38 minutes ago, phillos said:

They wanted to snap the character back to his roots because they thought he was getting to far away from his core concept. While I can understand that (and maybe even agree that Spiderman works better as a kid trying to make his way in the work), I do think this is the exact example where getting a new kid in the Spiderman costume would have been a better choice. Let Peter grow up and start a family (stay in the comic continuity) and mentor someone new. I agree handling it the way they did turned me off from reading Spiderman comics. Pulling the rug out like that makes it so you can't really get invested. That probably was the worst thing they did to Spiderman, but I still really hate that Spider Totem stuff.

I think this is why Miles Morales Spider-Man works so well, because he is the kid trying to figure out the hero business.

21 hours ago, Paladin Ignatius said:

I agree. Most of the new Marvel characters and plot-lines from the past five years have been aimed a fringe groups within the comics community, not the tried-and-true fans. While I did enjoy the Sam Wilson (Falcon) as Captain America series, it was the exception to the norm. If Marvel wants to keep their fans, they need to stick to the characters that made them so famous in the first place.

That being said, I would love to see Falcon America vs. "Stevil" Rogers as a scenario pack.

I think I speak for everyone when I say that the villain in the Secret Empire better be the writer behind Hydra Cap

5 minutes ago, Turtlefan2082 said:

I think I speak for everyone when I say that the villain in the Secret Empire better be the writer behind Hydra Cap

Harsh. I take it you did NOT like the Secret Empire event?

2 minutes ago, Paladin Ignatius said:

Harsh. I take it you did NOT like the Secret Empire event?

In my honest opinion, the only decent thing done in Secret Empire was ending Hydra Cap. The persona/character wasn't just altering back stories, but it was cheap shock value aimed at getting the masses to talk about Steve Rogers again.

2 hours ago, Turtlefan2082 said:

In my honest opinion, the only decent thing done in Secret Empire was ending Hydra Cap. The persona/character wasn't just altering back stories, but it was cheap shock value aimed at getting the masses to talk about Steve Rogers again.

I agree that it was done to create media hype. However, I thought it was a good "what if Cap was evil" scenario, kind of like the Marvel version of DC's Injustice: Gods Among Us Superman goes bad. Also, you're going to hate me for this, but Stevil Rogers is currently incarcerated at a black site prison in the comics.

My problem was not the story itself, but that the after effects keep lingering. I can't just read a Steve story now without it coming up it seems.

I think Captain America: Steve Rogers was good. But Secret Empire got so bloated.

2 hours ago, Radix2309 said:

I think Captain America: Steve Rogers was good. But Secret Empire got so bloated.

Yeah, that is true. I've only collected maybe a tenth of all of the comics for it.

3 hours ago, phillos said:

My problem was not the story itself, but that the after effects keep lingering. I can't just read a Steve story now without it coming up it seems.

But this is because it was so devastating when everyone found out that Cap was (supposedly) a traitor. When someone you love and respect turns out to be a wolf in sheep's clothing, and uses his power to do some truly awful things, that leaves a big mark on the public. To quote the comics:

"No one remembers Omaha. No one cares about your "greatest generation." They remember Hydra. They remember the camps. They remember Rick Jones. They remember an American Stalin who looked just like you. Washington's a new town now. Filled with all kinds of theories about what really happened to our saintly "Captain." For instance, how does America know which Steve is out playing cowboy and which one is locked away?" - Gen. "Thunderbolt" Ross, Captain America #2 (706)

23 hours ago, phillos said:

I don't mind giving the costume over to a new character. That's fine. My issue usually is going back and monkeying with a characters origin story.

I agree with this premise and changing origin stories is generally a no no, with certain exceptions (Human Torch being one example). Modern comics however are more subtle than just changing origins. During the entirety of Riri's Ironman run, Tony Stark's entire role was reduced to emotionally validating Riri as the Ironman while she shat on him the entire time. Tony became an emasculated punching bag while Riri runs amok. Changing a character's personality is akin to changing the origin story, and sometimes even worse.

