of the past. It's why 200 year old monuments get torn down.

There’s a reason subjectivism is a dead letter when it comes to ethics.

Almost Daredevil's entire run was great and season 1 of Jessica Jones was amazing. Everything else kinda fell down fast over at Netflix. It did feel like they lacked inspiration when doing anything other than Kingpin and Purple Man. It just goes to show just how important villains are to the genre. You can't phone it in with the villains. If they do Daredevil again I'm gonna have a hard time seeing anyone but Charlie Cox in that role.

I can't be more excited about Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk getting their own show. I'm also very curious how they handle Moon Knight. That could be a real interesting show to watch if you know nothing about the premise of Moon Knight. There have been some really amazing runs on his book and some stinkers. I'm hoping for a Declan Shalvey/Warren Ellis inspired depiction personally. She-Hulk's show better be equal parts legal procedural and super heroics.

Yes now the picks for the heroes make more sense. I'd have to imagine this means Moon Knight is somewhere in the future of this game.

4 hours ago, Derrault said:

There’s a reason subjectivism is a dead letter when it comes to ethics.

Ours is a nihilistic society of moral relativism.