This month's question is "Overall: How do you feel about Wave 4 and the July Points Update?". Visit the wiki to vote, and discuss your answers here. You can also see what changed in the points & slots update here, in case that helps.

I tried to split answers into more granularity than "thanks, I hate it". Let's get voting!

Last month's poll results and discussion can be found here.

If you can't see the poll on the wiki (sometimes happens on mobile), you can go directly to it here.

I answered Mostly Good. My favorite list got nerfed, but I'm experimenting more and the game feels fresher. There are more things that I enjoy flying, and more things that feel wholesome. And, of course, the meta was starting to get more than a little stale. There has been significantly more list variety since the points change and that has led to more new experiences and more entertaining tournaments.

Torn. I play the 3 oldest factions but am mostly focused on S&V, and what S&V had done just feels really off...

July update sorta felt like a crew walking up to a half finished house and only throwing down a welcome mat. I don't hate what they did, but so much work needed done that they didn't do.

Wave 4 was mostly cool. Hyena was about on par with my expectations, but it didn't blow me away. The N1 is cool but from an early perspective it seems like Ric has a dangerously high pick rate. The transport seems to have been more fair than my wildest expectations, so that's cool, but the new crew don't seem to have really done as much for the Falcon/Fortress as I expected. Most of the new generic upgrades are super niche, which is fine, but means they're not moving the needle much.

So I went with torn, but maybe that was too harsh. I'm having more fun with X-Wing than I was a month ago.

I voted mostly good. It's hit me a bit, but overall the game is much better. I'm very willing to bleed a bit for that. I do with some ships got a little more love, or some attention at all, but oh well.

I'm enjoying the Hyena quite a lot, and Separatists really needed some variety in their faction. Bombardment Drone launching/dropping a proximity mine is great, and I love the trick of placing a fuse marker on it so I can drop it on a friend, then an enemy flies through and triggers the mine. 404 is a great dice boost at close range, and the engagement coordinate from 32C is great too. I'm finding some very fun shenanigans with this ship... I'm not sure if tourney players like it, but for casual it's pressing all the right buttons for me.

Leia and the transport are helping Resistance too. That transport is exactly what that faction needed (a cheap crew carrier and lots of new crew), and I love my Ello Asty blue tallon + bb-8 shenanigans. Scavenged YT still needs lots of work; it's too pricey for what it ends up doing IMO.

I haven't flown the Naboo yet, but I've fought Ric many times and he seems like a great pilot with lots of interesting play and counter-play options, which is what I like to see. Haven't seen the other pilots yet, other than maybe Anakin in a furball game.

The points update hammered some of my favorite casual lists, and that's unfortunate. But what I gained in return is a more enjoyable meta, and I appreciate that a lot more than I dislike having to redo some of my fleets. I haven't seen Rebel Beef on the table since the nerf, and that brings me a spark of joy. Unfortunately separatists are still almost locked into all vulture swarms all the time, occasionally swapping the belbullab for a hyena now, but not often. That new relay also is a very strong option for vulture swarms, reinforcing that as the faction's one playstyle. But I've been flying off-meta experiments for the faction and enjoying them -- most recently a proximity mine bombardment drone with Grievous and Darth Maul. That belbullab got a lot better thanks to the cheaper title and discounts to pilots, which was sorely needed IMO. I like that Landing Struts and Grapple Struts are both cheap, so sitting on rocks is now finally a thing people set out to do. IMO it's a very fun and interesting playstyle, particularly on the Hyena.

It's sad that Hate Asajj got an overall points increase, but oh well. I've rebuilt my Asajj-Torani-Jakku list and enjoyed flying it casual all the same. A few other pilots I like got minor point discounts, though often its a wash or overall mild nerf with other increases.

I've tried to get Kestal to work since the update but she's still not quite there. Before I get yelled at to "move on" and stop thinking about junk pilots (because, you know, internet), know that I like to deliberately experiment with off-meta stuff and see what I can do with it, see what the points update did for it, etc. You don't need to agree, you can just leave me alone about it; casual players are not a threat to you.

I find Kestal especially compelling because of what her ability does to normally meta-dominant foes. And when Kestal works, she really works. She's great for hunting TIE Defenders, Force Users, and anyone else who relies on modifying those defense dice. I've murdered Luke Skywalker with Kestal because he was reduced to raw dice luck with no defensive mods. But she's saddled with an underwhelming ship, whose cost, action bar, health, and dial do not complement her well at all. And low-agility beef is still in vogue across many factions, even if the specific Rebel Beef fleet isn't. An Ace- and Force-Hunter with a lousy ship and milktoast initiative kinda struggles in such an environment, but if you knew you wouldn't face much beef, Kestal would do much better.