4 hours ago, Paladin Ignatius said:

kind of like the Marvel version of DC's Injustice: Gods Among Us Superman goes bad.

The only thing Injustice had going for it is that it was a separate universe. The fact was established in the first game. The comics and the sequel establishes that universe. Steve Rogers: Captain America, and in continuation Secret Empire, was set in the main universe, and thus lingering consequences.

On 8/16/2019 at 6:47 PM, Paladin Ignatius said:

Really? If this is the case, then why do the card images all come from the comics? And why is everyone talking about comic book characters that they want to see, and not the MCU characters?

This is very true. I think the trade paperback in particular is a major reason of the decrease in comic magazine sales. While I prefer to buy the individual issues, the convenience of the paperback does have a strong appeal. But regardless of the form, the medium itself isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Not sure if you're being sarcastic but I'll answer anyways.

Seems obvious why you would use comic art over MCU photos. You have a vastly superior selection to pick from. This allows them to add characters that movie goers never heard of but comic readers love. She Hulk would be an example of this.

That said, they will want to use some characters non-comic fans know of to bring in as many people as posible. Do you really think they would include Captain Marvel or Black Panther in the starter set if they didn't have movies that made a billion dollars? Most people never heard of either character until they got a movie. If they never had movies, we probably would have Thor, Hulk, Captain America or Wolverine in the base set with a popular but relatively unknown character to the general public.

As for talking about comic characters... That's simple, we're nerds. We're a bunch of people, on a gaming form, talking about a game based on comics. I'm betting most of us read comics to one extent or another and are familiar with the source material. Of course we'll say we want our favorite characters in the game. We probably all have a few characters that we love but were never in a movie or had a bit part.

2 hours ago, urloony said:

I agree with this premise and changing origin stories is generally a no no, with certain exceptions (Human Torch being one example). Modern comics however are more subtle than just changing origins. During the entirety of Riri's Ironman run, Tony Stark's entire role was reduced to emotionally validating Riri as the Ironman while she shat on him the entire time. Tony became an emasculated punching bag while Riri runs amok. Changing a character's personality is akin to changing the origin story, and sometimes even worse.

Ugh tried to give Iron Heart a chance awhile back. Simply an awful character that felt like she was on her way to be the next super villain.

Even if the writing was better, I would probably still find the character dull because she is too similar to Iron Man. Had the same problem with Miles and Spider Gwen. Just felt like repeats of Spider-Man stories I've read and watched countless times before. A real shame because both had potential

Silk is another Spider-Man "clone" but I can give them credit for making her feel more unique. Shame her series was so boring to read.

3 hours ago, TechnoGolem said:

That said, they will want to use some characters non-comic fans know of to bring in as many people as posible. Do you really think they would include Captain Marvel or Black Panther in the starter set if they didn't have movies that made a billion dollars? Most people never heard of either character until they got a movie. If they never had movies, we probably would have Thor, Hulk, Captain America or Wolverine in the base set with a popular but relatively unknown character to the general public.

To be fair, they are both major Avengers characters. Black Panther has been a mainstay for decades and has a decent fanbase. Carol had been pushed since House of M, way before the movie was in talks.

2 hours ago, TechnoGolem said:

Ugh tried to give Iron Heart a chance awhile back. Simply an awful character that felt like she was on her way to be the next super villain.

Even if the writing was better, I would probably still find the character dull because she is too similar to Iron Man. Had the same problem with Miles and Spider Gwen. Just felt like repeats of Spider-Man stories I've read and watched countless times before. A real shame because both had potential

Silk is another Spider-Man "clone" but I can give them credit for making her feel more unique. Shame her series was so boring to read.

I just hate how they introduced her. There was no need to kill Tony off to push her. They launched Iron Man as a flagship post Secret Wars, but you don't just kill off the main character after a year. He should have just stayed alive and you create a family of books with Riri and maybe War Machine or something.