Overall the TIE Aggressor isn't in a good spot, and because FFG is rightfully cagey about letting people spam an aggressor swarm with barrage rockets or turrets etc (based on other swarms that have cropped up), they're not dropping the price quickly. Also the tie aggressor point drop was paired to a turret increase, so eh... it was nearly a wash for most aggressor builds I'd like to run.

I'm pleased to see a 2nd illicit slot on the Kihraxz. Makes sense to me, as a third mod isn't as helpful as a 2nd illicit. It's joined the Lancer in holding the title of most illicit ship in the galaxy! Cheap deadman and cybernetics sounds like a fun layout for generic k-fighters, and I may like to build a fleet around that. Someone on the wiki mentioned that you can use Cikatro to swap cybernetics for a 2nd Deadman Switch on a near-death kihraxz, so it deals 2 damage when it pops. That sounds like a hilarious gimmick, and I have to fly that sometime soon. Perhaps with a Hound's Tooth.

I like Passive Sensors and I keep meaning to field some munition lists and/or TIE/x1 lists with it, but other stuff keeps jumping in line. Angled Deflectors, in contrast, is junk in its current form. Losing a shield, filling the mod slot, spending that many points, and using your action to reinforce will never be a worthy price for the occasional reduction in damage. I've not yet found a single worthy use for it. I suspect FFG will be aggressively adjusting those points in the next update; they wanted to be very cautious at the start. Apparently 1.0's reinforce still haunts their memory, even though 2.0's reinforce is usually quite weak.

I like the cheaper Decimator with triple crew. I flew it a few times (variations of Kestal and Vermeil with RAC or Oicunn) and the decimator feels like it's in a good place. Oicunn in particular has grown on me. I like blocking and nuking aces.

I'm surprised I haven't tried any of the new munitions yet, but there are so many hours in the x-wing day. I look forward to plasma torps and diamond-boron trials. I need to try out the new Jumpmaster too. New gunner slot and cheaper price makes a ton of sense, and hopefully the price is right now though I do worry. I'll need to get Dengar and friends onto the table soon.

I like that TIE Defenders got a bit cheaper. I like seeing them on the table even though they're monsters to fight. That said, Juke got pricier and that feels right too, so Juke Defenders will be a wash and I'm good with that, and other ships will have to work just a bit harder to equip it. Juke was seeing a lot of use before and I'm looking forward to seeing it just a bit less.

HWKs got slightly cheaper in both factions, but they're still really expensive with that title. I'm happy for the lower code on Jan to offset other increases in Wullffwarro War Crimes, which still stands as my favorite fleet.

I wish Z-95s and Missiles had gotten some love, since both see very little use. But there's only so much that can go into one update without making it too hard to test thoroughly. I suspect the next update will be First Order's time to shine, with points updates to pair with their new ship.

I almost forgot to cheer for the more expensive rebel Leia, but yay! Now it's a careful choice whether to include her, instead of an automatic yes.

Overall I like what this did, even though would have liked to have seen more. Realistically, FFG can only thoroughly test and vet so many changes at once, and I get that. I'm just pleased to have the top meta flattened out a bit so we see more variety and can try new things! And new slots for ships that needed them! Most of my favorite casual fleets weren't hurt too much, and it's been an overall very good change.

It fixed some things that NEEDED it, went a bit heavy handed on others, and didn't do enough on a couple things. It nuked two lists I was warming up to, BUT I absolutely adore this new list I'm flying and never would have made had the points not changed.

3 minutes ago, Wazat said:

Overall the TIE Aggressor isn't in a good spot

The TIE Aggressor is in the same exact spot it was pre-points change unless you run it bare...

Making one question about both Wave 4 and the points changes means none of the answers fit my opinion.

1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

The TIE Aggressor is in the same exact spot it was pre-points change unless you run it bare...

Relatively speaking, it got better as crazy **** got more reasonable 👍

@Wazat Can I recommend better wording for "mostly good"? It shouldn't say "it hurt me", as that just exacerbates how people perceive their schtick being good bad cheap or expensive as a quality metric for game quality. We really should promote more altruistic and nuanced perspective.