10 hours ago, TechnoGolem said:

Even if the writing was better, I would probably still find the character dull because she is too similar to Iron Man. Had the same problem with Miles and Spider Gwen. Just felt like repeats of Spider-Man stories I've read and watched countless times before. A real shame because both had potential

Silk is another Spider-Man "clone" but I can give them credit for making her feel more unique. Shame her series was so boring to read.

I feel that Miles is a more believable permutation of Spider-Man because he only becomes Spider-Man after the Peter Parker Spider-Man of his universe (Earth-1610) is killed. He becomes the successor to the role, not the replacement. Miles tries to live up to the ideals that the first Spider-Man did, thus making him (in my mind) a very relatable character.

On 8/19/2019 at 4:34 PM, phillos said:

They wanted to snap the character back to his roots because they thought he was getting to far away from his core concept. While I can understand that (and maybe even agree that Spiderman works better as a kid trying to make his way in the work), I do think this is the exact example where getting a new kid in the Spiderman costume would have been a better choice. Let Peter grow up and start a family (stay in the comic continuity) and mentor someone new. I agree handling it the way they did turned me off from reading Spiderman comics. Pulling the rug out like that makes it so you can't really get invested. That probably was the worst thing they did to Spiderman, but I still really hate that Spider Totem stuff.

This is kinda one of the main reasons I no longer follow main series.
I just pick up the rare 2nd hand TPB or standalone storyline.

Modern day antics and artquality issues asside I am kinda tired of the hodgepodge, reboots, resets and the feeling nothing matters.
Nothing ever mattered but you know what I mean. Everything goes reset, apocalypse, crossover, total chaos way way waaaaay too much.

It’s a shame too. I get why companies want to reset the universe or rebrand character concepts. Make something tried and true all over again with an update. Problem for me is that these characters have been with me since I’ve grown up. Spider-man from the 60s to early 90s grew up with me. I had a thirty year relationship with the guy. Now I’m supposed to accept giant character shifts because of a change in creative teams? Just retire the character and make someone new already. Hydra Cap was one of the dumbest, most ill-conceived plot twists of all time.

3 hours ago, gokubb said:

It’s a shame too. I get why companies want to reset the universe or rebrand character concepts. Make something tried and true all over again with an update. Problem for me is that these characters have been with me since I’ve grown up. Spider-man from the 60s to early 90s grew up with me. I had a thirty year relationship with the guy. Now I’m supposed to accept giant character shifts because of a change in creative teams? Just retire the character and make someone new already. Hydra Cap was one of the dumbest, most ill-conceived plot twists of all time.

I think it was a fascinating plot twist with lotsof potential. It isnt too different from House of M, Snap Wilson, or any other reality altering.

But the story went somewhere it really shouldnt have, and the ending didnt wrap it up properly.

31 minutes ago, Radix2309 said:

I think it was a fascinating plot twist with lotsof potential. It isnt too different from House of M, Snap Wilson, or any other reality altering.

But the story went somewhere it really shouldnt have, and the ending didnt wrap it up properly.

Ah, House of M. Utter garbage as well in my opinion. And, Snap Wilson really isn't a close comparison. While ridiculous, it happened in the 70s. Falcon was created in the 70s. It wasn't like 50 years of content was up and thrown away. It was a bad story for sure, but Falcon was a bit sidekick. All their reality altering stories are cash-grab craziness that masks the fact they cannot tell a well-paced story with continuing consequences where old characters evolve and new characters are created organically.

On 8/13/2019 at 3:28 AM, FearLord said:

It sounds like Thor will be the next hero after Ms Marvel, so likely releasing in March. Thor 4 is still going to be a few years away at that point, so I’d expect Donald Blake Thor.

Thor will be interesting regardless... as it has been many, many years since Thor was Don Blake.

I do think it's strange that everyone is jumping on the "Jane Foster is becoming the new Thor in Thor 4!" thing like it's some massive change that's going to happen. We don't know to what extent that is actually true. Sure, we know she will be "Thor" for at least part of the movie... but Hemsworth is still in the movie (and I assume will still be the 'star') and has said repeatedly that he's down for doing more Thor movies, so I expect that even if he's not the one and only wielder of the power of Thor at the end of the movie, he'll at least still be Thor, set up for another sequel down the road. Even if they wanted to explore the 'Jane Thorster" storyline further, Portman's very rocky history with the MCU would seemingly make that a pretty damned risky thing to bet the recently-revitalized Thor franchise farm on.

On August 16, 2019 at 6:43 AM, cheapmate said:

Would the intended audience for the LCG consist more of comic book readers or solely movie watchers? Just wondering

Personally, when I think of Magneto I think of him as the X-Man he has been for a long time instead of the Gandalf movie version

Some of both, obviously, but "people that watch superhero movies" is a much larger group overall than "people that read superhero comics."

On August 18, 2019 at 12:06 AM, urloony said:

Unfortunately, I think this is all true. If Marvel and DC would cater their books more to normies, their stuff would sell. It's no mystery why their old stuff, back issues, reprints, etc. sell better. It's because it is better. There's nothing wrong with "moving forward," you really just need to understand who your audience is. Marvel and DC have forgotten that, and they don't know who their audience truly is anymore. Instead they listen to the loudest voices and try to market to that. The loudest voices don't buy comics, which has become painfully evident for everyone except Marvel and DC.

Here we go again...

My rose-tinted spectacles want to see characters from the golden age of four colour comics. I want to see classic heroes and villains of the 70s, 80s & 90s. The mooted expansions so far sound perfect to me...Green Goblin, Captain America and the Wrecking Crew. Keep bringing them on!

8 hours ago, Vlad3theImpaler said:

Here we go again...

I'm not sure what the issue is Vlad. Are you afraid of discussion or what? You never did tell me what your favorite issue # or storyline from Ms. Marvel was. What do you like best about Kamala Khan's run of Ms. Marvel?

11 hours ago, Vlad3theImpaler said:

Here we go again...

Although Urloony no doubt was referring to social justice issues, I would like to add the point that he's right, comics are not very accessible for new fans. There's so many decades upon decades of storylines, subplots, settings, alternate universes, resets, re-imaginings, gender-swaps, etc., that it can become extremely overwhelming for someone new to reading them. That's probably the biggest issue facing comics readership, although everyone either wants to latch onto "pandering" on one side and "lack of diversity" on the other as the main issues.

36 minutes ago, Supertoe said:

Although Urloony no doubt was referring to social justice issues, I would like to add the point that he's right, comics are not very accessible for new fans. There's so many decades upon decades of storylines, subplots, settings, alternate universes, resets, re-imaginings, gender-swaps, etc., that it can become extremely overwhelming for someone new to reading them. That's probably the biggest issue facing comics readership, although everyone either wants to latch onto "pandering" on one side and "lack of diversity" on the other as the main issues.

Those alternate universes, resets, re-imaginings and gender-swaps are all done to make for an easier entrance for a new reader. Instead of keeping the current base intrigued, they're always chasing the customers they do not currently have and trying to make it accessible to them. It drives every decision Marvel and DC make.

44 minutes ago, gokubb said:

Those alternate universes, resets, re-imaginings and gender-swaps are all done to make for an easier entrance for a new reader. Instead of keeping the current base intrigued, they're always chasing the customers they do not currently have and trying to make it accessible to them. It drives every decision Marvel and DC make.

How does that make it accessible? When I would google a character I didn't know from Dice Masters, it was always incredibly overwhelming to sift through all the different versions on wikipedia and figure out who this character actually is. And I know more than the average LCG fan about the setting.