The way I'd put it is, the points generally good for the game, diversified the meta, there were a few point changes I was slightly disappointed by (that I did not think were as good for the game), but nothing game breaking.

Another thing I believe is that the point change seems a little arbitrary right now, its unclear to me its correlation to results or more data.

I am getting good vibes about the N-1, especially Ric until the next points change, it is a fun ship to fly. However, the Resistance Transport may prove to be a bomb because the dial is very limited compared to the freewheeling flying the rest of the faction likes. The points did hurt my Rebel Beef list and I have pretty much given up on Scum as a competitive faction, especially in Hyperspace.

9 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

The TIE Aggressor is in the same exact spot it was pre-points change unless you run it bare...

Yea, but I was hoping for a proper fix, so I was slightly saddened by it.

But there's enough good in the game to explore, so not everything needs to be helped at once.

6 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

@Wazat Can I recommend better wording for "mostly good"? It shouldn't say "it hurt me", as that just exacerbates how people perceive their schtick being good bad cheap or expensive as a quality metric for game quality. We really should promote more altruistic and nuanced perspective.

I think I maybe understand what you're saying? It should be more rounded. Maybe update it to "Mostly Good: I didn't get everything I wanted or it hurt me a bit, but the overall result has been positive. I'm willing to give up a bit for a better game."

3 hours ago, Wazat said:

Yea, but I was hoping for a proper fix, so I was slightly saddened by it.

But there's enough good in the game to explore, so not everything needs to be helped at once.

I think I maybe understand what you're saying? It should be more rounded. Maybe update it to "Mostly Good: I didn't get everything I wanted or it hurt me a bit, but the overall result has been positive. I'm willing to give up a bit for a better game."

not quite. Let's try and avoid making evaluations about what is good for the game based on what is good for "me".

Very happy. Several of my lists dropped 10ish points. The only pilots I regularly field that saw increases were Anakin, Vader, Soontir Fel and Whisper, but those too were too cheap anyway. Time to put Obi-Wan and Echo on the table (less sure about Maarek and Turr)! My beloved Inquisitors (and the best pilot in the game, Seventh Sister) got even cheaper, named Torrents seem playable now, and with nearly every First Order pilot getting cheaper the faction is looking stronger than ever. El Presidente is back!

6 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

not quite. Let's try and avoid making evaluations about what is good for the game based on what is good for "me".

I don't quite agree. The whole point of that answer is "this hurt me, but it's worth it to make the game better". The question everyone is answering is how they feel about the points update. Many people take it very personally, at least at first, when their favorite fleet gets nerfed, and that question frames that scenario less as "I'm being personally attacked" and more as "This felt kinda bad but I realize it was needed, and I'm willing to accept it".

The game is always about what's good for "me", as everyone is a "me" and we're all very personally invested in the game. We would not have invested thousands of dollars into it otherwise. And if the game is no longer good at all for a "me", we'll lose a lot of players who don't see a future in it. We all do better though when we can realize there's a difference between the game itself being a disaster vs a few of us suffering personal disasters.

I want to be very clear here -- when someone's favorite fleet gets horrifically nerfed to oblivion (think Handbrake Han), it can feel super, super personal. It sucks hard. But very often people can bypass that personal reaction by realizing there's a larger game out there, and the nerf wasn't malicious, nor was it personal; it was just necessary to make the overall game better.

That's what this is about. "I suffered pain, but I understand and I can accept it. I can see the larger picture".

That's my intent with these questions -- to tease out how people are responding to the local and global effects of the update on a very personal level. How do they feel about the update. It's been a out for few weeks, and people have had a chance to get past initial reactions and settle into a broader conclusion. I'd like to hear what they've decided.

If you have specific wording in mind for how to improve an answer, please share that wording and we can talk about it. Otherwise I don't know if we're on the same page, and I don't want to make lots of random changes, blindly stabbing in the dark. Plus, if I'm going to reword a question, I want to do so extremely rarely and with measured intent, so I'm not sweeping the rug out from someone who answered one question only to have their answer changed to something they didn't intend. So I'd appreciate help in tweaking the wording so I'm only doing it once. (I wish we'd done this when I previewed this question in the previous poll's thread, but I only got one response.)

Thanks!

3 minutes ago, Wazat said:

if you have specific wording in mind for how to improve an answer, please share that wording and we can talk about it. Otherwise I don't know if we're on the same page, and I don't want to make lots of random changes, blindly stabbing in the dark. Plus, if I'm going to reword a question, I want to do so extremely rarely and with measured intent, so I'm not sweeping the rug out from someone who answered one question only to have their answer changed to something they didn't intend. So I'd appreciate help in tweaking the wording so I'm only doing it once. (I wish we'd done this when I previewed this question in the previous poll's thread, but I only got one response.)

Thanks!

Yeah, we are definitely NOT on the same page lol.

A thought for next time. I wouldn't change it now either.

And I just plain disagree. Sorry but I've had enough years of 1.0 players trying to justify really broken and rules-gimmicky style stuff like Fat Han and Handbrake Han to not believe anymore that that type of mentality is good for a play group or game in the long run.

3 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Yeah, we are definitely NOT on the same page lol.

A thought for next time. I wouldn't change it now either.

And I just plain disagree. Sorry but I've had enough years of 1.0 players trying to justify really broken and rules-gimmicky style stuff like Fat Han and Handbrake Han to not believe anymore that that type of mentality is good for a play group or game in the long run.

Out of curiosity then, how would you have worded it?

The point change has had a very positive effect by making rebel beef not a no-brainer, top meta choice. Very much needed to promote list variety

Current top beef lists, specifically obi-arc-enobi, are far more fair because the beef is neither fully modded nor above i2 (and also they're fat medium bases that can't ignore or outright benefit from stress)

Plus they're arcs, so much better to look at!

Problem is I HATE mirror matches, so I'm sinking time into CiS and Resistance for now.

I believe the CiS changes were definitely for the better, as running even "nerfed" sith has made it abundantly clear how utterly borked they are with hate.

For the resistance, across the board t-70 tweeks are very welcome as is Lulo being reasonably **** costed for an i5 effective 3 die primary (heroic crackshot Lulo = naked I 1 t-70)

Only real issue with Wave 4 is I was very much looking forward to 32-c and believe ffg went overboard with its pricing. Granted, it's in line with across-the-board coordinate curtailing but definitely the most EXTREME example thereof

23 hours ago, Wazat said:

Leia and the transport are helping Resistance too. That transport is exactly what that faction needed (a cheap crew carrier and lots of new crew), and I love my Ello Asty blue tallon + bb-8 shenanigans. Scavenged YT still needs lots of work; it's too pricey for what it ends up doing IMO.

Resistance Leia definitely doesn’t work that way with Ello. Ello’s Ability only treats the talons as white it does not actually decrease their difficulty.

1 minute ago, Caduceus01 said:

Resistance Leia definitely doesn’t work that way with Ello. Ello’s Ability only treats the talons as white it does not actually decrease their difficulty.

Unfortunately it's still being argued in the forums and there's no "definitely" about it. Needs FFG's take to become definite. For my own purposes, I'm very much in the camp of "it works". I've heard lots of arguments for and against, and gone through the rules extensively for my own conclusions. The only thing that will change my mind now is an official ruling. That will help get anyone on board with a single answer, whichever side that favors. Until then I'm not keen to discuss it further -- I'm really tired of hashing it out.

I get that both sides are pretty passionate about their interpretations, but let's please don't argue about it here -- we have the rules forum for that and I don't want to hijack this thread with 10-page a rules fight (which is how these rules fights tend to go).

Update: So far responses have largely been positive. Around 2/3 feel the changes were good or great, with another 1/3 consisting of other responses (torn, indifferent, uncertain, and one very negative reaction). This isn't a very scientific survey -- not everyone checks the wiki or this thread -- but for what it's worth, it's mostly encouraging.

Half way through the month and we have 93 votes. Thank you everyone who has been participating!

If you'd like to talk about the fleet you're most happy got nerfed or buffed, or you're not so happy with one of the changes, or you're exploring new ideas with the wave 4 ships, please tell us about it here!

I wrote mostly good - it brought into line the most egregious bonkers things out there, and made Leia a good option not a mandatory requirement.

At the same time, scum are still languishing at the bottom. And I like them. Barely used them over it. I may try some of their new list types that have cropped up?

In this, the final week, I want to thank everyone who has voted, and also encourage anyone who hasn't got their vote in to do so now.

And! It's time to begin scheming a new poll. Any ideas?

We ended with exactly 150 votes! Thanks, everyone!

I'll try to have the next vote set up today.